Vietnam group ownership has been mistakenly changed

The Google Translation of the Group Desciption:

Notice: All the items of discussion, question and answer, the event, the official recruitment switch DrupalVietNam.org.

All newly created thread will be deleted.

Since the current organizers have no desire to continue on Groups, I have no objection of repurposing the group as a general Geographic group. (And it's currently a Geographic group and not a working group.) I have no objection to removing the current organizers.

If this is changed, I do hope the new organizer tries to get a couple more organizers involved, and keep the group open (no 'by request' membeships.)

added details about events I organized

I really recommend letting Tom take over the Vietnam group. He's really one of the driving force for the Vietnamese Drupal community.

I don't know the original creator of the group, but he has indicated with his actions that he's not interested in maintaining this group. If this group is active, it should definitely be allowed to reopen with Tom as admin. It will benefit Drupalistas in Vietnam to have their g.d.o hub.

Dear Admins,

I don't know the history of this page or why it was shut down. But I can say that Tom Tran has been one of the most active people in Vietnam supporting and promoting Drupal. You can see here that Tom was instrumental in putting together the first large scale Drupal meetup in Vietnam:
http://groups.drupal.org/node/213588

There were over 100 people in attendance including representatives from the Vietnamese government. It would be a shame to do anything which would stunt the growth of Drupal in Vietnam.

I highly recommend Tom as a dedicated Drupaler in Vietnam.

We don't have a clear policy for this kind of thing, but I think the message at the message silverwing pointed to is pretty clearly against the purpose of the site. So I changed the group owner to Tom Tran. I'll leave it to you to decide how best to communicate this to the group and the previous owner. thehong is currently still an admin.

Dir admins of groups.drupal.org,

That's the group we created, it was not Tom Tran. In first times, I myself wrote a lot of articles for Vietnamese users to know and start using Drupal. At the time we have about 500 members, we have nice admin team, we decided to create drupalvietnam.org and move our small community there.

At the launch time of DrupalVietnam.org to now, we are still a very small community, how can we split us to 2 places -- drupalvietnam.org and groups.drupal.org/vietnam? So, I decided stop ppl by keep posting new content to groups.drupal.org/vietnam. I think we, the staff, have ability to do this.

At the launch time of DrupalVietnam.org, Tom Tran also said that his company will contribute a nice theme to DrupalVietnam.org, he also asked me to add him to admin of groups.drupal.org/vietnam. But, after that, he did nothing, no theme, you can see drupalvietnam.org is still using a adaptiveTheme. He was not serious, he does not respect us, that's why I remove him from groups.drupal.org, I am group admin, I have ability to do that, right? I have Shellingfox, MrSiNguyen, qBao, … as witnesses.

If Tom Tran wants create new group, it's his freedom, he can do that, start it, develop it, but please serious, he have to do that by himself to have community. Why you, admins of groups.drupal.org, robbed our work? So, you please regive the ownership of groups.drupal.org/vietnam back to me.

Thank you,

Andy

Update: @sreynen > thehong is currently still an admin.

Not really, Tom Tran kicked all of us after he get the group admin access.

- It's quite reasonable to keep all the content in one site. Example is http://groups.drupal.org/france where only annoucement could be posted.
- I think it's strange to take over without the current group organizers being asked/notified.
- With #4 and if #6 "Tom Tran kicked all of us after he get the group admin access" are true, it's unacceptable.

Even I don't know the deep reason, but I'd like to add: when people planned to relaunch http://drupalvietnam.org/ ("the new external site"), Tom Tran was also one of a few dozens of organization members. There was nobody against the creation of the new site. The message on g.d.o was pretty clear and pointed to the new site, so there is no reason that:

I just think at this phase our small and split community needs to keep at least ONE local group on d.org open and active which is the most natural place newbies will look for.

I'm quite sad that there is a community split here. But in this case, change the ownership when thing is not clear does not solve the problem.

Hi all, my name is Sang, currently sysadmin of drupalvietnam.org.

Here is some screenshot on the time building of DrupalVietNam.org, all of discussion agreed by all of us, include Tom Tran.

On Feb, 2012 we have an idea to grow up the Drupal community in Vietnam. We have plan and need some feature, which limit in groups.drupal.org and we choose grow it up at drupalvietnam.org.

We create group on facebook for discussion (https://www.facebook.com/groups/290827324304921/), all of user have admin access and here is the first update of Tom (Feb 12, 2012):

And here is the list of Staff for the drupalvietnam.org (planed) site (Feb 13, 2012):

We have offline discussion and email to Tom - because he can't join, and agreed with the feature of drupalvietnam.org, also Tom agreed he will lead the design for the new site:

Here is the mission of drupalvietnam.org by Tom (Feb 28, 2012):
DrupalVietnam.org -
"An initiative to grow Vietnam’s Drupal Community”

Mission:

DrupalVietnam.org (DV) là một tổ chức phi lợi nhuận với mục đích hỗ trợ và phát triển cộng đồng Drupal tại Việt Nam. DV đã được thành lập để quảng bá sức mạnh của Drupal CMS, một nền tảng ứng dụng web mã nguồn mở. Chúng tôi làm việc với các công ty hàng đầu của Việt Nam và những cá nhân trong lĩnh vực này để giúp tổ chức các sự kiện về Drupal (meetups, hội thảo và Drupal Camps) tại Việt Nam. Bên cạnh đó DV sẽ phối hợp với Drupal Association và các chuyên gia Drupal quốc tế để tạo điều kiện thuận lợi cho việc hội nhập của Dupalers Việt Nam vào cộng đồng toàn cầu.

DrupalVietnam.org (DV) is a non-profit organization that aims at supporting and growing the Drupal community in Vietnam. DV has been formed to educate about and advocate the power of Drupal CMS, a flexible open source web application platform. We work closely with Vietnam’s leading companies and individuals in the field to help organizing Drupal events (meetups, workshops and Drupal camp) in Vietnam. We will also collaborate with Drupal Association and international Drupal Specialists to facilitate the integration of Vietnamese Dupalers into the global community.

I created dev site on gotpantheon.com and i added ssh pub key for Tom on Feb 29, 2012:

Mar 5, 2012: Minh ask Tom about the process of the design:

Tom no reponse any process of theme develop and we use adaptive theme for the development.

We have plan to lauch at Apr 15, 2012: http://groups.drupal.org/node/222499 (posted by khanh on Apr 5, 2012).

================
Tom is in team with us from the begin of an idea building an website for Vietnamese, which run on local Datacenter, and we can add more features for the plan grow-up the community.

But he do nothing, he discussion with us, request admin access on groups.drupal.org/drupal-vietnam and leave us.

I just want to recap:
- Tom join with us from the begin of the building website
- Tom asking to be an admin of drupal vietnam group on drupal.org
- He know and agree close group on drupal.org for the focus growth website:
- He request re-open group without asking any one of us, why, we are still admin position and include him, right?

I don't understand why Tom Tran can do it, it's not fairly.

The first question is why was he kicked out without any notification (if this is true). It is not about who created the group. It is about contribution, growing the Drupal community together or with individual effort. It is not about how much everyone have done and what everyone has done as it is volunteering work. The rest is finger pointing, destructiveness without going for the same vision of Drupal Vietnam. If you guys have a problem with each other, talk in person to each other. The rest is just childish games. Diplomacy has never been solved on paper or online discussions. I hope this issue won't get into a big Ego shooting between parties. This is a waste of time and really not the open source spirit.

P.S.:
At the end what counts is what you do and not what you say you will do. I have done nothing.

I haven't looked through the full history here, because I believe most of it is irrelevant. I see a few more important points that seem to be misunderstood:

So, I decided stop ppl by keep posting new content to groups.drupal.org/vietnam. I think we, the staff, have ability to do this.

You do not have that ability on groups.drupal.org. No one does. Groups on groups.drupal.org should be active. Actively making a group inactive is not an approved use. Anyone is welcome to leave groups.drupal.org and create their own sites. Using groups.drupal.org to promote external websites is even okay in some contexts. Making a group inactive is never okay.

If Tom Tran wants create new group, it's his freedom, he can do that, start it, develop it, but please serious, he have to do that by himself to have community.

Nobody owns the community here. Anyone is free to contribute. Groups are often started by one person and later maintained by another. We do not require each new maintainer to start a new group. In fact, we actively discourage new groups that are too similar to existing groups. When we have a group that is not being used, we seek out new people to take it over. In this case, someone volunteered. The group has since been active, and that's what we want.

Why you, admins of groups.drupal.org, robbed our work?

I removed your group ownership because you used groups.drupal.org in a way that is not allowed. I did not contact you because your statement about leaving groups.drupal.org led me to believe you were no longer interested in what happened here. That was apparently an incorrect understanding on my part, and I should have contacted you.

I hope this is all clear now. Let me know if you have further questions.

I supported having Tom take over the Vietnam group. I thought not having a group for Vietnam would have a negative impact for users. Groups is about having one site where people can connect with others on their different interests/locations. And not having a Vietnam group here didn't seem right.

Some other points:

1. I believe that groups are not "owned" by a person or people. What happens in a group should be in the best interest of the users.

2. When the group description was changed by thehong to include "All newly created thread will be deleted" it effectively became abandoned. Membership had been "By Request" so no new members would be added. So not notifying the previous organizers isn't that big of a deal for me, although it would have been nice. (Or even a discussion posts about it.)

3. I believe that you can have both a Group and drupalvietnam.org

4. Since Tom took over, there have been over 20 new members joining the group. That shows me there's still interest in the group.

5. regarding comment #9 - there are obviously some issue, but unless they negatively impact Groups.d.o, it doesn't change my mind about making sure the group remains open. If these issues start to effect the group (for example, Tom doesn't allow event posts from the former organizers to be in the group) then we can work on those issues.

6. It would be nice to have a link to drupalvietnam.org in the group description.

7. I do think that changing the group name to "Drupal Vietnam" http://groups.drupal.org/drupal-vietnam seems suspicious, considering there's no link to the external site anywhere.

I haven't looked through the full history here, because I believe most of it is irrelevant.

We took a lot of time to explain, you say it's irrelevant. What are you doing here?

I'll leave it to you to decide how best to communicate this to the group and the previous owner. thehong is currently still an admin.

I removed your group ownership because you used groups.drupal.org in a way that is not allowed.

sreynen, is that same sreynen?

You do not have that ability on groups.drupal.org. No one does. Groups on groups.drupal.org should be active… Making a group inactive is never okay.

Ok, I think this rule is good. But, you as an administrator, we have to notify me or someone is Vietnam Group's staff? Why don't you?

Nobody owns the community here.

Yes, right. But with our contribution to the community, is it worth a discussion before you do anything on our group?

Anyone is free to contribute.

Yes, I do agree. But no-one must be an group admnistrator to contribute.

I did not contact you because your statement about leaving groups.drupal.org led me to believe you were no longer interested in what happened here.

It's a lie for what you did.

That was apparently an incorrect understanding on my part, and I should have contacted you.

Yes, please grant back to me the admin access.

I've asked other groups.drupal.org administrators to look at this.

Clearly this is an issue which stems from internal miscommunication and as Tom said, this is not the place for it.
Drupal groups is about reaching anyone within your audience of selection. While I do think that local communities should be centralized into one location, it's not for the admins to decide where you can or cannot post inside a global open source community, when the groups are supposed to be open. There are people who are more comfortable using g.d.o than drupalvietnam.org and vice versa.

The WORST solution for EVERYONE, especially the Drupal user base in Vietnam is that there are two factions. So, for the benefit of Drupal community, please resolve your internal issues and try to reach a consensus in this.

I do recommend keeping the group open, but try to find different use cases for both, even if you want to centralize the communication to drupalvietnam.org. For example, maybe g.d.o could be a central place for english communication, whereas drupalvietnam.org would be Viet only.

As local open source leaders, it's not about you or how much work you've done. It's about the community and how you can help it grow and flourish! Nobody wants to undermine, destroy or hinder anyone's work. We all want Drupal to succeed both globally and in Vietnam.

I will leave it to the g.d.o admins to set the status as they see it fit, but I recommend closing this issue, because this needs to be resolved internally and right now I'm seeing good activity in the group, which is what we all want.

Please help me understand: Its not logical. Why apply for admin and then close the same group?

Because you want have a title: "Administration of Drupal Viet Nam community" and use that for host all event you created. That is very bad and not fair.

I think everyone need to know its, it is not:

Right here it is only an argument between old admins against me alone, which doesn't represent the community's voice.

We just want to focus and grow the Drupal community in Viet Nam. We don't want there is 2 community here. And you agreed with this before.

@afox: Agree with you, we can see #7 comment by jcisio. France group doing it well.

As sreynen asked other g.d.o admins to look at this, I think we'll have to wait just a bit. I'd add some facts, BTW, because I don't think many people know it:
- It was "By Request" because of a few subversives, they are kicked, then joined (even with a new account) multiple times a day, posted irrelevant things. Think like #1382008: Ongoing Vietnamese forum spam reports (but not exactly the same).
- Membership was "By Request", but every request was quickly accepted.

Also I think if the "by request" or "new posts are not allowed" status is not allowed, a simple remind should work.

#23 that why I wrote:

Also I think if the "by request" or "new posts are not allowed" status is not allowed, a simple remind should work.

With the announcement that "new posts are not allowed", we of course no longer accepted new members. We didn't see the problem with international members. You saw that, why didn't you tell us, "a simple remind should work" as I've just stated, instead of a takeover?

This issue should not have existed at all. I think actions could be reverted and all things remain internal issues.

I think the actions taken so far of adding Tom as a group owner are reasonable. I agree with sreynen and silverwing's comments that it is inappropriate to delete new posts in a group just to try to merge them into another venue. It's true that it would have been better to contact the current admins before making Tom the admin. There is a policy for taking over an abandoned group that probably applies (more or less) to this situation and should have been followed.

So, given the advice that the group be opened to new members and that new posts not be deleted*, who should the group moderators of the group be?

*It seems ironic to talk about "robbing content" when the group owners were deleting content...if someone deleted my content that would feel like it had been robbed from me.

Dear friends,

I'm really sad when I read this thread. I always hope that we should contribute the better products to our community than having this kind of discussions. Let's do the good things for our community first, the best things will come back to you.

@Tom Tran: I understand your ambition, let's continue and everyone will understand you.

In deeply mind!
HaiNN

@greggles I want to make it clear. That announcement about deleting new content being said, I don't think "group owners" were deleting any content. As a group user, I received all notification emails. That annoucement was nothing but a warning, no one deleted posts because of that message.

So, given the advice that the group be opened to new members and that new posts not be deleted*, who should the group moderators of the group be?

Ok, let previous admins continue their job.

#29 Tom Tran, if you want to follow the procedure:

• Please post that post in both English and Vietnamese.
• Please act as if you were not group owner.
• Please revert your actions (kicking ALL other admins) when 1/ nothing has been discussed 2/ there has been not a concessus.

Edit: Ooops, I didn't read your link, your post is irrelevant here.

As a Drupal user I'm going to add my two cents:
- Be bold, even if you are admin, global admin, does not mean you are always right. Say sorry, apologize if you did something wrong. That is way to keep relationship healthy.
- Tom Tran did not provide design work for DrupalVietnam.org you will need to say something and sorry, apologize if necessary. That is first step there you can explain why you didn't do that (you don't agree with vision, or you need to be super admin to do anything, or anything else?).
- The Hong removed Tom Tran, you will need to do the same (One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself).
- Finally, I do agree that this group should remain open, a link (with a short explanation) to DrupalVietnam should be provided, not to replace this group, but to provide an alternative way to Vietnamese Drupal members to get help, contribute and more. This group's admins could still be Tom Tran, The Hong, Hai Nam jcisio and other old admins as long as they are going to continue to contribute and follow agreed policies/procedures. They don't need to be friends to do that I think.
Good luck and hope this will resolve soon.

added Alethia as co-organizer of Drupal Meetup Hanoi

While I do mostly agree with #32, the problem is a bit more complicated, as if the ownership is given back to thehong, Tom Tran couldn't right now be an admin. If I understand correcly, what proved in #9 basically says that

• Tom Tran promised to do something for the community site (drupalvietnam.org),
• Then he asked for an admin role of gdo/v without doing anything previously on gdo/v.
• Then failed to do what he promised without any answer.
• Then his admin role has been taken back and kicked out (I don't know who removed the role and kicked him out, but I agree it's an extreme action given that the group is open. I think we need an explain, even not here).

With all that, Tom Tran lied to be an admin, so he could not be an admin right now. And given that the group is open, he does not need to be an admin to contribute.

Let's me iterate:

• thehong created this group long time ago, contributed hundreds of tutorials, helped hundreds of user. While it is not important to be an admin, it is a fact, it is why he said about robbing (reply to #25) and was frustrated (his edited #30).
• This group was "by request" to avoid vandalism (BTW not by a bot like #1382008: Ongoing Vietnamese forum spam reports), every group membership request was acted quickly.
• Then this group was basically closed since http://groups.drupal.org/node/224724, then in the group description. Not a member was against that decision.
• "Former" group admins expressed their desire to continue maintaining this group.

Conclusion? While the current group admins decided to "close" the group, it is not the ultimate purpose. They just wanted to consolidate two places for contribution in Vietnamese. If it is not allowed, that decision could be rolled back. I think gdo/v will become a place like http://groups.drupal.org/france where only event announcements are allowed (to reach a maximum number of users). The first decision on this issue was on the illusion of this group had been abandonned, but turned out not. Also, the usually procedure for abandonned groups was not followed.

Change the title to clarify the situation.

jcisio,
I suggested group admins to be like that and it serves two purposes:
- Old group admins can continue to maintain the group, as usual, as they did for recent years. The fact Tom Tran is another admin won't prevent them.
- New group admin (in this situation, Tom Tran) can prove what he can do for the community out of good speeches. Veterans contributed a lot, and will continue to do so, they are worth their admin titles.
I believe just after a few months we will all see outcomes.

#35 Tom Tran does not need to be an admin to contribute. And when the community in large accepts him, nothing could prevent him to apply to be admin. That why I said "he could not be an admin right now". He was admin by mistake, we should fix it. I'm quite sure that a few other former admins will retire, but it's something that we will talk later, when this issue is fixed.

Other admins or GDO admins can accept him as admin right now because they think it is a good trade off for the community. #36 is simply my POV, I just don't think that is a good trade off.

I'm a long-time member in drupal.org and an active member in the local community. I agree with Tiendx2002.

I suggested group admins to be like that and it serves two purposes...

- Tom Tran is very active right now and would like to maintain the group. Thanks and welcome.
- If old group admins would like to come back, why don't we welcome. I heard that you prevented to post to the group in drupal.org, that was a bad idea, please don't do so now.

I'm seeing that Tom Tran is currently in the North of the country. Old group admins are in the South. You are in different regions. Please lead local communities in each regions and contribute all to drupal.org. Please all of you lead the group. Vietnamese community needs both South & North admins. We should not have only one side.

Time will answer who are the best for the leader positions.

Please all of you lead the group.

I think this is a good resolution. I'm sure it would be hard for everyone to work together, but I don't think anyone has done anything that requires removal as organizers. Everyone has made mistakes, but I think all of these mistakes can be corrected. Specifically:

• The previous organizers made a mistake in discouraging activity on groups.drupal.org. This has been explained already, and I believe it is now understood.
• I made a mistake in not encouraging the previous organizers to correct their mistake before suggesting they might be removed as organizers. I recognize this now, and would like to correct it by suggesting they be re-added as organizers.
• Tom made a mistake in trying to prevent the previous organizers from helping with the group after they recognized their mistake. I think Tom can correct this mistake by adding them back as organizers.

I'm not asking anyone to be happy about what has happened. I am asking everyone to give each other a chance to do better now. Does that sound okay to everyone?

All OK. Great.

Agree with #39 and #40, All OK.

#42 is this a joke? Don't you realize that you were granted admin by the misunderstanding about other admins, by the disrespect of the normal procedure? This whole issue is just a mistake. And now you want to escalate with your own rules, don't you?

I suggest revert all actions, let thehong be back at group Manager admin, re-add other admins as admin, (and optionally add Tom Tran as admin as it looks like other users want that).

I agree with your very last comment.

But what did you do? You didn't follow Scott, but

I made an effort to stop arguing and started an open discussion to:

revitalize the group
define some common goals
listen to community reactions and find best solution for the group
a way to determine a stronger admin structure than it has been before (Do-ocracy & distributed representatives, instead of all admins from the same spot)

In English: http://groups.drupal.org/node/268293
In Viet: http://groups.drupal.org/node/268463

I have been granted this role, and my responsibility should it be to seek positive outcomes and not making decisions in a hurry, or I have to follow any subject pressure from few individuals, without understanding what a potential re-promoted admin plans to do with his role. The community needs a more balanced / active admin panel, that will much better represent the regional communities.

I'm Vietnamese Drupaler, therefore I can express my voice, the same for trungonly (don't exclude us, without us there are no communities for you to lead). And what I said was accepted. It is no longer your decision Tom, it is Scott's decision now, just he said it in polite manner.
So stop stalling Scott's decision, you are given a chance, don't lose it.

Tom, http://groups.drupal.org/node/268293 looks reasonable to me, but it doesn't seem to me that you're following what you said about "Members who have ADMIN ROLE, are never allowed to kick other members, unless you can prove efforts of explaining and waring these unwanted members before cancel their membership." As I understand, the previous organizers were given no warning before they were removed. I think that mistake should be corrected.

without understanding what a potential re-promoted admin plans to do with his role

All previous group organizers now understand the importance of keep the group active, not discourage participation. Beyond that, what they do isn't really your responsibility. If they do something harmful to the group, we can have a discussion about what to do about that after it happens. But you don't all need to share the same agenda to work in the same group. Plenty of groups have organizers that never talk to each other, and each organize subsections of the larger community. Group nodes on groups.drupal.org almost never directly reflect the organization of the community. The Drupal Code of Conduct collaboration section specifically talks about working with others who have different goals. That's very common.

You don't have to take responsibility for the other organizers at all. You don't even need to add them back yourself. I'll be happy to take responsibility for that decision and add them myself. I'm only asking you to agree to allow them to participate as organizers without fighting about it. Is that something you can do?

I have been become a member of Drupal for about 4 years. And follow your guys discussion for long.
Here is my opinion. It is great that Tom to ask to re-open the group. There is no reason to close a group which many people have already joined and enjoyed it and open a new website.
We should keep these twos
The administrator might be very busy so he cannot manage them all. Why dont we promote someone to be vice-admin? We should have 1 or 2 admins in the north, 1 or 2 in the south so they can manage all the issues and hold up events for the both two regions.

6 admins in Sai Gon is really good sample of bad admin structure that causes poor performance / involvement (Mostly inactive members, new members increasing slowly last years, very low drupal technical skill). Vietnam bigger only Sai gon . We can really do better. My suggestion is The Hong and Tom Tran to manage one in North, one in South, is enough for now.

Time is limited. Group is open anyway and needs real work from admin board? How can previous admins do well for everything: job to make living, admin roles in both places (Drupalvietnam.org and Group)?

I have little son, still fighting to gain 1 hour more each day for him. It is still so hard to me. If I were in prevous admin's situation I would really confused. So I think Scott, you should consider to ask them, confirm they are happy to be added and ready to work 2 more hours each day.

#47, #48: you are in the same team with Tom, one also is group admin on Fb, the other is an organizer, however, let's be objective when comment. This is not a place for discussing about new rules.

#49 I don't really understand.

#54 Revert title change. Group reopened, it is done, it is not what we are discussing here. Don't you mind having a concensus first before taking any action?

#55 jcisio what do you really want? you agreed to close the group, Tom has to try hard to re-open it. We must thank him to reactivate it. You as admin must behave in better manner. Now I can understand clearly why kicking out member and closing down the group happened. I have a son and I know how children behave. I can see there is something similar here. I used Drupal for 4 years and have been member for nearly 3 years so I have the right to express my opinion. I myself would not vote for you to be promoted in admin board if there was a poll.

#56 There are 2 problems:
- Group closed: it has been solved
- Ownership mistakenly changed: it still there
It's not that you created the issue you can decide the issue title. Only the subject on which we discuss here changes it.

#57 Let's not be off topic.

Also I'm out now. After all, what I wanted to say has been said, particularly in #33 and #43. I don't want to argue any longer. I'll accept the outcoming concensus if any.

The (really) last one: when I read #57 and know what bingtran meant, I re-reread #49 (that I did not understand). Now I get it ;-) You simply suggest that when someone is admin at ABC, he should not be admin at XYZ. I can't keep laughing ^_^ I don't have a son but a daughter. I don't have 1 hour more for my daughter because I go to bed at 10 pm instead of 1 am, making my day much shorter. You are also correct: no more time for Drupal meet up afterwork :( Okay, not ranting any more, but still finding a solution. Maybe http://groups.drupal.org/node/269268 would help me.

It is becoming more fun.
#56 Tom Tran said

If you remove the authors topic once again, I have to remove you from the admin panel, and leave it to the global admin to deal with it.

And #58 jcisio change topic title (again).
Now I'm watching what Tom Tran is going to do.
If he doesn't remove jcisio he failed to do what he said on #56.
But if he does, let's see what happened after a few days, few back and forth discussions, how things go from #42 where Tom Tran expressed his respect to jcisio and #56 threatened to remove jcisio from admin board.

Are you going to make your decision(s) in hurry Tom? (ref. #42)

Scott,

#46:

As I understand, the previous organizers were given no warning before they were removed. I think that mistake should be corrected.

We have a warning for this, and agree with you:

All previous group organizers now understand the importance of keep the group active, not discourage participation.

And i agree with jcisio:#56

There are 2 problems:
- Group closed: it has been solved
- Ownership mistakenly changed: it still there

I think you have solution:

You don't even need to add them back yourself. I'll be happy to take responsibility for that decision and add them myself. I'm only asking you to agree to allow them to participate as organizers without fighting about it. Is that something you can do?

But see what Tom do? I think we still have many problem here and need to fix it for future issue and maybe Drupal code of conduct will have a new guide from this.

We have 3 issue as you wrote:

• The previous organizers made a mistake in discouraging activity on groups.drupal.org. This has been explained already, and I believe it is now understood.
• I made a mistake in not encouraging the previous organizers to correct their mistake before suggesting they might be removed as organizers. I recognize this now, and would like to correct it by suggesting they be re-added as organizers.
• Tom made a mistake in trying to prevent the previous organizers from helping with the group after they recognized their mistake. I think Tom can correct this mistake by adding them back as organizers.

I think the first one is very clear here but still have 2 problem need to fix.

@Tom: The mistake still exist, please don't change title back to the issue fixed.

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I am closing this issue since there have not been progress in the past 8 years. Users still post on the group, and administrator users have not been changed.