This is for sure... disappointing
I've now been working with Druapal 2 months and still only gaining on the process a bit a day.
It is disappointing to think that no one has taken the time to share quick and easy ways to do complete applications.
I mean "complete applications" for doing common things in websites.. explaining the modules they used, the way they interfaced the modules, the way they set up the API for the module, etc. The way their completed applications work.
A few examples:
A slideshow
A download files module
A Weblinks module
A quiz with accumlated values for answers
A news module with all the tools to put up news content fast with good graphics tools for reader interest.
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I know there are large numbers of completed modules for Drupal. Modules that are comprised from several basic 3rd party and core Drupal modules. There are a myriad of completed applications that work, but no one is sharing them. I know they're available, because there are large numbers of Drupal sites (some of the best on the web). Is this supposed to be some kind of society
of programmer/coder peers that relish in a great CMS, but anyone else trying to learn it has to go through ritualist rites of passage.
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This is the current process, and I don't think I've made it sound worse than it is
Spend months learning what the different core and third party modules do, then learn how they interrelate, then learn how to apply them in sites. Hopefully, after about six months you attain to passing over the learning threshold where you can develop competent websites of your own.
Is this the way it's intended?
Where are completed applications, built with Drupal Core and 4rd party modules explained and shared?
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There a tutorials on all the Drupal modules scattered all over the web, and to be honest I think many people have gone to a great deal of trouble to create screencasts, etc. The screencast deal with using the modules and how to use the respective API, etc. Complete applications that actually are needed on websites don't appear to be available.
The PRINCIPAL thing lacking is examples of how the Drupal core and 3rd party modules are applied to make a complete application that people can use on their sites.
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Who is really being served with Drupal the way things are?
Currently, I'd say coders and programmers who understand what they're seeing when they view the code of a module script.
Afterall, they have the programming skills to build sites at base levels and they can code for anything they want. Drupal is like a DHTML to them. Drupal just extends the basic functions of something like a DHTML or Javascript tool. This saves site programmers a great deal of time. Time they would have spent otherwise coding and using base level tools to build the functions into a site desired.
So... natually you're going to have a happy community of programmers, as opposed to a mostly confused group of non-coder site builders. Site builders that are trying to apply the Drupal module tools, but don't have the programming background to really make this dog hunt.
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It is good we have such a strong base of programmer users, because they contribute to the community with some very outstanding modules and information.
Now.. all that needs to be done is provide a best of both worlds for the programmers/coders and the CMS site builders who don't have the knowledge nor desire to code/program for their sites.
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For non-programmer type site builders like me...
Where are completed applications, built with Drupal Core and 4rd party modules explained and shared?
Comments
I understand
domineaux,
I understand where you are coming from, but you have to give it some time. I have worked with several CMS packages and Drupal is by far the best I've seen. But there is a learning curve that is a bit unavoidable.
You might have your expectations set a bit high. The way I see it, Drupal will be very good to you IF YOU INVEST TIME IN IT.
Good luck and don't get discouraged!
I'm not discouraged... There
I'm not discouraged...
There is light at the end of the tunnel.
I've been going back through all my HTML and PHP books, brushing up on code.
My complaint is principally the lack of "completed applications" information and documents. Imformation that would help anyone new to Drupal to get a jump start.
Like this?
http://drupal.org/node/220829
http://newskicks.com/content/how-i-created-newskicks-drupal-5.0-%3F.html
RIGHT ONThat's exactly what
RIGHT ON
That's exactly what I'm talking about.
Too bad those kinds of documents aren't available on the Drupal homesite, or maybe I should say easily accessible.
Reality...
While i agree it would be nice, writing up how you did everything on a site is rather tiresome. besides, very few want the exact same thing from a site. drupal modules are built with flexibility to do something general. the power comes from being able to make it do what YOU want.
out of the box, you can have a website up and running in 10 minutes. Plug-in a few modules and it can do some incredible things with little work. the time and effort comes in customization. while you may not find a write-up about an entire site, the drupal handbook as all kinds of instances on how to do certain things in particular.
you can't expect to create some spectacular state-of-the-art application by stumbling across documentation of someone who put in a lot of time and hardwork doing exactly what you want to do.
now by no means am i saying that this is what you want to do. it's just that there are a lot of posts like this that come across drupal. honestly, i came from the same way of thinking you are coming from atm. i used drupal for about 4 mos. and walked away b/c i couldn't seem to find the "help" i wanted/needed.
well after about a month or so, i came back and just started reading. I started here.
I read the getting started guides and moved onto theming. when i wanted to know how to do something in particular i searched the "Customization - Tutorials, Snippets and HowTo" section. Also, if it was in regards to a module, I went to that particular project page and started looking for the issue queue's to see if others had similar questions/problems. Doing this is what really helped me.
And of course on top of all this i used the search function frequently. If you want to learn even more, try the Drupal Dojo. If you are interested in social networking, a well respected community member, Michelle, has quite a nice site with some write-ups which you can find here and here.
Good luck and hang in there. And for the most part I do agree with you that there could be more.
:cD
STyL3 said,"While i agree it
STyL3 said,"While i agree it would be nice, writing up how you did everything on a site is rather tiresome".
This isn't what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about parts of sites that are handled by complete modules in CMS like Xoops and Joomla.
You can acquire a complete downloads module in either Xoops or Joomla.
You cannot do that with Drupal.
and so forth and so on...
As an example for helping others to learn Drupal
There is no complete downloads module, so it would be a great training tool if a site builder who had an excellent downloads application on his/her site would share how it was done, what modules were used, etc. This would make for great screencasts and would serve an entirely different type of Drupal user.
I wouldn't expect a person that did that to provide information about his/her site or even share the domain. It is the processes involved to apply the different Drupal modules to accomplish the building of a "complete application" (not a website) that we need.
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So far, I don't believe it is necessary to code/program to use Drupal. It does however take a lot of time to study the available modules, study how they relate with other modules, and determine just how you expect to workaround to building your site with the available Drupal modules. It has taken me 2 months of working with Drupal to determine this.
Why have a stayed with it. I realize that when I do finally get a handle on Drupal I will be able to create more effective and user friendly sites than I have with other CMS.
further explanation...
Now I'm confused, what exactly are you looking for?
What do you mean when you say "I'm talking about parts of sites that are handled by complete modules in CMS like Xoops and Joomla. You can acquire a complete downloads module in either Xoops or Joomla."?
Without completely understanding, I do know that Drupal is not Xoops/Joomla. Modules are broken down to keep Drupal as flexible as possible, which is one reason I use it. If these CMS' seem to work for you, then they are great options.
domineaux:
"Why have a stayed with it. I realize that when I do finally get a handle on Drupal I will be able to create more effective and user friendly sites than I have with other CMS."
Isn't this all that matters? And while documentation has been some what of a weak point, it is being addressed. It won't however happen overnight. The Drupal Dojo is doing some great work in this arena as of late, and will likely continue to do so. Other than that, the best suggestion I can make is to document what you learn and how things fit together and share it. Instead of just proposing a bunch of issues, think of a way to solve it.
STyL3 said,"Now I'm
STyL3 said,"Now I'm confused, what exactly are you looking for?"
You need to re-read what I wrote.
"share it", do you realize what you said? I've made it very clear where I am with this CMS, and it sure isn't approaching a skill level to instruct others. LOL
By the way... I have made suggestions on ways to solve the poor education of users (not programmers) and was ignored in favor of:
"status quo" is the way to go.
It always amuses me how user comments about the way things are being done are rebutted.
They are generally defended by "why don't you take on that project"... like that makes any sense at all. LOL
the need to clarify
just to clarify my responses, i'm not trying trying to be confrontational. when i mention the fact to take on the project, i just mean start it up and bring attention to it. you don't have to be an expert to bring awareness and try to find a solution to something.
as you go through drupal and find useful ways to do things comment on it. you have clearly pointed out the fact that this isn't much out there, so if you are to continue using drupal, you will learn more and more how things work and can pave the path for other new users to the community.
also, the drupal "experts" don't necessarily know what it is people don't understand or have a hard-time realizing that not everyone has the same knowledge level.
just like you may not want to hear "why don't you take on that project", seasoned drupal professionals don't like hearing "i can't do this b/c i don't know anything." and believe me when i'm saying this, i'm more in the "i can't do this b/c i don't know anything" camp. BUT when i have an issue and try and take it on myself, i find that others are A LOT MORE helpful since i'm putting forth the effort.
after hanging around here for the past year or so, i have seen many ppl come and go who just want answers...and unfortunately, drupal isn't quite there yet without some level of effort.
as i've mentioned, a couple times all ready, i believe drupal dojo would help you quite a bit with many issues. if there's something you don't find, a dojo member may be more than happy to cover the topic in one of their lessons.
The software is free so you can afford the books.
I spent quite a lot on the books (just search "Drupal" on Amazon.)
This is like anything you do that is more complicated than planting flowers. It would be wonderful if you could stuff your brain over night but it's just not how things work. I would love it too if you could just install everything ala exe but this isn't Microsoft so you pay your dues. It's finally worth it but don't let anyone talk you into building them a website till you have seen and done it all.
Remind me I said this when I'm freaking out while trying to install to my sites. Good luck to us both.
I don't expect it to be like
I don't expect it to be like mass quanitities of information "at once".
The software is free so you can afford the books.
Tell me about the books, my experience is they are either too simple or they go into hard coding almost immediately.
I've not read a decent review on any of the Drupal books that would encourage newbs to buy them.
Free software, but free has it's possibilities for debate among the myriad versions of CMS available.
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There are just better ways to teach, tutor or share information valuable to users than we have now.
Currently, the practice is to tell users all about this or that Drupal module and sometimes the integrating of a couple modules.
I recently saw a screencast of CCK and views. Pretty informative about the two modules, but nothing about putting together a viable application package.
Kinda reminds me of someone that talks "all about" something, but never tells you anything you can use or how to use it.
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Don't get me wrong there are many people that are doing alot more than their share, that is sure. I appreciate all their efforts and goodwill towards this community.
Education of new users is inadequate, and hanging onto status quo methods are not working. We have tools now that were not available 5 years ago, and they're not being exploited, i.e., screencasts with quality viewing.