By Durky Duur on
Before you start using this CMS, BEWARE!!!!
I'm a very experienced web designer and this CMS will drive your crazy. I suggest to stay away from Drupal all together. Very snobbish support and you will be wasting a ton of time trying to figure out what has gone wrong when in actuality, there is nothing wrong. I could have built 10 perfectly functioning websites buy now versus using Drupal. WordPress is a much better CMS to work with and friendly support. Just saying and speaking from someone that has been building websites since the mid 90's.
For all you folks using other CMS's with friendly support and it actually works, please reply and let the people know.
Comments
Wordpress is great for a
Wordpress is great for a blogging CMS but it is limited when your trying to make a fully functioning interactive membership website.
=)
If you web designer and not a web developer then I would assume anything beyond design you would have a hard time with Drupal. Snobbish support? Everyone has there own individual personalities so that is a harsh statement. Your statement "you will be wasting a ton of time trying to figure out what has gone wrong when in actuality, there is nothing wrong" tells me that you where just not familiar with a module or function of Drupal. Drupal does have a sharp learning curve which for some people they just don't want to start from the beginning and work up the ladder. I'm sorry you felt that way as I felt that way many years ago so I know where you are coming from.
It has just been a week since u have joined
It has just been a week u have joined Drupal and if you think you can master Drupal in just a weeks time you are wrong. Also if you say you have been building websites since 90's then Drupal should not have been so hard on you if you know some basic php, mysql, html and css stuff and if you would have followed the documentation.
Not crap, just not user friendly
I wouldn't say it is crap. It is not user friendly and intuitive as some CMS and blogging apps but it has some good qualities. I wouldn't recommend it to an organization that has not technical people updating their site. It's either for a small team who have fairly good technical skills or a large organization that can hire a dedicated Web development team.
For example, it has very good granularity for building from the ground up to add pages and features to them. But there's no simple, out-of-the-box, intuitive, friendly way to create a section for example. Wordpress on the other hand allows creating sections, pages and adding content with simple well labeled button clicks as soon as it's installed, which is good for giving to staff who would just need to add content.
That's just like, your opinion man
Drupal can be intimidating in terms of learning curve, but it's really more powerful than WordPress (and its ilk). If you don't NEED lots of content management functionality, then you don't NEED Drupal.
Thats a pitty! We all know
Thats a pitty!
We all know these 'Drupal moments', but if you don't like it, feel free to help us making things better ;-)
Impressive comments
Impression comments and counter arguments from the replies. I was expecting to see fanboism style defense and a heated argument following the first post but instead the comments were constructive. I believe this alone shows that the Drupal's community is generally constructive and non-snobbish?
it is scottish?
if it's not scottish, then it's crap...but i'm pretty sure that dries, in his previous life, was scottish, and so drupal is not crap.
in the words of peter gabriel, don't give up. just because you don't get a fun "that's it!" screen like wordpress, doesn't mean it's not awesome..
I'm not sure what Dries was
I'm not sure what Dries was in his previous life, I'm starting to not mind Drupal, for a large scale App I'd use it if Wordpress couldn't do it......
Thanks for the kind words of motivation, probably could do with reading a book on Drupal 7, having just started working with it after a couple of days reading the documentation, come this far, might as well keep going, I'm sure its pretty good once you've mastered it, otherwise it wouldn't be so popular........
Stable releases of Drupal
Stable releases of Drupal tend to be.. well... stable, but agreed, there are enough modules out there that leave a lot to be desired in terms of code quality, and can seriously screw things up. Also, user error can also be a major problem. I would think there are some basic rules to live by:
Did i answer your question on the forums? I love to hear a reply wether or not it worked for you!
Jaap - Acquia certified drupal site builder
documentation is poor
What i don't understand is that developers spend all their time developing a module and then dont explain how to use it .
Documentation seems to be on the level of "once you install you configure it " ... yes but HOW
I ve installed one or two modules, enabled and gone into the admin / config sections i expect to find them and nothing - two weeks later you come across one in an obscure sub menu off a partially hidden 'advanced' button
And why are there So many modules ? I've created a view and i want to print it - why do i now have to test 3 or 4 different modules with no step by step documentation when a simple print option couldv'e been added to the core views module
i recently viewed a video tutorial on setting up drupal relationships and the author was constantly making mistakes , there was laughing in the background - or should i say foreground it was so loud and error messages were popping here and there - and this is the video he decided to upload !!
That's the impression i get about drupal developers - very clever but a little too casual .
_
<sigh>, as was pointed out in the other thread on which you made the same comment 1) devs are not are not usually the best users to create documentation and 2) modules with usage statistics indicating hundreds, thousands, or even dozens of users with no or minimal docs means that none of those benefitting from the dev's work for free could be bothered contributing some docs back.
Instead of whining in the forums about what those doing for you for free aren't doing enough (where else would that be considered anything but rude and entitled), you might instead consider becoming part of the solution and contributing some docs back.
In any case, as jay usually says, if you're not happy with drupal you should ask for your money back.
drupal needs a "like" button
...for replies like that ;)
documentation
How can i contribute a document back when i cant use the module in the first place .... because there isnt any documentation !
I am currently setting up a demo system in drupal and iam going through each part of the demo - documenting with screen shots as i go through because
a) it focuses me on what i am doing and b) it helps the people i know who will be looking at it .
im not asking for intricate screenshots but just a simple step by step paragraph
eg. "for options - admin/config/page_print
usage - create a view, Do not add a page or block but continue. in the Main Options Page , Click Add Tab , select Page_print from drop down ..."
Thats alll im looking for at this stage . anything more intricate then i could use the forums
If the developer who is creating the application isnt the one to document it - who is ?
if my comments appear elsewhere because its a consistent problem - documentation is poor - unless you can point me in the right direction.
_
Developers develop-- that's what they do best and how to best use their time. The fact is, anyone that uses a module can document it but only coders can write the code. And there are always, always, many many many more users of a module than there are maintainers. In fact, there are many more users than developers. period. That's just the way it is. Coding is a specific skill that not everyone can master. Writing documentation only requires a very basic ability with english. Skillwise, there are far more people capable of writing documentation than there are people that can code.
For argument's sake let's say the average amount of maintainers for a module is 3 (and I bet 99.9% of the time it's 1). Let's also say that module has 100 reported users (likely much more). That's a 100/3 more people that can do documentation for a module as opposed to writing code for it. Is it really fair to ask the 3 to do more while the 100 do nothing but benefit for free?
Moreover, by simple familiarity and skillset, developers don't typically write the type of documentation that users need. You almost never see developers writing documentation for theirs apps in commercial companies. That's not an accident.
that sounds fair enough
that sounds fair enough
but who puts the restrictions and limits on a module
Who decides how and where a module sits ? surely the person who decided that could write a few notes
These modules dont exist in a vacuum - they're dependent on other factors and behave in a certain way ...
That's my argument - i dont know how they behave and thats why we need documentation .
in a sense i've developed my own demo 'system' ... I've put restrictions in . I've coded albeit via css . im detemining how my 'module' behaves. As a result I'm giving my colleagues some notes . in truth they can do whatever they want , but at least I'm giving them a starting point .
As you say writing documentation isnt hard and i'm sure a developer/maintainer has a vested interest in insuring the most people use the fruits of their labors in a reasonable fashion. Surely adequate documentation would help
Why would a end user write documentation ? whats their motivation ? They can certainly write feedback which is useful to the developer/maintainer. but documentation ??? Its like a film critic ... a film critic gives his opinion ... he doesn't rewrite the script .
Like i said im not expecting 'War and Peace' but its disappointing and frustrating that there isnt simple instructions for half these modules
On another tangent i use a open source astronomy program called celestia and almost every download comes with a simple readme.txt
Now maybe drupal.org isnt the place to look for guides - if you know of a better place ( youtube ??? ) to search for module instructions i would appreciate it
Why would a end user write
The same can be said of a developer - why would they write the documentation? What's their motivation?
Then let's even step back a step - why would a developer even contribute a module in the first place? What's their motivation?
I can't speak for everyone's motivation, but my motivation in contributing modules was to provide back to the community that provides to me for free.
I would say that should be the motivation of module users as well. Of course you don't have to, but that just creates a culture of non-contribution, which results in things like undocumented modules.
So to answer your question, the user's motivation in writing documentation is to create an environment, and a community, where people who cannot code contribute in other ways, benefiting the community as a whole, which in turn benefits themselves.
If you cannot understand this concept, then you are likely cursed to forever be frustrated with the level of support you are receiving from a free product.
Edit: As to how you should write documentation for a module you don't know how to use - you don't need to. Contribute documentation or examples to modules you do know. Look over existing documentation, and in many cases, you can edit it yourself, either adding to it, or cleaning up the existing documentation. And as you've been using Drupal a long time, you should have figured out how to pull apart some modules and see how they work by now, no? If you figure out how to do something that isn't documented, it's a prime time to document it.
Contact me to contract me for D7 -> D10/11 migrations.
poles apart on this issue
its like the apocryphal expert who buys a self-assembly desk and spends 3 days toiling unitl finally the desk just about stands and objects roll off - the expert boasts what his learnt and the problems he overcame. His friend politely asks 'did you read the instuctions?"
We are poles apart on this issue and we could argue into the next century .
To me, there is a community of experience and inexperience and if you create something to be used, you dont know who is going to use your creation - is that fair to say ?
I am saying anyone who is unfamilar with something could do with the most basic of instruction. if you agree with that great ... if you dont - well like i said we are poles apart.
Anyway will probably see you on another topic
update : heres an example - https://drupal.org/project/node_recur - thats all im asking . Anything else you research.
_
and im saying that those that benefit from someone else's work for free, should be willing and happy to contribute something like documentation back. That there are probably 10k users for every maintainer that choose not to speaks volumes.
and as long as that continues, and those that don't contribute back have a truckload of excuses why it's ok they don't while continuing to ask those that do contribute to contribute even more, we'll have poor and undocumented modules.
if even a tiny fraction of users that can't code contributed a smidgen of documentation, the problem could be resolved practically overnight.
rationalize all you like, the math is the math-- and not subject to opinion.
yep, we're worlds apart....
You know, I even offered an
You know, I even offered an example for this guy - writing documentation for modules he does know. His response - how am I supposed to understand modules I don't know.
Worlds apart is correct. Some of us try to give back to the community, some just want to take from it.
Contact me to contract me for D7 -> D10/11 migrations.
i was going to reply , but .
i was going to reply , but ...............
are you a developer ?
are you a developer ?
have you put anything , any text with anything you have created ?
Yes I'm a developer, and I've
Yes I'm a developer, and I've put some minor help text on the module download pages.
Contact me to contract me for D7 -> D10/11 migrations.
Beginner Here
Hi ,
Could someone please redirect me to the right Drupal forum?
Thanks
Susan
right forum
I think it depends on the problem you have - i usually post in the 'post installation' section
heres a link
post installation forum
hope that helps
Drupal is Programmer friendly CMS
If you are designer then you will have some initial trouble in drupal, but just by learning basic file and folder structure you can easily overcome that, and it is vary simple also.
Paste you question here if you have any in theming/ designing/ templating , I will guide you.
Just one suggestion, always use some well known contributed theme of drupal for designing.
I am sure one day you will also start developing sites in drupal and you will enjoy that.
Regards.
Thanks & Regards,
Ajay Singh
Not "crap" but...
Wouldn't say it's CRAP but at least drupal 7 is:
* counter-intuitive.
* seriously poorly-documented.
* if you need to develop, you need to traverse agartha and shambhala in order to get a theme working.
I used django (a python framework) and had a brand new component running in just one week (full-time dedication). Even sleeping with the drupal 7 docs under my pillow I can't draw an "O" using a cup. Did not choose to work with Drupal, but had to (i.e. maintain an already-created site) and, trust me, learning to speak in Quichua is easier than learning drupal (no, it's not a metaphor).
Poorly-documentation is a common base of many PHP frameworks developers, and Drupal is not an exception. Another case of poorly-documentation is the case of Laravel framework. Seems like PHP community turned to be a bit elitist about knowledge...
Customer Questions & Answers
I like the Customer Questions & Answers on Amazon.
It's a first hand user Q&A so it shows what I want to know
before i decide to buy the product.
I think we need this kind of Q&A page on each module web page.
Ya, I know we have forum for this purpose but the Q&A is more convenient
and time saving.
thanks
Aggree
Drupal 8 smells as well.
CMS itself is not so bad, but modules, even stable are awful.
If modules, even stable are so buggy, CMS becomes useless.
9 years later and this is still true.
To anyone new, considering Drupal. Stay away. It is trash.
Using Drupal since 2013
Tbh I learned to develop websites with Drupal in 2013, I used it for a long time, I used Drupal 7 (Which I think is the best and unic decent version), then I knew wordpress and I decided to keep using it as there's much better support and better plugins, and made my work easier... Latetly I decided to use Drupal 7 again for a project, I regret! what a mistake, all modules are old, outdated and full of bugs, tried to look the state of Drupal 8 which is very bad as well, not enough module support and super buggy.
Stay away from Drupal, and use Wordpress for website development.
Crap-crap-crap
Thanks god I finished project on drupal 8
This cms is a real crap.
Developers wrote that it's popular, but I think, that it was popular 10 years ago
Modules, marked as stable are crap, drupal itself is crap, migration system with it's yml configuration files is crap,
config import is awful shit, there are always errors during import
Will never use it again
Crap Crap crap
Many government agencies use drupal and they have the staff to work things out. Dries even said unless you have a budget of at least $50k drupal might not be for you.
If you have a budget >= $50k
If you have a budget >= $50k you won't use any CMS
I use drupal.
I use drupal.
And I'm happy for it.
Until now I have spent $19 (yes without the "k")
Drupal is very useful, even for small budgets.
Just a little bit of tech knowledge and the will to learn.
Stability has never been an issue here, Drupal running on debian servers.
//Danjel
Same for me, really CRAP
Third time I try it and it always finish the same, once you want to update the core, it crashes and unusable!
Unable to upgrade from 7 to 8 and even 8 to 9 version and now, the last upgrade of 9th version crashed everything, the site is unusable!
I'll go back to my own programming!
Wow. I heard wordpress is
Wow. I heard wordpress is crap. I just want to create simple blog with code highlighting, page view statistics, spam filter. Probably thats it. I thought since wordpress is crap, I could use drupal, probably second most popular cms and it uses symfony code , and I have symfony experience so maybe it might be good. But I really do not want to spend much time on learning cms. I was even thinking about website builderrrs like wix, but did not look like they are good choice for monetisation. But after reading those commens, I am considering wordpress. Also watched this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8KJKLLp_Lg&ab_channel=WebWash - in it he said drupal is for complex solutions, wordpress for simple ones, so I guess my choice should be wordpress
Yeah, Wordpress is much
Yeah, Wordpress is much easier to learn for simple projects. Drupal comes with a steep learning curve. It's awesome and does pretty much everything, but with that complexity comes a lot of difficulty.
Contact me to contract me for D7 -> D10/11 migrations.
Avoid Drupal
Don't know what your needs are, but you don't need to waste time with Drupal.
What do you recommend for
What do you recommend for alternatives?
Contact me to contract me for D7 -> D10/11 migrations.
Hmmm
I wrote my own code. Should have done that from the start.
Thank you - I think that adds
Thank you - I think that adds some context to your original comment.
Contact me to contract me for D7 -> D10/11 migrations.
Wordpress vs Drupal
You answered your own question. You want to create simple blog. Wordpress is for you. We can do simple sites with drupal and do them but why learn drupal when you just want to get going. Of course themes in drupal are FREE but if your not interested in any study then just do Wordpress.
Ok, I have started a blog
Ok, I have started a blog with wordpress, written 5 articles already - no problems so far. Do not know why I would need drupal if it goes so well with wordpress and it felt easier to learn.
I F***ING AGREE
Expect everything to take between 5 to 10 times longer to make. Every time you make the smallest change you need to clear the cache and wait from 30 seconds to 2 minutes, just to see what you've done. A lot of plugins are still in alpha stage, poorly maintained, little to no documentation beside looking at the damn source code. I've started a job where Drupal is used as a backend for a mobile app. What a mistake. I've spend my entire day trying to make a rest call to authenticate via Rest or GraphQL. Why the login form with ?_format=json returns HTML ? Who knows! But there's a post from 2006 that might lead you to a wild goose chase that will turn into a dead end. Say away from this, and, for the record, I've written this entire post, during the time it took to activate a module.