By netentropy on

I love the freedom of Drupal. I might even add I am getting better at using it.

I am looking for a way to do the following:

I have a mandatory vocab and a free tagging vocab

i would like to use the mandatory vocab as sections

so that if i like to it , it will display a section picture, a section description and then teasers of nodes contained in the section.

Comments

vm’s picture

vm commented

investigate the sections.module

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nevets’s picture

nevets commented

The Taxonomy image module allows you too associate an image with every vocabulary term. The Taxonomy Introduction module allows you to associate an introduction with every vocabulary term (your section description). As long as your theme prints $help, when you visit pages of the form taxonomy/term/{tid} (where {tid} is taxonomy term id, ex: 12), the introduction text you add will show at the top of the page.

Since Taxonomy Introduction allows the input format to be php we can use a snippet like this as the introduction

<?php
print taxonomy_image_display(arg(2));
?>
<div>You can add what ever html/text you want</div>

The call to taxonomy_image_display() produces the image (assuming we have associated one with the term), and you can add what ever html/text you like.

netentropy’s picture

netentropy commented

thanks ill give it a go and update ya'll on my progress

netentropy’s picture

netentropy commented

what would you need to edit to put the taxonomy image next to the taxonomy name in a link like

taxonomy/term/

nevets’s picture

nevets commented

Note that the link simple points to the page you are on, but if that is what you want this is a starting point

<?php
$tid = arg(2);
print taxonomy_image_display($tid);
$term = taxonomy_get_term($tid);
print '<div class="tax-link">' . l($term->name, "taxonomy/term/$tid") . '</div>';

?>
<div>You can add what ever html/text you want</div>

If you images are always taller than a line of text you can float the div (class 'tax-link') right to place the name/link next to the image.

netentropy’s picture

netentropy commented

thanks

but which file do i add the code too... do i need to make a custom theme file? i am using garland

nevets’s picture

nevets commented

Once you add the taxonomy image module there is a new tab on the categories page that allows you to associate an image with a term.

Once you add the taxonomy information module there is a new text box on the edit page for each taxonomy term. Place the snippet in this box, modify the text part as needed and make sure the input format is "PHP code".

Then when you visit taxonomy/term/{tid} for that particular page you will see the new information at the top of the page.

netentropy’s picture

netentropy commented

is there anyway to get the images to appear in views? how about the introductions?

JirkaRybka’s picture

JirkaRybka commented

This is exactly why Category module was written!

Taxonomy has multiple weak points, and even with lots of other contrib modules is unable to provide even very basic hiearchic site structures (as for user experience).

With Category (Containers replace Vocabularies, Categories replace Terms), you've a nice page for each Category/Container, with node lists/teasers (customizable in several ways including Views integration) AND the body content for the Category/Container page itself, perfectly usable for section-descriptions and such (including pictures of course). It's even possible to comment or anything on Category/Container pages and much more...

The only drawback is that Category contains some bugs, so you might run into problems if wanting auto-generated menu items, or using the Forum module (the latter is possible to get working, I run such a config myself on production site, but that's not out-of-box).

If you're fine with these two weak points, then you can happily download the Category module, and get the whole thing fixed like a charm. :-)

netentropy’s picture

netentropy commented

thanks

i thought about checking it out but with the big bug disclaimer i am hesitant. i may check it out. how does it handle node relations...is it by created time or alpha or admin defined?

JirkaRybka’s picture

JirkaRybka commented

Disclaimer - yes, it's ugly thing... But I'm running Category over a year, since 4.7.x, and really didn't run into anything worse than being unable to define menu items from node-submission forms properly (but we decided to put only Categories themself into menu anyway; that may be well done by custom menu items), and the Forum issue which was for 5.x well solved by http://drupal.org/node/117172 . 6.x is going to be better.

Node relations - now I'm unsure if I understood the term properly... But basically Category works a lot like Taxonomy, you've a similar Category selector on node-submission forms, you may make Categories required, free tagging... And it also works like Book module - you may use Categories as nested pages, or turn any other node into a category. There's a lot of stuff possible, but basically Category is a replacement for (suboptimal) core modules Book and Taxonomy, which keeps a lot of functionality from these. (For now, there's a 'Taxonomy wrapper' allowing even usage of some Taxonomy-dependent modules with Category.)

The aim of Category is to allow easy and clean hiearchic structures and proper Category-pages (as far as I know), the whole Category module was created as a rework of Taxonomy and Book to be placed into core, but now it lives it's period of maturing as a contrib. I would like it in core better, but that's impossible unless completely debugged, and core-maintainers persuaded :-/

sepeck’s picture

sepeck commented

The categories module is probably not a sustainable approach long term. It abuses the node system in ways that will not be implemented into Drupal core. Also, the originator of the module is on holiday for quite some time.

-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain

-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide

JirkaRybka’s picture

JirkaRybka commented

In the other hand, Taxonomy is long-term insufficient for many common use cases. Without Category, I'll never use Drupal for the site I maintain, because otherwise Drupal doesn't satisfy one of very basic requirements for a 'normal' website. If Category is not clean enough, well - needs work. If there's no volunteer to do it - that's other story. Maybe it's even story of the 'bad publicity' the Category module got. But the functionality of Category (as well as Views and CCK and probably few more) elevates Drupal's usability a few whole levels up, and I believe the community will really benefit from incorporating these (functionalities, that is) into core in some way. THIS is what really counts for the user, not API perfection and such...

End of my off-topic message. Please forgive me ;)

sepeck’s picture

sepeck commented

Well, you will have to take that up with the current maintainer of Category module, but my personal belief is that approach using it long term is doomed. As a contributed module it is perfectly fine for experimentation but for new users using it I figgure they will only be let down in the long run if they rely on it.

-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain

-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide

JirkaRybka’s picture

JirkaRybka commented

People wanting 'normal' CMS behavior have no choice. Drupal's core team obviously don't care about user's needs in this point, actually let them down already by rejecting Category into contrib (from where it can't do it's job perfectly, let's face it). Perhaps it's the story of old-school Drupal developers not wanting to drop their long-loved Taxonomy, but users will like quite other approach IMO. That's just a wild guess, I may be badly wrong, but it seems to me like that.

I'm trying to help with Category as much as I can, but I can't much. Don't understand how exactly it 'abuse' node system for one thing...

sepeck’s picture

sepeck commented

You also seem to have a serious mis-understanding about the development process.

-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain

-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide

JirkaRybka’s picture

JirkaRybka commented

That's quite possible... I just tried and failed on providing an user's feedback a few times, and obviously gained my other knowledge about the problem from what I read. I may easily be mistaken on inside-issues (and it'll not get better unless someone briefly clarify for me instead of just saying that I'm a mere ill-understanding bloke), but I feel that requiring in-depth knowledge for providing acceptable feedback is wrong: I think that non-biased newcomers are the MOST qualified to provide feedback from user's perspective.

But anyway, although that's a serious problem and question of Drupal being far from user-friendly currently, it's also a huge OFF TOPIC here. I wonder why I always find myself in discussions like this, on various hot topics - common opinions in the community always win no matter how strange, and without single word of explanation, so there's no point to continue this. I'll rather focus onto the issue queue (as I do for quite a while now), it's more useful...

Sorry for being emotive on these general matters, I know it's not a good practice. Also one of the reasons to quit this.
Bye.

sepeck’s picture

sepeck commented

I didn't react to your comments last time, this time I will.

Drupal's core team obviously don't care about user's needs in this point,

That's insulting and incorrect on top of it.

Dries cares very much for user needs. It may be that his and others experience over the past several years give him insight into approaches that will not work as well as familiarity with the code and performance. If you seriously don't think he cares then perhaps a little light reading of his blog posts on UI and performance. For more on the 'core team' see here. There are approx 3 people with commit rights at any given time and the rest are contributors and reviewers. Anyone can review and comment. When someone provides an opposing position reacting with anger and hostility is not necessarily the way to go. I don't see you as the victim and portraying yourself here or in the issue queue as such won't help you either.

actually let them down already by rejecting Category into contrib (from where it can't do it's job perfectly, let's face it).

There was quite a bit of discussion in the devel mail list archives back when Jaza was working on the concepts. It wasn't 'rejected' into contrib in any case so your starting assumption is wrong. It started in contrib. That is one of the purposes of the contributed modules. To develop, explore and test new ideas. Some of the ideas have migrated into Drupal core. Some have not.

Perhaps it's the story of old-school Drupal developers not wanting to drop their long-loved Taxonomy, but users will like quite other approach IMO. That's just a wild guess, I may be badly wrong, but it seems to me like that.

Making bitter, false and wild accusations to support your accusation doesn't make it anymore true nor does it help your case or reputation. Also, it tends to really irritate people.

I'm trying to help with Category as much as I can, but I can't much. Don't understand how exactly it 'abuse' node system for one thing...

You will have to research the devel list archives. The decisions that were made were made in the mail lists and the issue queues. All completely open and above board. Nothing was hidden, no nefarious plot was hatched.

I have seen threads were people try and explain things with an end result like your last post. So much so that I was dubious about even responding to any thread you posted in.

As you say, off topic.

-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain

-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide

JirkaRybka’s picture

JirkaRybka commented

Thanks a lot for this reply, which is really good IMO, and have good points in it. Getting no relevant reply and being called as stupid (or similar) is what always upset me (incorrectly perhaps), otherwise nothing wrong about this, and no insult meant (I need to explain that as non-native English speaker I sometimes have difficulty with explaining my points, which might even result in insults I'm not aware of).

Now that I got really good reply, serious, constructive, and longer than I even hoped for, I feel somehow required to also reply, briefly at least (or longer, sorry about that):

Drupal's core team obviously don't care about user's needs in this point,

Sorry about the statement being too quick, the word 'obviously' shouldn't be in there. But however, I included the words 'in this point', indicating that it was NOT a general opinion, it was only about how many times I already read users wanting this one and single behavior and developers saying "no way" or the like in threads and issues. Recently, that is - I admit that I didn't read the issue queue in its entire size, not to mention the mailing lists which are true scary in size. Your point about me not researching these sources is therefore fully correct, although I might argue that no human would be able to do so, given the size, time matters, and somewhere non-descriptivity of titles. I believe this (Category problem) is a commonly raised question, which would deserve a sort of summary post to explain for newcomers (needn't to be long) to link to. There seems to be quite demand for the feature, other CMS (Joomla) supports it (more or less), so if Drupal can't for some reason, it would be nice to explain, am I wrong? If done, I would be fine with it, perhaps even call it a sort-of sufficient solution to this problem.

If such a post already exists, then OK, I'm stupid to be unable finding it. Link welcome. ;-)) (No insult meant!)

Another issue where I feel not enough support (and where I might be totally wrong, I admit) is flat forum: To outline briefly - flat comment display is common requirement as far as I see, supported by Drupal visually, but broken by multiple misbehaviors caused by inheriting structures from threaded. There seems to be demand for bugfixes in the queue, patches too, but I see issues years old. I've been actually said to create my own contrib module just to fix a solitary senseless link in core via overrides - yes that was not from any higher person that "contributor" (which name I believe applies to me too), but still seems to be saying about the climate. On this single point, that is. I see a lot of progress elsewhere, and appreciate it. (After all, that's why I still spend my time on Drupal.) And BTW, I know there's a Flat Forum module, but if this is supposed to live in Contrib, then core should remove flat display setting completely to avoid confusion. (Not really a good idea, I know ;-)

approaches that will not work

Is a simple hiearchic structure, resembling directories with HTML files of different purpose (contents as well as introduction pages and navigation overviews where needed), the case that won't work? If so, then there are a lot more people on this planet, who needs to learn how things should be done. (No insult meant!)

It wasn't 'rejected' into contrib in any case so your starting assumption is wrong. It started in contrib.

As far as I read, it was proposed as core Taxonomy and Book overhaul. And as I see in the Category issue queue (forum incompatibility, numerous critical issues with the so called 'wrapper modules' - which seems to be a bit untidy practice by itself - replacing core modules - even to me): Such a thing is difficult to test from a contrib position by just hacking the core from outside. My personal feeling about that is (and again might be wrong) that Category is caught in desperate struggle for keeping up with core, rather than improving and maturing. It would be great if the community helped to provide what there's demand for - or else send a clear "won't fix" signal. I know that it's all volunteer-basis, I don't say anyone SHOULD do anything. I just say opinion, based on reading the Category queue (not entire, but quite a bit).

You are free to ignore the above paragraph, I'm just writing my ideas down. Particularly, what I need most, is to make Vocabularies (!) and (less important) Terms gain node-body-like abilities (and Category's Views embedding possibility), because the Vocabulary page is the first what end-user see while going down the hiearchy from front-page, so these pages are in fact sub-frontpages for major site sections, and so needs to be good looking and rich in contents. Once upon a time I tried to re-build my site on the Taxonomy basis, ready to do compromises too, but I greatly failed on this point, even with all the contribs I can find to be related.

Point #3 - fair enough, was too quick statement, and probably the wrong one too. Sorry. I'll avoid giving feedback on the atmosphere I feel next time, because it's matter of taste and may not be defended as valid point (although it still might affect people willing to contribute, if felt the same way by more than few).

Don't understand how exactly it 'abuse' node system for one thing...
.....
You will have to research the devel list archives.

I'm giving up at this point - if you can't give me a single-sentence clue as what, roughly, the word 'abuse' was supposed to mean here, to give me some starting direction, then I'm not going to waste days (and perhaps weeks given my limited time) on reading the whole archives to figure things out. Call me lazy for this, I'm OK with it, but this sort of answer is equal to no answer for me. (No insult meant!!!!! Just stating how it is for me.)

I have seen threads were people try and explain things with an end result like your last post.

I see your point, fair enough. But, funny thing, in my case it was NOT ANSWERING what drove me mad. I'm keen to learn, and correct my opinions if necessary, and I'm definitely NOT the sort of person who never read carefully, or never follow provided links and such. I only just hate to be sent to 'idiot-land' (No insult meant!!!) without slightest hint where to learn more. Reading the whole Drupal.org (even pre-filtered by Google search) is not within my possibilities.

Perhaps this brings up the question of pre-written replies to Frequently Asked Questions again - so BTW, do you think I should open an issue on this, under 'documentation' or the like? Or is this already discussed somewhere I don't see?

And I have also my bitter experiences, several times I tried to ask questions and raise issues which I believe were valid (not just Drupal.org and not just software), spent hours on careful explanations of my points - and the response was along the lines 'You don't understand', 'It's really saying to see that you're new here', or open insult. My points might be wrong, but how am I supposed to defend them against such irrelevant responses? So I got a bit allergic against this no-response manner. Please take this paragraph as my apologies for it being you I shouted at - although it certainly did it's job to break through the barrier and bring me a good reply. Not that I'm going to do it again consciously, certainly not. ;-) Emotions are strange thing. And Internet, in general, a very wild land. Drupal.org seems to me, still, peacefull paradise, if compared to the whole World-Wide-Web.

Disclaimer: I know that this is long, and I don't expect you to answer in detail. In fact, now I would be even fine with no answer, so don't waste time unless there are one or two really important points. I just wrote it so long, because trying to explain in short did a very bad service to me couple of times before (the above including).

netentropy’s picture

netentropy commented

which is why i wrote this thread in the first place. how using available technologies can we create the "normal" cms categories. it seems to be very possible using views and node hiearchies.

i think it would be a neat task to see if we could emulate joomla structure in drupal.

just to see if it can be done....for the most part i believe it can be....i think it would be a neat project and one i am willing to work on with someone....a drupal spoof of joomla if you will....not that joomla needs spoofing as i love it too

JirkaRybka’s picture

JirkaRybka commented

Sorry for being off-topic in the above.

I'm interested, too, if there's some other solution than Category, but I haven't found any yet.

sun’s picture

sun
Primary language German
Location Karlsruhe
commented

Q: Why is Category module abusing the node system?

A: See Drupal terminology: node system, taxonomy system. Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxonomy . Category module tries to turn terms into nodes by replacing the taxonomy system. Nodes do not have any relation or categorization by itself. Many other modules depend on taxonomy, so replacing this system with another was a inspiring approach, but generally is a bad idea.

Q: What is the future for Drupal core?

A: Search for 'outline' and 'book' in Drupal issues. pwolanin worked hard on a patch for D6, but AFAIK it was conceptionally rejected. The goal is to have generic outlining functions to build trees of any kind (content, menu, taxonomy, etc.). Given this info you might understand better why Category will not hit core.

Q: Why is there no FAQ?

A: I guess, because no one contributed a patch.

Q: How to build a Joomla!-like categorization in Drupal?

A: Besides reading http://drupal.org/node/179787#comment-276274 above, I suggest to forget the whole approach of Joomla!. It provides a limited hierarchy and limited categorization. A so-called 'introtext' and 'category image' may be defined in a view.

Sorry, gotta go now.

Daniel F. Kudwien
unleashed mind

Daniel 'sun' Kudwien
makers99

netentropy’s picture

netentropy commented

The proble is Drupal has too loose of a hierarchy (if you even want to say there is one) and Joomla is too restrictive.

I think most people would like to have to ability to create Sections ---> Cat ----> Sub Cat 1 ----> Sub cat2 with no problem. I know you can create this hierarchy in Drupal but for what purpose. There is no way to display it.

Joomla is too restrictive, you only get one two levels and the way it is presented is crappy and hard to change.

So here we are and why I asked.

I would like to recreate the hierarchy in Joomla to see if it can be done. Click on a link, takes you to a page where it lists all the "terms" (now called Categories) inside that menu link....clicking on those either take you to the blog style list of nodes in that term or other terms that are sub to the orginal term

Again i believe one is too restrictive and one is too loose...not every site in the world needs "tags" some just need good ol categories inside categories.

sepeck’s picture

sepeck commented

There are several contrib modules that deal with display. You can also theme by taxonomy terms. Check the downloads for one that may well suit your needs. Also, you may wish to listen to the recent Lullabot podcast rearding taxonomy.

-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain

-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide

sun’s picture

sun
Primary language German
Location Karlsruhe
commented

Taxonomy term description is displayed in feeds but not term pages
http://drupal.org/node/180719

Daniel F. Kudwien
unleashed mind

Daniel 'sun' Kudwien
makers99

vsr’s picture

vsr commented

Why don't you just use books for the fixed vocabulary, and free tagging in the taxonomy. Make your book(s) categories for the organization and allow people to free tag it with the taxonomy. Books is a core module. You see it used on this site in many places.You could make one book with all your categories in it or make several, one for each section - articles, faqs, news, newletters, and so on.

netentropy’s picture

netentropy commented

the biggest problem with this is that it just looks stupid. There is no container. So say you wanted to present a list of "categories" that you make in a book. there will always be a back link to your top page which you intended to be a category. They are all pages, really there is not reason to have child pages because they go into the rotation exactly like the normal page.

http://www.netentropy.com/blog

vsr’s picture

vsr commented

You could remove lines 491-94 from the book module to get rid of the link to the top. Looks very nice without it.