Well, this is a fine converging discussion here! :) This is quite astonishing, because I think we have two dimensions with diverging aspects:

  • Adressing the user.

    Just using passive sentenses would lead to something like "Amtssprache". Juristically correct, but harder to understand. Since not everybody is really familiar with using a computer, the easier the sentences, the more easy is the understanding. As a website-developer I would like to decide, if I would like to adress the user as "du", "Sie", use the even more formal "passive" or if I want the user to feel the user being in his/her own space, using 1. pers.sing.: "ich", "mein", etc. In my opinion, we can leave a decision between "du" and "Sie". I vote for something like "de-polite.po" and "de-familiar.po" choosable for the developer.

  • Easy user-terms vs. original english administrator terms

    German website-users would neither understand "node" nor understand "Knoten" as a piece of text. Same with "taxonomy" and "vocabulary". All these terms are very typical of Drupal. An administrator should know the original terms. He/she reads a lot of english manuals, so the terms should not be translated and be the orginals in an administration context.

On my webiste, I would like to make people feel like being in a typical familiar online-community, and even in germany users say "du" to each other. Consistantly, the website's interface should teach this "Knigge".

I'm not familiar with the current translation-system... Do you think, these aspects are important, too? Could they be handled in some way with the existing system?

CommentFileSizeAuthor
#10 de_du.po481.12 KBflokli

Comments

Anonymous’s picture

Anonymous (not verified) commented

Concerning the «Anrede»:

As far as I know, making a «Du» and a «Sie» version would actually require doubling the project – after all, you can't just run a simple search-and-replace, but you'd have to reformulate entire sentences. Given the fact that translating the interface is quite a huge task in itself, I don't think that anyone would have the time to do it in two versions.

Thus the concept of the passive form. It will reduce the critical strings to a minimum, allowing administrators to change them from formal to informal, if the choose to do so.

The formal style has been chosen to allow Drupal being deployed on «business» websites as well, apart from more informal communities.

kkaefer’s picture

kkaefer commented

Please read also http://drupal.org/node/103794 for information on the Sie/passive sentence issue. It's not required to always avoid "Sie".

As xeophin said, an informal translation would require lots of additional effort. While users in a "familiar" community won't be bothered when they are addressed with "Sie", users on a company website could get annoyed if they are addressed with "Du" all the time. Therefore we chose "Sie" as default.

kkaefer’s picture

kkaefer commented

Also, we don't intend to use "Knoten" or "Node" in a German translation. The term "node" is not even allowed in English interface strings. However, we translate "taxonomy" with "Taxnomie". The word is even in the English language not that common. Another word wouldn't do justice with all the functionality of the taxonomy system.

marcor’s picture

marcor commented

Yes, own branches for "du" and "Sie" would raise the effort. I agree to the arguments in favor of "Sie"/passive as a default regarding an easy translation process. Open source software needs to invite programmers by making authoring easy. But when I'm running a website, I don't target my site to programmers. I just have the user, my site's visitor in mind.

We are not in the age when people should fit to machines anymore - computer systems should be made to fit to users. "Du" or "Sie" leads to a completely different atmosphere, it influences every visitor's decisions to stay, click, register, come back, feel well and hopefully participate, pay attention or money. ;) On my upcoming community website I want to invite people in a familiar way. I don't make them feel in business (even if this will be a business project once), I want to let them feel being among friends. Familiar language is essential here. So I have to make an own translation anyway.

I think some more website-builders will have their visitors in mind (Drupal is well known for its great accessibility), and I suppose a lot of them want to address them in a familiar way: community builders (like me), bloggers, personal homepage citizens, activists against the detaching "Sie" ...

So, let me ask you:

  • Wanna have it shared? ;)
  • Where could it be deployed?
  • How is it maintained?
  • How can other people contribute?
kkaefer’s picture

kkaefer commented

I contemplated a bit about this topic and found a partial solution. My suggestion is to first complete the “Sie” translation. After that, I’ll write a script that extracts all strings that have formal words (Sie, Ihr, Ihre, …) and creates a new po file named informal.po. Now we can change all the strings to the informal “Du”. Users import the general (“Sie”) translation first and if they want to change to “Du”, they’ll overwrite their strings with informal.po.

marcor’s picture

marcor commented

Great idea! :) Though it does not solve the passive-aspect. But I think having just a partial version to overwrite the formal defaults is a good, lean solution.

The filename should be a proposal for module-developer who want to provide an informal extra too. Iso-prefix "de" like "de-informal.po" would keep it distinguishable from other languages.

chrischris’s picture

chrischris commented

Hello! Is the "de-informal.po" already included in the current 5.x release?
If not, when (if at all) will it be available?

Cheers,
Chris

kkaefer’s picture

kkaefer commented

de-informal.po is not available. However, it will be available once someone is willing to rephrase the questionable parts to informal language. So far, nobody did that. Also, it's advisable to wait with this until we have a complete German translation.

marcor’s picture

marcor commented

As I said I'm willing to help raising an de-informal.po, but I wait for the "de.po-is-finished"-signal! ;)

flokli’s picture

flokli commented
StatusFileSize
new de_du.po481.12 KB

I quickly made a "Anrede du" version, based on 5.x-1.0 but can't update it any more,
because I unfortunately don't have much time... :-(

See attachment...

hass’s picture

hass commented

I feel like we are not "Ikea"... however you feel more aligned if someone talks to you with "Du" and this makes you buying more Ikea pices in the Ikea shops... *G* - this "Sie" should be kept to be formal and not like "my friend" what i may not want to be.

-1 points for "Du"

kkaefer’s picture

kkaefer commented
Status: Active » Fixed

There is an informal add-on translation available at http://drupal.org/project/de-informal.

Anonymous’s picture

(not verified) commented
Status: Fixed » Closed (fixed)
joachim namyslo’s picture

joachim namyslo
Primary language German
Location Kulmbach 🇩🇪 🇪🇺
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