Ban frank0051

Then respond to the problems. I've actively provided helpful solutions and they still go unnoticed. I'm bumping so the issue doesn't get closed after two weeks. You'll notice both issues have been open since September. Poor support is the reason I no longer recommend Drupal, and it's also the reason why I refuse to donate. I would easily give a at the organizational member level or higher each year because there used to be a solid product with Drupal. But, when even the core has developed so many problems that it is unusable on different browsers or isn't compatible with HTML5, then why I would want to waste my money?

Don't believe me?

This issue makes Drupal 6.x violate HTML5 rules: http://drupal.org/node/1277140
This isuse makes my three installs of Drupal useless on Opera: http://drupal.org/node/1277220

So, no, when my issues get closed after two weeks for no activity, then yeah I'm going to reply to them.

"Poor support is the reason I no longer recommend Drupal, and it's also the reason why
I refuse to donate. I would easily give a at the organizational member level or higher each year because there used to be a solid product with Drupal.
But, when even the core has developed so many problems that it is unusable on different browsers or isn't compatible with HTML5, then why I would want
to waste my money?"

Frank, I hear your frustration. However, Drupal does not have poor support. There are a number of ways to get support for Drupal.

- You can wait for someone with the skills to fix the problem
- You can pay someone with the skills to fix the problem (this isn't a donation, it is paying someone to work for you)
- You can use Drupal from a SaaS provider with a SLA and support agreement
- many other options I'm not thinking of

It sounds to me like you expect people to fix problems for free. That happens quite often, however, if people don't care about the problems you care about (I experience this a lot myself) then support isn't free. You must pay for support if you want it on your schedule, and not on the schedule of a community contributor.

You may read this and see it as a legitimate reason for disliking Drupal, and that is reasonable. It does not, however, mean that Drupal has poor support, but that the support that exists isn't to your liking.

I will pay anyone, right now, $20 to patch-ify that solution in http://drupal.org/node/1277140 and help test it. I've already done the heavy-lifting when it comes to figuring out what the problem is and IDing the PHP code.

I will pay anyone, right now, $10 to just figure out what the problem is in http://drupal.org/node/1277220

I have numerous other threads where I've had issues, but these two are the most pressing and the ones I continue to bump.

Lets see if offering money makes a difference, care to make a wager? Then again, I'm sure people like chx will consider this spam and ban me once it is found that offering money doesn't make a difference either.

As far as fixing for free. Hate to tell you this, but this is an open source community. I understand you sacrifice specificity and speed when working with an open source community, but that shouldn't cause a core issue that affects usability to go 4 months without a solution, and to have someone that keeps that issue in the limelight threatened to be banned. This isn't a module problem, BUT A CORE ISSUE. Seriously, when it comes to something like that, those are the type of issues an open source community should be on the ball with. Drupal used to be like that - I've been using the product for 4+ years, but for some reason the quality has really just slipped since the focus on D7 begun at the beginning of this year. I know several individuals that have completely moved aware from Drupal this year; I've been resisting the urge to do so because I work 50-60 hour weeks plus have two other side projects going on, but I just might have to.

Bumping a post to avoid it gets automatically closed is useless, as:

• Issues whose state is not fixed are not automatically closed.
• Issues whose state is fixed don't catch any attention; if you think the issue still needs attention, you should first change its status.

Just find it funny that this is something that was probably 30 minutes of work for Everett (especially since he has have already commented on on the HTML5 issue thread), and it wasn't the fact that this was a core usability issue that has been outstanding for 4 months that motivated him, but rather money. That's a sad statement on the open source community that has developed here at Drupal.

I sure hope Everett has learned his lesson: never help the moaners and bitchers, they are an ungrateful lot.

As far as fixing for free. Hate to tell you this, but this is an open source community. I understand you sacrifice specificity and speed when working with an open source community, but that shouldn't cause a core issue that affects usability to go 4 months without a solution, and to have someone that keeps that issue in the limelight threatened to be banned.

Your perspective is interesting for a number of reasons:

1. This is an open source community. Nobody is obligated to do ANYTHING for you, especially when you repeatedly force your entitlement complex on everyone else, even after repeated warnings. "bump" is not appropriate input to a discussion, we told you that, and you continued to do it. Every other person in that thread has made valuable contributions to this community, and you either 1) didn't realize that, or 2) didn't care and proceeded to disparage people in that thread because they were not jumping at the opportunity to fix things for you after you behaved the way you did. That's not a good way to get anything done in this community. As I said in the file_create_url() issue multiple times: it'll take you 30 minutes to roll a patch. The process is well documented, and if you said "Can somebody walk me through rolling a patch for this?", you'd have people lining up on your door step. Instead, you made an ass out of yourself and totally pushed away a number of people that could have helped you.

2. "a core issue that affects usability to go 4 months without a solution": First, this is apparently not a huge issue because nobody else has commented on that thread saying "Yeah, this affects me too". Second, 4 months is an unbelievably short amount of time for a core issue to be open. http://drupal.org/node/8 was open for eight years. When contributors come into a thread and see somebody abusing the system like you did in #1277140 (and many other issues that you've participated in), that drives people away from the issue and you don't seem to understand that.

3. Everett has made extremely valuable contributions to core, especially in terms of accessibility. He has NO problems contributing. I'm guessing that he was put off by your behavior in that issue and chose to work on things that were a little less anger inducing.

The way that you present yourself in the issue queues presents a feeling of entitlement. You even speak down to fairly prolific contributors, using phrases like "Hate to tell you this, but.." and "Context clues, buddy". If you want "some good ol' fashion customer support", then become a customer - start paying people for their services. Or better yet, become a contributor. Build some karma in this community by contributing doc fixes, patches, or modules/themes. You've been around for over three years, but don't have a single contributed module or theme. Why is that?

Bottom line: if you want this community to support you, you have to support the community. That's how it works. If you don't like it, try finding another community that will give you free support and development assistance for three years without requiring you to give something back to that community.

My guess is that you'll find no such community.

You all seem to have plenty of time to lecture (particularly cweagans since this is now your second attempt lecturing me on the matter), yet no time to get to work, even with money on the line. At least Everett attempted, even though his solution didn't work (note that it didn't follow the suggestion I laid out) - I'll give him credit for at least trying with money on the line. Thank you for your attempt Everett, but unfortunately I can not pay for a solution that does not work.

As for your comment on "many other threads" that I've done this [bumping] in: you're right, I've done it in many (I bump every two weeks or so if no response), and nearly all get solved because it reminds people that the issue is still outstanding. Only the two listed above seem to be a problem - they also happen to be the only two core issues that I can recall that I've reported a problem on. So there goes you theory on bumping not being effective. The simple fact is people have busy lives and threads fall out off their to-do list. In fact, on other communities many people assume if they don't see things from the original poster that the problem was solved.

And, finally to your comment, "start paying people for their service". I'm offering money, how come you are still lecturing and not working? These are likely problems that are an hour of work at most; you likely spent that much time reading and lecturing me between two threads.

I don't think you understand your position very well: this issue was opened because your behavior was deemed to be toxic to the community. You were warned to stop, and now, you're being a douche on the thread talking about banning you to the people who will ultimately be responsible for instating the ban.

Nobody is lecturing. We're trying to get you to change your habits so that you become a benefit to this community. bumping issues just adds noise. If you want movement on an issue, move it forward.

Again, I ask, you have been here for over three years. Why haven't you contributed anything, while still expecting people to do things for you?

I've started just 15 threads in the over 3 1/2 years I've been here (I actually have another user name that dates back a year or two before that, but I never got to use it because I forgot my password and no longer had the e-mail, so 15 post over 4 or 5 years really): my guess is only about 3/4th of them were issues the rest were misc. I'd say that's a pretty good track record. In fact nearly all have been solved for me, and other people have opened them back up BECAUSE they found they had the same problems and need a different solution. I've also made suggestions and pointed people to solutions in just as many threads (if not more). The simple fact is my life doesn't revolve around Drupal, like many of yours does: you guys work in IT, I don't; you guys are actively involved in the open source community as developers, I'm not; you guys enjoy this stuff, I don't. The simple fact is I live a very different lifestyle than you guys; but my where Drupal does impact my life (two non-profits I'm involved with), I do take the time to come here and find solutions.

As to changing behavior: I have, I'm now offering money, but you still seem to be lecturing. Is this your way of telling me money isn't the issue either? I mean seriously, you have had numerous opportunities to offer help - or, ask me to become a client (since you said that was an issue) - instead you have now taken three opportunities to publicly lecture.

There is not enough money in the world for me to take you as a client.

Excellent, we've solved that problem. You've caused me to adjust my behavior by offering money, and you've accomplished your mission. Guess you can stop lecturing (i.e. bumping this thread) and allow someone else to take the money, say the problems are unsolvable, or ask for more. Thanks for removing yourself from the market so those that are interested can now get down to work.

So let's see, if the bug ends up taking three hours to fix, you're offering less than US minimum wage to fix it.

If someone works on the bug and you don't like the results, you're going to refuse payment (commonly known as either wage theft or spec work depending on the circumstances).

And meanwhile you're insulting the very people who might have worked on the issue for free had you been a bit politer.

Marking this RTBC.

Seconded.

No, if it takes 3 hours, than by all means, let me know (see comment 13: http://drupal.org/node/1374846#comment-5379378) and ask for more money. The URL encode one should take an hour at most is my guess, but it takes more, than by all means, ask for more.

On the JS one, I simply offered $10 to figure out what the problem is. I didn't even toss out a number to solve the problem.

As far as insult the people that might have worked for free: I don't care if I have to pay you, that isn't the issue. In fact, the only person in four months between two threads (so that's eight months) to bring up payment was cweagans when he simply used the thread to lecture me then leave. As soon as Everett suggested payment with this thread (which is more than you did), I responded in kind with offering payment. So is payment your issue too or not? Lets get to the heart of the matter here: do you want payment or not, and if so say how much and provide an estimate like any good businessman would do.

Resetting status and retitling,

No csweagans, give catch the opportunity to respond to if he wants the money (or name his price) or not before you magically go changing the title.

Just paid Everett $20 bucks for 20 minutes of work (Everett please tell me if it was more than that). The urlencode issue appears to be solved. So that is no longer on the table.

The JS issue for Opera users is still there if you want it, catch.

I'd guess that catch is busy being the Drupal 8 branch maintainer. Also, he's the one that RTBCed banning you.

I think the point is moot.

Whatever, catch made his comment when he didn't think I was going to pay anyone (based on my reading of the post). Clearly I have made progress whereas you are just being bitter. Everett got some cheese today and a commit to his name, and I got my problem solved. See what happens when you make a suggestion instead of lecture?

It turns out I've already helped you with your js issue, by pointing out it was a duplicate of another one:

http://drupal.org/node/1277224#comment-4980982

then I helped you on that issue by figuring out where the bug was #1277220: Javascript throws error while trying to upload files via Opera.

Then someone else pointed out a workaround for the problem by suggesting you install jquery_update (which suggests this might be a bug in jQuery itself - D6 ships with a very old version and that is never going to be updated in core, hence the module), which you ignored, then bumped that thread too.

So despite being helpful, here I am spending time I should be working (and I get paid hourly, and no your $20 is not going to make up for the time I spent posting this), responding to someone complaining that they got no responses on their two issues (despite at least one of them getting plenty of response before you started bumping it.

So apparently what happens when you make suggestions, is you get ignored, then have to read interminably whining on webmasters issues by the people you were trying to help.

You consolidated MY two threads into one because I posted it was an issue for Drupal 7 (which is what I thought the Drupal.org site was running) and for Drupal 6 (my site). That isn't pointing out a duplicate issue. As far as getting a lot of respones: yeah, you mean by you, back in Sept. when you thought it was a Drupal 7 problem, then it was switched to Drupal 6 and you disappeared - there was no one else really commenting there. As far as not helping: my apologies, I thought you were chx when I originally typed up comment #16 as a response to #14. My bad on my part, and you deserve my sincerest apologies for that.

As far as the workaround, adding a module to solve a CORE issue is not a real solution, now is it? And, you are the first person to suggest that that the version of JS included in Drupal 6 is not going to be updated. So, I politely ask why? Again, you are basically leaving Opera users with a hole in their Drupal support with core. That being said, it looks like you IDed the problem, send me your PayPal address and I'll send you the money I offered for that (amazing how you were able to ID now rather than back in Sept.).

And, you are the first person to suggest that that the version of JS included in Drupal 6 is not going to be updated. So, I politely ask why? Again, you are basically leaving Opera users with a hole in their Drupal support with core.

jQuery is an external library with its own release cycle and approaches to API changes, whichever version we have in core on release is the one we stick with (unless there's a very minor update after that we can safely upgrade to). This has been the same since jQuery was added to core in the first place, I am not the 'first person' to suggest it, and that's the reason we have http://drupal.org/jquery_update

As far as the workaround, adding a module to solve a CORE issue is not a real solution, now is it?

Yes it is, the reason we have modules is to solve limitations with core. It is often annoying to install a module to fix core bugs, but tough, sometimes that's what you have to do. Now it's possible there is a fix to that bug that is not dependent on an update to jQuery, but it is definitely more work for someone to debug that in Opera than for you to install a module. And yet when someone suggests you do that, you continue to demand that people work for free (or for $10) so that you don't have to do that.

That isn't pointing out a duplicate issue. As far as getting a lot of respones: yeah, you mean by you, back in Sept. when you thought it was a Drupal 7 problem, then it was switched to Drupal 6 and you disappeared - there was no one else really commenting there.

No, you thought it was a Drupal 7 problem, after much back and forth it was determined that was because you had mad an incorrect assumption on the version that Drupal 7 runs on.

then it was switched to Drupal 6 and you disappeared

1. I do not work on core JavaScript issues.
2. I am the 8.x branch maintainer, describe 'disappeared'.
3. Someone else posted a fix for you on that issue and you ignored them, I was only interested in getting the two duplicate bug reports into a state where they reported the correct bug.
4. Every time I see an issue that people are needlessly bumping, I make a point of ignoring it so as not to feed that kind of behaviour. Unfortunately not everyone apparently has the same approach as me, which is why I am posting about this here.

Thank you for explaining. Too bad (for everyone's sake) that we couldn't have realized together that the explanation was as simple as that. I'll post it over in the other thread as well and mark it as Closed (Won't Fix).

Again, I'm happy to provide you payment - and as I said in comment #13, you're more than welcome to ask for more. That being said, simply explaining the limitations of core and why JQuery won't be updated (which is something that could have been explained back in Sept.) doesn't appear to me to warrant anything more than $10 (since it could have been done in 5 minutes at numerous junctures in the last 4 months, which means you would have gotten paid $2/minute or $120/hour). That being said, you're more than welcome to make your suggestion as to why you should be paid more when you send me your PayPal address.

No, I could not have pointed out that your issue was solved with jquery_update in September, because I didn't know that was the case. that was discovered out by Jalandhar in November 16th, to whom you responded to less than thankfully.

I would suggest you contact http://drupal.org/user/1576330 via their contact form with an apology and the offer of payment, assuming you have time to do that before you're banned.

Will do regarding Jalandhar.

And, thanks, I got two problems that have been outstanding for four months solved.

This is not fixed......

Is now.