Meeting will happen in #d9readiness on drupal.slack.com.
mikelutz |
Its me, It’s me, I’m here, I’m here, Hi how are you? I’m here Mike! Hello! |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
Gábor, Drupal 9 coordinator |
tedbow |
Ted, Drupal core contributor |
xjm |
:wave: |
shaal |
Ofer, Drupal-Rector, Umami demo |
martin |
martin, just trying to be helpful. |
hestenet (he/him) |
Tim from the DA - located in Portland |
dan2k3k4 |
Dan, on a train in Switzerland :smile: (edited) |
drumm |
Neil, Drupal Association, Brooklyn NY |
dww |
Derek |
webchick |
webchick, Vancouver, Canada |
greg.1.anderson |
Greg, catching up |
heddn |
Lucas, following along from home |
catch |
Nat from the UK. |
lendude |
Len, lurking |
larowlan |
Lee, late, timezones |
vuil |
I have to follow the D9 updates.Ilcho Vuchkov, contributor to Drupal modules.Happy holiday to all Bulgarians! :flag-bg: |
wimleers (he/him) |
:wave: catching up after the fact |
mikelutz |
I would like to discuss SF5 compatibility in 9.0 and 9.1. I realize it’s not a priority for beta, but I would like to have some discussions about timing, deprecations, and general thoughts on the process. |
xjm |
Update on beta! |
hestenet (he/him) |
Update on Drupal.org semver blockers for core (per @drumm) . (short version: no more blockers :tada: ) (edited) |
mikelutz |
I’m also wondering if there are any D9 marketing messages that we should coordinate emphasizing as we come into conference season and have D9 related presentations. |
hestenet (he/him) |
@mikelutz I think our ED Heather and Gabor have talked the tiniest bit about that - I know we have a marketing/pr consultant helping with the wider effort - but it would be good to tie that in with presentations people are giving. (edited) |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
@hestenet (he/him) let’s leave the discussion for threads not here |
tedbow |
Drupal core blockers for drupal.org semver. |
dan2k3k4 |
So Switzerland enforces all events being cancelled with 1000+ members (and also cancels a lot smaller events)... how is coronavirus going to effect upcoming camps and therefore effect possible sprinting days for D9? e.g. DrupalCamp London, DevDays Ghent...I mean - do we plan a backup of doing remote sprints during those allocated camps if they were cancelled?Plus I assume some people might want to actively avoid travelling to camps so they may want to still participate remotely if they can :slightly_smiling_face:I've just thrown an idea into Amazee Slack... that maybe Amazee can help "sponsor" Zoom sessions by providing a Zoom ID for people to use if they need capacity (since free accounts only last ~30 minutes and maximum 20 guests I believe). Maybe the idea gets traction :smile: (edited) |
xjm |
Start a D10 readiness initiative the day 9.0.0 (or RC1 or whatever) ships |
webchick |
There seems to be confusion out there as to whether or not people can move directly from 7 -> 9 or whether they need to move 7 -> 8 -> 9. I suspect https://www.drupal.org/about/9/migrate-7-to-8-to-9 is the culprit, which was written at least a year ago AFAIK when an interim step to D8 would get you more "bang for your buck." It probably makes a lot less sense now.TL;DR: Can we have a topic about 7 => 9 migrations, whether we document that as an official valid way to do it, and if so where? |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
I think all the topics were covered, thanks all! |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
@xjm proposed this |
xjm |
So TLDR, we are planning to announce today or tomorrow that we'll extend the beta1 deadline for a June release to March 13. So the target window will be the week of March 16 and we will definitively announce that week, to a wider audience, whether June or August is the planned release date. |
xjm |
There's a post draft with a call-to-action for outstanding items in https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_8DNw9gqh0cfNJxz_evtUUhd7cw8FdX-dZGg... |
xjm |
Practically speaking, I'd say we're at as high as a ≈40% chance that we could complete the outstanding blockers by March 13. A number of long-running things landed in the past week, deprecation removals and dependency updates are almost done, etc. |
xjm |
It's mostly down to the D9 theme work, the post-update removal and miscellaneous upgrade path criticals, and the DB requirement issues |
xjm |
Anything folks can do to accelerate those issues is appreciated |
berdir |
and some infrastructure issues I think :slightly_smiling_face: |
xjm |
Right, those are the DB req things I was mentioning :slightly_smiling_face: |
heddn |
Folks have put in a lot of effort. Its nice to see there is some chance at still landing on June |
xjm |
(They're ready to start turning semver for contrib on this week once we release 8.8.3) |
berdir |
ah. sounds great to me, should still give us plenty of time to finish up a stable release, still going to be a challenge but might be doable :slightly_smiling_face: |
berdir |
somehow we always need a looming deadline to really progress, but I guess that is a very human thing ;) |
xjm |
Yep totally :slightly_smiling_face: Although we're really seeing dividends of a year's work here too |
xjm |
And as we narrow the list, more people are available to work on the last things :slightly_smiling_face: |
berdir |
that's true, a ton of work went into getting the deprecation stuff cleaned up enough to properly remove it and so on |
mikelutz |
I haven’t joined in the deprecation removal stuff much due to time, but I’ve started dedicating time to core work again. I was picking at SF5 compatibility stuff, but I can put that off until after beta if there’s a solid list of what still needs to be done for beta. |
xjm |
There is indeed! The meta and tagged issue list should both be up to date |
xjm |
(And the post draft summarizes the areas that need work) (edited) |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
@mikelutz #3079680: [META] Requirements for tagging Drupal 9.0.0-beta1 |
catch |
I tried to surface the remaining sub-issues as much as possible on that one, so you can see more-or-less the full list of issues that are left there. |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
both remaining deprecated API use issues are currently RTBC :suspense: (edited) |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
@mikelutz proposed this |
xjm |
The closer we are to SF5 support as of 9.0, the better. Obviously once beta1 ships some of the issues will have to be 9.1, but others might be backportable during beta depending on the change. |
mikelutz |
This stuff doesn’t really block beta, but I did want to kind of discuss when we wanted to do this stuff. After what we went through in Drupal 8 trying to get SF4 ready at the last minute, I’d prefer to be SF5 compatible from the get go, and then fix new issues as they come along rather than trying to do it all late in the cycle. |
mikelutz |
I’ve been trying to push through some of the easy SF4 deprecations, but some of them will require us to deprecated things ourselves, so those may be forced to be pushed back to 9.1 |
mikelutz |
So maybe SF5 compatibility is a alpha blocker for 9.1? |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
@mikelutz are BC changes required by either of those things? |
mikelutz |
I don’t think so. The goal is to run on SF4 with no symfony deprecations suppressed, while running on SF5 with the SF5 deprecations that are unfixable on SF4 suppressed, much like we did with D8 and SF 3 and 4. |
mikelutz |
So we should be able to make backwards compatible changes in D9 with our own deprecations to do that, then remove the BC layers in D10, just like we are doing now. |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
ok if that is the case, great |
mikelutz |
My main goal is to get to that point early, and then regularly test against SF5 releases and fix new issues as they come during the whole D9 cycle, and not just wait until we are getting ready for D10. |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
then it is indeed not beta blocking :slightly_smiling_face: |
xjm |
@mikelutz Minor releases do not have blockers |
xjm |
So there's no such thing as a "9.1 alpha blocker" |
xjm |
(Because minor releases are shipped on a fixed schedule, train leaving the station, etc.) |
berdir |
could possibly add some noise to contrib testing/deprecation checking, but I guess that can't be avoided. in our project we have symfony event dispatcher 4.x thanks to search_api_solr and that adds a ton of extra warnings in upgrade_status :wink: |
mikelutz |
Right, those are timed, so wrong phrasing. I suppose that would be an initiative goal/roadmap, assuming we rename the D9 readiness initiative to the ’Next major version initiative” @xjm :slightly_smiling_face: |
xjm |
Or just bootstrap "Drupal 10 readiness" the day 9.0.0 ships :stuck_out_tongue: |
xjm |
Which, honestly, we should do given that we've got like 2 years to accomplish mega technical debt for D10 |
xjm |
Actually I'm going to totally recommend that to my manager as a place we should make some ongoing investment |
mikelutz |
No, I do think Drupal 10 readiness starts the day D9 is released, (if it hasn’t already started) |
mikelutz |
But either way, 9.1 alpha makes sense as a goal to have SF5-latest compatibility, I think. |
berdir |
I think one side effect of trying to do it in 9.0 is that we're trying to backport anything that affects our own API at least back to 8.9, for example the app.root changes (discussed that with @xjm a while ago). we won't have that requirement for 9.1, so in some ways, things will also be easier then. but at the same time, as mentioned before, especially that would be very good to resolve asap as it adds a ton of suppressed deprecation messages |
xjm |
Yeah 9.1.x opens when beta1 is tagged, so we can start landing 9.1.x things during the beta phase before 9.0.0. |
mikelutz |
We can always decide on an individual issue how far back we want to back port it too, Going through them some make sense to go back to 8.9, others expose new deprecations that really should stay in 9.1 |
berdir |
@mikelutz yeah, the question is about whether dealing with the SF deprecations will require us to new deprecations of our own and my understanding is that we would want to have those backported if at all possible. so e.g. for the app.root stuff, we would want to at least backport the new services so that modules can be compatible with 8.9 and 9.0 without deprecation messages (edited) |
alexpott |
@mikelutz @berdir I’ve tidied up #3074585: [Symfony 5] Replace app.root and site.path string services with container parameters - think it is pretty ready now. |
mikelutz |
@berdir we can backport the app.root stuff easily enough, but most of the deprecations we will need to add to be SF5 compatible will require at least SF4, so we won’t be able to backport them to 8.9. (We tried to fix anything we could fix in 8.8 already, the app.root stuff just got a bit stuck trying to decide the best way to go, but it was fixable in D8) |
mikelutz |
The mime type guessers and event stuff will really not be backportable to 8, and we may want to just leave it in 9.1 to avoid muddying the deprecation waters in 9.0. |
mikelutz |
@alexpott I definitely like going the parameter route better if you’ve solved all the issues with it. |
mikelutz |
I’ll give it a +1, but since It looks to be based off my patch in #3074585: [Symfony 5] Replace app.root and site.path string services with container parameters#comment-13261603 I’ll let someone else RTBC |
alexpott |
@mikelutz I realised the way we initialize the container in the kernel gave as the ability to set the parameters dynamically. |
mikelutz |
@alexpott yup, and I am trying to figure out why I didn’t think to do that. I may have just been trying to avoid touching the bootstrap code as much as possible. |
alexpott |
@mikelutz I only realised while stepping through container compilation when trying to work how to make Symfony’s expression language work :slightly_smiling_face: |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
@webchick raised this |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
this seems to be coming from https://www.drupal.org/about/9/migrate-7-to-8-to-9 |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
which I think we worked on with @hestenet (he/him) et al |
webchick |
Yes, according to the Migrate maintainers, 7 to 9 is a valid approach. (I've been testing it locally, and seems to be the case.) |
webchick |
But I can't point anywhere on D.o to docs which tell anyone this. Just side-slack discussions |
catch |
You can do either, but more modules are available for 8.x at the moment, and also it has a release. |
webchick |
Yes, though its EOL is ticking along the same rate as D7 |
xjm |
Yes, 7 to 9 should theoretically just work, but migrating to 8 first is also a totally smart thing to do ATM since it's the best way to ensure readiness |
webchick |
So if you're doing a big "something huge redesign-y to justify the cost of a migration" it might make more sense to target D9 for that. |
catch |
Once 9.x is out, you can either update your 8.x site that you already migrated into, or you can update your in-development site to 9.x and migrate into it. |
berdir |
yeah, I think the important message that we wanted to communicate is that you should not wait |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
Drupal 9 even has a complete Drupal 6 to 9 migration path, just saying :stuck_out_tongue: (edited) |
webchick |
Indeed :D |
webchick |
I guess I worry that from an end user POV, that sounds like doubling the work. (WE know it's not, it's something like 1.2x the work, but it's still more) |
heddn |
I think the idea is that you don't have anything "stopping" from upgrading to D8 and you are encouraged to upgrade now. But D9 upgrade support is 100% possible. |
webchick |
So it would be great if we could at least state that it is possible, in a somewhat credible way, even if our official recommendation is to move to D8 first. |
berdir |
So if you're doing a big "something huge redesign-y to justify the cost of a migration" it might make more sense to target D9 for that.exactly not that. we want people to move to D8 now and not wait until D9, as it gives them more them to do that now and test that migration. Unless they add modules that aren't going to be D9 compatible, but most should be soon enough |
webchick |
We WANT them to do that yes. Will they do that? Probably not. :wink: Anyone who was gonna move to D7 => D8 probably has by now. |
berdir |
what @heddn said |
xjm |
@webchick Also since the D7 upgrade is 90% the work, we should just say tht |
webchick |
Yes, we should definitely say that too. |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
I don’t know if I should touch that page, it was worked on by DA marketing folks back in the day too, @hestenet (he/him)? |
hestenet (he/him) |
For the moment I'd really welcome any edits. Although we are planning an overhaul with a consultant we're working with to come in a few weeks. |
hestenet (he/him) |
I can certainly make an initial change right now. |
webchick |
So I thikn all we literally need is like |
webchick |
"We recommend migrating to Drupal 8 prior to the release of Drupal 9."..."While Drupal 7 => 9 migrations are supported, we recommend migrating to Drupal 8 prior to the release of Drupal 9." |
webchick |
or similar |
webchick |
And maybe an additional bullet on the benefits of "90% of your upgrade is done already between 7 and 8, so you need only worry about the small differences between 8 and 9 when the time comes" |
berdir |
yeah. possibly even for a bit after the D9 release until all the modules you want to use have a D9 compatible release out but that's a detail :slightly_smiling_face: |
webchick |
Alternately, if we don't want to soften that message, another "box" like we have for "What if I want to stay on Drupal 7?" for "Can I move directly from D7 to D9?" "Yes, but moving to Drupal 8 first will simplify migration to Drupal 9" |
webchick |
@hestenet (he/him) should I just hack at the text or would you like to take the lead? :slightly_smiling_face: |
hestenet (he/him) |
I just saved a couple changes. |
hestenet (he/him) |
But go ahead and refresh and keep hacking if you like. |
webchick |
Oh that looks great! |
xjm |
Err I tried to edit the page but the content is not there; must be a placed block or something |
xjm |
Maybe we could plop the text in a gdoc for refinement |
hestenet (he/him) |
It's a panels pane, so the 'customize this page link' at the bottom. But a GDOC is not a bad idea. |
mikelutz |
It would really be nice to have some focus group numbers to understand how people take the messaging here. The ‘move to 8 now’ message was designed to encourage people not to wait, but at the point that people take that to mean they have to migrate twice in a row and suddenly start looking at alternative platforms where they can migrate to once, then the messaging has negative value. |
mikelutz |
Practically and honestly, whether people move from 7 to 8 or 9 now really depends on the contrib modules they need and whether they are ready, but anyone starting the process of an upgrade now with a 6-9 month turnaround should plan to release on D9 even if development starts against D8. |
mikelutz |
But I don’t want to explain that to anybody in a marketing sense. |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
Yeah starting on Drupal 9 now is “apply these 55 patches against these 30 contributed modules and pray it holds together” (edited) |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
starting after Drupal 9 came out will be “apply these 32 patches against these 19 contributed modules and pray it holds together” |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
@xjm raised this |
xjm |
So we deferred some massive technical debt to D10 |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
Sounds like a very good idea given that Drupal 10 is planned to be release 2 years after Drupal 9 :slightly_smiling_face: |
xjm |
jQuery UI components, CKEditor 5, etc., plus PHP 8, SF 5 or even 6, etc. |
xjm |
I think we can start adding "9.1.x followups" to our D9 readiness meetings as we transition to beta, and just roll over to a new initiative as the core parts of D9 readiness wrap up. We can probably go back to bi-weekly meetings though at that point. :slightly_smiling_face: |
xjm |
We also will have the whole D9 process fresh in our minds, so we can file a (postponed) D10 meta issue based on the D9 one and make the adjustments from our lessons learned (edited) |
xjm |
I'm even adding a card to JIRA for myself for that now :stuck_out_tongue: |
mikelutz |
I would love a big D9 retro meeting sometime this fall, Maybe DCEur, where we can see what we can improve for D10 |
xjm |
Retros make me sad because I'm never able to attend them, but a good idea nonetheless. Maybe we could do it as a Slack meeting instead of an in-person one. |
mikelutz |
That’s fair. I would definitely like it to be inclusive. |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
@mikelutz raised this |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
I think the developing tagline some of us have been using is “The easiest major version upgrade in a decade” (which assumes Drupal 8 to start with mind you) |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
There will not be a Drupal 9 logo, the DA is focusing on getting rid of version based branding, so the 8 logo will be phased out AFAIK |
hestenet (he/him) |
Correct - we're reviewing concepts for the evergreen logo starting on Friday (had initial interview with designers about two weeks ago ish) |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
for clarity the evergreen logo will not replace the Druplicon and will not replace the wordmark, right @hestenet (he/him)? |
mikelutz |
My presentation is supposed to be an honest look at the “gotcha’s” that people might run into while upgrading. I want to give that information to developers so that upgrades ARE easy, but I don’t want to make it sound like the upgrade isn’t going to be easy or conflict with that message, so I’m going to have to have a bit of a balancing act going on. (edited) |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
@mikelutz I have this steps rundown for what you need to do to update to Drupal 9 and will explain the blue stuff is all done on Drupal 8 (except very edge cases), so you have a fully running Drupal 8 site at the end of the blue and then just switch out core |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
Screenshot 2020-03-02 at 20.46.56.png |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
@mikelutz so its definitely a bunch of stuff to do but you are doing it to make your site better and you still have a working site |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
so again piecing apart the actual Drupal 9 upgrade from what’s not :slightly_smiling_face: |
mikelutz |
That’s a good breakdown. So a focus on the fact that you can do all of this stuff right now in D8 without waiting for D9 to come out. |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
well, most things :slightly_smiling_face: some modules will have a dedicated 9.x only branch, but that is hard to foretell, it looks like most can just update and have a multicore branch |
wimleers (he/him) |
“The easiest major version upgrade in a decade”I like this :smile: |
mikelutz |
That might be fair, somewhere else in this meeting we discussed not using the word ‘easy’ though. |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
That was also me. I think in a relative form it is ok. We need to be able to express that this one will take less work than before. |
mikelutz |
But I wonder semantically and psychologically if ‘less work’ is better than ‘easier’ |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
I mean it's easier to build a condo than a skyscraper but both are quite hard :) |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
Compared to let's say a shed :) |
mikelutz |
I feel (as a native english speaker) that ‘less work’ relates to effort, while ‘easier’ relates to ability. |
mikelutz |
I for example, find it easier to build websites than to make new friends. I don’t think that’s the same for everyone. :-) |
mikelutz |
but making friends is definitly less work than building a website, even if it’s harder for me. :stuck_out_tongue: |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
Makes sense. I am neither a marketing person nor a native speaker :) so revisions would be welcome |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
@dan2k3k4 raised this |
mikelutz |
This one does worry me a bit. |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
I think there was some communication on the London site, looking now :slightly_smiling_face: |
hestenet (he/him) |
DA will have a statement out shortly about DrupalCon Minneapolis. |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
MidCamp has https://www.midcamp.org/2020/article/psa-midcamp-and-coronavirus |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
London posted https://twitter.com/DrupalCampLDN/status/1233379905573969920?s=20 |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
(it is not posted on their site for some reason) |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
Talked to @aburrows just now and they will put it on the homepage too |
mikelutz |
Tough to predict what the situation will be in May or September. |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
@aburrows put it up on the London site now |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
Screenshot 2020-03-02 at 21.00.40.png |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
I am personally planning to still attend London |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
@dan2k3k4 makes a good point that some people will choose not to attend for their own safety |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
(especially if they have other conditions and are at bigger risk) |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
I think this is a good reminder to try to include people not at the event in contribution activities at the event (which BTW I think is generally a good idea) |
xjm |
It would be good to get a statement from the DDD team since that event is going to be key for D9 readiness |
xjm |
Can anyone escalate to them for their plans? |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
They’ve been discussing it and monitoring the situation ATM, will push it more to make a statement :slightly_smiling_face: |
mglaman |
:grimacing: yeah ^ I plan on still going, but paid a pretty penny for my flight |
aburrows |
adding more atm to the page |
aburrows |
https://drupalcamp.london/event/coronavirus-update |
heddn |
@aburrows there's still mention of midcamp in your copy/pasta ^ |
aburrows |
thanks for spotting it :slightly_smiling_face: |
aburrows |
@heddn++ |
aburrows |
@Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) ++ |
dan2k3k4 |
Just a quick update: so from Amazee side - we have the Pro License for Zoom for most (all?) of our employees, along with 1x webinar license.A Meeting allows up to 100 people... however it means everyone can talk :smile: so at that size it can be messy but it would be good for smaller sprints, plus we could potentially provide multiple meetings.A Webinar allows up to 100 people (well the license we have is capped at that), and webinars have more control. Only hosts can talk / show video - and you have to manually add talk ability to attendees.https://zoom.us/pricingIt's not set-in-stone whether we (Amazee) can sponsor/help out :smile: but I believe the answer is more towards the "potentially yes" (edited) |
dan2k3k4 |
That's in relation to providing/sponsoring/enabling more remote collaboration^ for those who can't attend (whether they choose to or whether they just can't fly out of their own country). |
dan2k3k4 |
With Webinar - people have to register with an email... and it's possible to approve registrations case-by-case (or remove some registrations after).So potentially - if you have one main room you want to give a live stream, with Q&A functionality, then you could screen registered emails against emails who registered to the camp in question (e.g. DCL). Thus allowing those who paid to potentially still "attend" virtually.Just throwing these ideas out there :slightly_smiling_face:Although I've never tried Twitch or other live streaming services... I'm sure those provide Q&A too and perhaps cost less than Zoom... but well since a lot of use Zoom already for work :smile: (edited) |
xjm |
We actually prefer Slack meetings over voice chat, on purpose, because they're more accessible to people from all different timezones, etc., and are their own meeting minutes. |
xjm |
Scheduling a meeting so that everyone from Australia to India to Europe to the West Coast can attend is... kind of impossible. The semi-synchronous Slack meetings address that really well. (edited) |
xjm |
They're also much easier for people to add in their workdays and have lower fatigue for participants |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
well, this is for contribution activities at events especially with people staying home due to covid-19.. I personally prefer Slack for that too, but I know not everyone does (edited) |
dan2k3k4 |
Yeah the suggestion is more for replacing adding onto sessions/activities at events which are scheduled at specific times... either to open it up more and allow people to join the talks remotely or to open up remote "sprinting" opportunities (edited) |
dan2k3k4 |
And the Webinar option is more for people who paid to attend a camp - and I've helped organise camps before so I know how hard it would be to refund if you're already slightly out-of-pocket since you didn't have enough sponsors to cover the full price of venue/food... so I'm just suggesting a way to offer some "exclusivity" towards those who paid so they could still "attend" without getting the full refund of their ticket (as well that money would have been used to foot the bill in renting the place and that might be non-refundable...) |
xjm |
At sprints, the background noise is a big problem for remote attendees |
xjm |
That said, for sessions, I could see it as a sort of lightweight livestream option |
xjm |
There's also the "sacrificial laptop" problem for a room that doesn't already have a conferencing A/V setup |
xjm |
One person at the table has to run the hangout and can't type because the keystrokes overpower the participants' voices because of the inverse square law |
xjm |
I've taken two laptops with me before because of that :stuck_out_tongue: |
xjm |
There's an issue IMO with MidCamp's text about "Don't attend if you've been diagnosed with COVID-19." Most people in the US can't even be tested for it because the CDC is still very short on testing kits and has only been testing people who traveled to China themselves. |
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) |
I don’t think any countries have adequate testing capability ATM. |
xjm |
Overall it's a good resource; just that point in particular should mention any flu-like symptoms :slightly_smiling_face: |
heddn |
Costa Rica has sufficient to get results in 24-48 hours I saw in the news today. |
dan2k3k4 |
Perhaps a page about how to possibly setup remote sessions/remote sprints could be useful? If it's done in advance, organisers or even some attendees could help volunteer to bring equipment if needed.---At work we have these 360-degree mics Jabra Speak 410 :https://www.jabra.com/business/speakerphones/jabra-speak-series/jabra-sp... can be useful and you don't get much background noise, just the people speaking (around a table for instance). However we don't have any people at the office using mechanical keyboards :slightly_smiling_face: and I'm sure the mic would pickup that if people used those close to it.---But yeah, I suppose if someone is not attending a camp, then that could mean they're stuck in their own country which could be many timezones ahead or behind the camp timezone. Therefore it could be difficult for them to virtually attend... :thinking_face: still an option to try to accomodate them is always nicer than nothing :smile: (edited) |
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Gábor HojtsyAttempting to fix markup errors between 5 and 6
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Gábor HojtsyDon't know how those table tags were missing. The messages are there.
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Gábor Hojtsy