Drupal 10 readiness meeting / 31 August 2020 [#3166101]

Meeting will happen in #d10readiness on drupal.slack.com.

Hello and welcome to this Drupal 10 readiness meeting!

This meeting:
➤ Is for core and contributed project developers as well as people who have integrations and services related to core. Site developers who want to stay in the know to keep up-to-date for the easiest Drupal 10 upgrade of their sites are also welcome.
➤ Usually happens every other Monday at 18:00 UTC.
➤ Is done over chat.
➤ Happens in threads, which you can follow to be notified of new replies even if you don’t comment in the thread. You may also join the meeting later and participate asynchronously!
➤ Has a public agenda anyone can add to: `https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3166101`
➤ *Transcript will be exported and posted* to the agenda issue. For anonymous comments, start with a :bust_in_silhouette: emoji. To take a comment or thread off the record, start with a :no_entry_sign: emoji.

0️⃣ Who is here today? Comment in the thread below to introduce yourself.

fathershawn	Hi :wave: (edited)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	hi, Gábor from Hungary, luckily survived a downburst in the area where I live just 2 days ago, still mentally recovering…
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Kristen, Coarsegold, CA, USA, monitoring too many wildfires :( but currently safe and battling sciatica and it's winning (edited)
tedbow	Ted , Ithaca, NY, USA, no recent natural disasters
andypost	Hi, Andy catching last day of summer
shaal	Ofer Shaal, Florida :sunglasses: :hurricane:
hansa11	Hansa, India :slightly_smiling_face:
catch	Nat, joining late.
larowlan	Lee, late. What is a downburst Gabor?
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	https://www.weather.gov/ffc/dburst
jungle	Jungle, late
longwave	Dave, UK, catching up
pratik_kamble	Pratik, Pune India

1️⃣ Do you have suggested topics you are looking to discuss? Post in this thread and we’ll open threads for them as appropriate.

Kristen Pol (she/her)	This came out of our discussion on getting more modules ready for Drupal 9:#3168047: Commit Project Update Bot patches to under-maintained projects for Drupal 9 compatibility
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Big picture status update on overall progress and priorities would be nice:#3118143: [meta] Release Drupal 10 on December 14... or 15... 2022
andypost	Hi wanted to raise PHP 8 (last beta in few days)So would be great to update composer dependencies #3157296: Upgrade dependencies prior to 9.1.0

2️⃣ Implications of ckeditor 5 and how do we get progress on it

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	as proposed by @larowlan
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	issue is #2966864: Add optional support for CKEditor 5 in D9 so we can remove CKE 4 from Drupal 10
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	we had a meeting with two people from the ckeditor team last week to discuss options
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	problems include but not limited toiframe embedding mode that we use not being available (causes issues with the realness of the editing experience, as your editing will be in the style of the backend and not frontend)unknown HTML is not supported and is planned for later next year, this could cause various problems with copy-pasting from word, etc.there is currently no support for dynamic built editors where you have a UI to compose editor features like Drupal’s text format UI(edited)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	was trying to find the meeting notes doc, but not in either of my emails… maybe @catch or @wimleers (he/him) or @lauriii can help find it
mirom	#2 is issue for every editor with virtual dom approach isn't it?
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@mirom yeah
larowlan	My thoughts are we probably want to start with a ckeditor5 alongside the existing ckeditor one?
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	That is the only way in Drupal 9 yeah.
larowlan	do you think we should start that in contrib?
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Ideally yes :)
larowlan	someone has the namespace already https://www.drupal.org/project/ckeditor5
larowlan	@Taran2L ping re ^ - would you be willing to add others to that project with a view to experimenting on ckeditor5 in d9 for inclusion in core in d10?
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	sent @Taran2L an email :slightly_smiling_face:
lauriii	Notes from the meeting with CKEditor maintainers https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WTtkX_T4heDmo_4f_sqU-sU1fLD65WAKjl4e...

3️⃣ Dealing with unmaintained projects vs. major compatibility

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Proposed by @Kristen Pol (she/her). This is already a problem with Drupal 9 compatibility, see #3168047: Commit Project Update Bot patches to under-maintained projects for Drupal 9 compatibility but will also cause problems with Drupal 10 soon enough.
Kristen Pol (she/her)	The original thread is here for reference: https://drupal.slack.com/archives/CDDD98AMN/p1598628203033700?thread_ts=...
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I think its really hard to auto-commit things to projects in terms of a process. One would also need to auto-release.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	And we don’t know what else is on the branch, which branch we should even change, etc.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I don’t think that is possible without humans.
Kristen Pol (she/her)	My original suggestions was humans :)
Kristen Pol (she/her)	https://drupal.slack.com/archives/CDDD98AMN/p1598639235036200?thread_ts=...
tedbow	I wonder if we could write a script that would determine which projectsonly need the info.yml changethere is already an. issue posted with this change.there is no comment by a maintainer on that issue(so they maybe don’t know)there is no commit on the most recent 8.x branch since the last release.then could we email all these maintainers and explain the situation. That they just need 1 commit and a new release
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Sounds fantastic
Kristen Pol (she/her)	This was my other most relevant comment from the other thread:Perhaps there are two approaches: 1) if there are no other changes in the dev branch, they commit the one line change and create a release, or 2) if there are changes that aren't in a release, they commit the one line change and edit the Drupal 9 plan field explaining the dev version is compatible
andypost	In practice it needs more then info file changes, and reviewers because lots of contrib has no tests
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Yeah we cannot be sure the bot/rector/phpstan found all the issues.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	So ideally humans would test it yeah.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	But humans would also not test all possible code paths, maybe not even all the common ones.
fathershawn	Still, @tedbow idea is a good start
tedbow	thats true but also if there is issue from https://www.drupal.org/u/project-update-bot with just the info.yml at least we know that Upgrade Status was run.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	yup
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	emailing the select maintainers would indeed be the best idea
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	for a first step :slightly_smiling_face:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	that would help many of them realize things :smile:
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Too bad there wasn't a way to have an experimental branch that was available to composer yet not marked as an official release or the main dev branch.Then people could use at their own risk (edited)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I can look into writing that script
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	based on @tedbow’s idea
tedbow	@Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) another check might be that there haven’t been commits since the rector bot patch. If we want to target only the maintainers with the 1 commit then release situation
andypost	@Kristen Pol (she/her) as workaround a fork or custom packagist (
tedbow	yeah you could always clone on github or gitlab and just point your composer.json to the vcs type repo
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Right. But was thinking it would be nice for a way that each site didn't have to duplicate work
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Actually, maybe that would be acceptable. One github account with them forked?
Kristen Pol (she/her)	People could all point to the one forked repo
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Ideally, they could point to a drupal.org repo but maybe second best is pointing at a different repo from a trusted person/entity
Kristen Pol (she/her)	If it's too problematic committing on d.o
tedbow	it seems like it would first be best to try to get as many modules to make the 1 commit and release before we start encouraging that workflow.seems it would just lead to ongoing development on the github
Kristen Pol (she/her)	I'm certainly 1000% behind doing it the "real" way :)
andypost	Btw it just needs to enable forks, d-org infra provides it
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@andypost so you would go depend on the issue fork’s repo then?
andypost	Yes, IMO it's better then forks on GitHub
andypost	Did not check yet current state of merge requests but recall it was enabled for all projects
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Per @hestenet (he/him), I thought they were still having people opt-in
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Sorry, that was for core issues
andypost	#3152637: Opt-in to the Drupal.org Issue Forks and Merge Requests beta the related issue about forks
tedbow	so you still have to opt in, correct? And the maintainer would have to do this, correct?seems like if we are going to ask the maintainer to take time to do something it would be better to ask for the 1 commit and a release.
larowlan	There's an existing composer solution in that thread. I think we should favour that and continue to contact maintainers to offer support
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@drumm now we have an up to date list of 1.9k projects that only need an info file change and have a patch generated for that at https://dev.acquia.com/drupal9/deprecation_status?result=Only%20info.yml... — how do we go about sending them a notification email? (As per above) We can draft the email text in an issue. Can you then take the project list (with potential replacement patterns in the email text for their issue link) and have a way to send 1.9k emails? :slightly_smiling_face:
drumm	The email list we use for the core major release information would be appropriate, I can make a group within that.
drumm	(I don’t actually remember sending an email to contrib maintainers around 9.1.x or 9.0.x. - I see I did for 9.0.0. And 9.1.0 hasn’t happened yet.) (edited)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Are you fine with a csv list of project names and issue links and the email template with the placeholder where the issue link goes? @drumm?
drumm	Yes, and you can use placeholders for maintainer username & project names. The way I’ve been doing these is one email to each maintainer, so one email might have information about multiple projects they maintain.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Ah wow, ok
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@drumm what would be a natural queue to put this issue where we discuss the email text?
drumm	I suppose infrastructure
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@drumm @tedbow @Kristen Pol (she/her) ok I opened https://www.drupal.org/project/infrastructure/issues/316916 with a rough first draft template
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	will produce the list of projects and hope @tedbow can match up the list of issues(?)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	or I will script matching those up, but I think @tedbow’s bot scripts probably already do that and just need to be filtered to the list of projects at hand(?)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	posted the list of 1945 projects at #3169163: Send email to project owners with projects near Drupal 9 compatibility#comment-13812452
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Thanks!

4️⃣ PHP 8 last beta is released in a few days, implications for us

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@andypost proposes we look at #3157296: Upgrade dependencies prior to 9.1.0
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I assume to improve PHP 8 compatibility? :slightly_smiling_face: Are we tracking which ones would improve that?
andypost	Yes, the parent issue [#3109885]Also 2 related updates to phpunit and composer
andypost	Lots of dependencies already fixed php8 support and got new releases
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Maybe @longwave or @jungle have some capacity to help review #3157296: Upgrade dependencies prior to 9.1.0 so we get more PHP 8 compatible? :slightly_smiling_face:
andypost	There's mostly a question of commuter's feedback because @alexpott said to not split updates in #3163133: Upgrade composer/composer and phpspec/prophecy dependencies to support PHP 8.0#comment-13774847

5️⃣ Update on big picture progress on Drupal 10

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	#3118143: [meta] Release Drupal 10 on December 14... or 15... 2022 is the issue and @Kristen Pol (she/her) proposed the topic
Kristen Pol (she/her)	This would be a nice one for each meeting since it's hard to keep track of all the moving parts :)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I believe the biggest things currently are CKEditor (covered in topic 2️⃣ ), PHP 8 (see topic 4️⃣ ), Symfony 5/6 compatibility (not yet mentioned, so let’s discuss here).
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	#3055180: [META] Symfony 5 compatibility is quite close, down to a mime type guesser issue and mink test dependencies being incompatible
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	then there is #3161889: [META] Symfony 6 compatibility which @catch was single-handedly dealing with until a month ago, so more hands there would be very welcome
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	So Symfony 5 (theoretic) compatibility is close, Symfony 6 needs a lot more work.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Both need help :slightly_smiling_face:
andypost	Looks the most disruptive patch here is #3161983: [Symfony 6] Update EventDispatcherInterface type hints in constructors
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@mikelutz was a champion of Symfony 4 support, not sure if he has capacity to help with 5 and/or 6
mikelutz	I would certainly like to. I know $work hasn’t left me as much time for core development recently as I would have liked.
longwave	i have tried to help where i can with the SF5 issues, will have a look at the SF6 ones soon
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@longwave woot, thanks :slightly_smiling_face:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@mikelutz understandable :slightly_smiling_face: