Drupal 10 readiness meeting / 13 September 2021 [#3233079]

Meeting will happen in #d10readiness on drupal.slack.com.

Hello and welcome to this Drupal 10 readiness meeting!

This meeting:
➤ Is for core and contributed project developers as well as people who have integrations and services related to core. Site developers who want to stay in the know to keep up-to-date for the easiest Drupal 10 upgrade of their sites are also welcome.
➤ Usually happens every other Monday at 18:00 UTC.
➤ Is done over chat.
➤ Happens in threads, which you can follow to be notified of new replies even if you don’t comment in the thread. You may also join the meeting later and participate asynchronously!
➤ Has a public agenda anyone can add to: `https://www.drupal.org/project/drupal/issues/3233079`
➤ *Transcript will be exported and posted* to the agenda issue. For anonymous comments, start with a :bust_in_silhouette: emoji. To take a comment or thread off the record, start with a :no_entry_sign: emoji.

0️⃣ Who is here today? Comment in the thread below to introduce yourself.

xjm	:wave: xjm, core release manager
shaal	:blob_wave: Ofer Shaal, Umami, DrupalPod
Ilcho Vuchkov (vuil)	Ilcho, Bulgaria :flag-bg: EU :flag-eu:
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Gábor. Drupal 10 coordinator
catch	Nat from the UK.
larowlan	Lee, AU
longwave	Dave, UK, late
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Kristen, California, very late

1️⃣ Do you have suggested topics you are looking to discuss? Post in this thread and we’ll open threads for them as appropriate.

Ilcho Vuchkov (vuil)	Dependencies… Symfony, PHP, MySQL, etc. versions outside Drupal… (edited)
xjm	CKE5 patch :tada:
xjm	Also #3223443: [policy, no patch] Process for dealing with EOL PHP versions during the Drupal 10 and future release cycles

2️⃣ Symfony 5 vs 6 how is progress?

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Raised by @Ilcho Vuchkov (vuil)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	SF6 compatibility patches are regularly landing
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Thanks all for their efforts
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Some are postponed to Drupal 10 branch opening
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Not sure if we can state yet that 10 can be based on SF6
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	#3161889: [META] Symfony 6 compatibility
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Maybe @catch can provide a more accurate summary
catch	At the moment there's nothing to indicate we can't, but we've still got some Symfony 5.4 deprecations to get through and possibly more to come before they release an RC.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	And their RC would be next month?
xjm	RC will be in Nov.
xjm	We might get a beta next month though
xjm	(Basing this on past releases, no totally official schedule)
larowlan	We'll need Drupal level deprecation warnings to get to 6 on 10
larowlan	e.g. the things we can't fix now (and are punting to 10) will be disruptive for contrib too because of core changes. So we need to be emitting deprecation errors now (ala symfony debug class loader) for those things
longwave	it looks like SF6 is going to add return types everywhere, and personally it feels like the window for this is too short for us to add deprecations for this in D9
longwave	there are also tricky cases for e.g. union types that are PHP 8 only - even if we trigger deprecations for them now, contrib/custom code can't upgrade until it stops supporting PHP 7
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Yeah if they need to stop supporting PHP 7 then multi-core compatibility is a no-go and therefore the in-place update contribs first then core update does not work. Has this been discussed yet @catch ?
xjm	Well, D9 does support PHP 8.0
xjm	So it's not that multi-core compatibility is a no-go, just that you have to have PHP 8+ to support both D9 and D10
xjm	(This also again brings us back to how important PHP 8 compatibility in contrib is)
xjm	But there is an issue that was filed for the Symfony return type deprecation stuff: #3232131: [Symfony 5] Symfony's DebugClassLoader triggers deprecation messages for missing return type hints, where there is no deprecation
xjm	This doesn't help us if Symfony requires union types anywhere for SF 6, so we might need to add compatibility layers if that happens like we did with the void typehints for phpunit
xjm	Other than union types, though, PHP 7 does generally support the typehints, so it's more about the BC of the individual classes and implementations
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@xjm while Drupal 9 supports PHP 8, it does not require it so there will be side effects of practically requiring PHP 8 due to contributed modules if they go multi-core compatibility even for sites not updating to 10. Now that I wrote that down I don't know if that is a problem though :joy:
xjm	This is not different from the D9 update
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@xjm hm my understanding is the Drupal 10 contrib updates would potentially require new language features not present in PHP 7? If so, that would be different, no?
longwave	there is a concrete case that affects contrib already #3232113: [Symfony 6] Add "static" type hint to the method Drupal\Component\HttpFoundation\SecuredRedirectResponse::setTargetUrl()
catch	@Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) yeah I don't think it's a problem if some contrib modules start to require PHP 8, that's always been possible. There are not that many cases where contrib directly subclasses Symfony classes, and there'll be even less where they override a method that's adding a union type, so doubt it's going to be overwhelming. (edited)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Sounds good!
catch	Also even if we only updated to Symfony 5.4, the deprecation message is there (if we didn't explicitly suppress it), so to get to no deprecations against Drupal 10, both contrib and core still have to add the type hint, even though the module would work without it. (edited)
catch	And we'd still have to resolve the deprecations ourselves in Drupal 10 which would still rely on PHP 8, which potentially affects a smaller subset of modules subclassing our Symfony subclasses. So the real difference is whether contrib not resolving something results in a deprecation message or a hard-fail from Symfony in Drupal 10. (edited)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Ah thanks for the insight.
catch	Thanks for asking - took me a while to realise the last bit.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	That is why I like discussion in these meetings :)

3️⃣ PHP 8 vs 8.1

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@Ilcho Vuchkov (vuil) and @xjm raised this
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	No definite decision yet.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	That said we have #3223443: [policy, no patch] Process for dealing with EOL PHP versions during the Drupal 10 and future release cycles if we release on 8.0
xjm	I haven't had the opportunity to read and review this at length yet, but I recommend others do as well. Feedback will be helpful.
Kristen Pol (she/her)	Added my 2 cents to the issue

4️⃣ Database requirements: MySQL/MariaDB same, postgresql raised to 12, SQLite will require Json1 but same version.

Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	I think that pretty much summarizes it.
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	https://www.drupal.org/node/3228686 is being added onto as decisions get made
daffie	And PostgreSQL will require the pg_trgm extension. I could use a review on #3214921: Add a requirements warning in Drupal 9 when PostgreSQL is used and the pg_trgm extension is not created
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Yeah that was a documented but not enforced Drupal 9 requirement, that will now be enforced :)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	Thanks @daffie for your work on these and others :)
daffie	Only if I get the issue to land in 9.3.

5️⃣ CKEditor 5 core issue is posted (after extensive contrib development). Needs testing.

lleber	May have ran into one "thing" with it. I'd like a sanity check before I open an issue proper though.https://drupal.slack.com/archives/C01GWN3QYJD/p1630633165009200If my set-up was sane, this could indicate a way for data loss to occur. (edited)
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	#3231364: Add CKEditor 5 module to Drupal core is the core issue
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	@lleber on a cursory look that does sound like something CK5 would do
Kristen Pol (she/her)	@Gábor Hojtsy (he/him) do you mean CK5 should strip h4/h5/h6?
Gábor Hojtsy (he/him)	No, the report said it strips attributed of them no? (edited)
lleber	I'll have time tonight to add a more detailed report on #3231364.