By Wolfflow on

Sorry to clone but I saw to late that this was the right Forum for my Post:

Here is my Support question:
View Frontpage for anonymous visitors that have no view-content permissions.

Any Hint will be very appreciate.

⋅ Categories: Drupal 6.x

Comments

Wolfflow’s picture

Wolfflow commented

Is that support request so complex that nobody has a hint?

Or is this not implemented yet in Drupal 6.2 core for friendly usability features?

Please give me a Hint?

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Phillip Mc’s picture

Phillip Mc commented

it's not in core. the front page.module will allow you to achieve that.

Wolfflow’s picture

Wolfflow commented

Thank You PhilK, That is very kind of you.

Hopefully you agree with me that the frontpage Module will give me the chance just to make only one Page reacheable by anonymous user and not a small set of pages what I really see as a very neded feature that should be default on a core
CMS like Drupal?

Cheers

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-Anti-’s picture

-Anti- commented

If you want to submit a serious request for better 'privacy and permissions management' in core,
you can do it here: http://drupal.org/project/drupal But I doubt anyone will agree with you that it
should be in core. No harm in asking though - at least someone may explain why these types of
features are purposely left out.

Drupal on its own is just a framework, and users are expected to add modules to obtain a
functional site. Most sites have close to twenty modules. As I understand it, the drupal developers
want to keep the core as small and clean as possible, which is why it is so 'bare'.

To help with your security problem, have you tried the 'node privacy by role' module?
http://drupal.org/project/node_privacy_byrole

This is the module I hope is going to allow me to have a secure school website with only chosen content
made public to parents and guests. There may be other similar modules ported from D5 to D6 in the
following months. They will appear in this category: http://drupal.org/project/Modules/category/74

Cheers.

Wolfflow’s picture

Wolfflow commented

Hi Anti, Thank you very much for your informations.

To answer your question:

Preface: I have a little number of students that have their first contact with WEB2 applications and they are really
asking simple questions about some aspect of security and Internet presentation presence with personal HomePage
and for more complex project. I help them with Drupal because I'm sure is really the best CMS out there and more
importantly it brings people together to discuss many aspects of CMS.

If you want to submit a serious request for better 'privacy and permissions management' in core,

I know that there are many issues and other places where this type of request is being discussed here and on Groups.drupal.org, but I'm not a developer and not qualified to express and represent the opinion of newcomer or younger Drupalist (in Term of Knowledge) and cannot understand and evaluate their technical considerations
about put that in Core or Not! So I will not soon be able to push IMO the idea of some fondamental few pages
That should be part of a start in building a HP or even a more complex Site with Drupal.

To help with your security problem, have you tried the 'node privacy by role' module?

I know that there are some more modules that can handle what I'm asking for and I have 3 Test-Sites (Drupal 4.7 Drupal 5.7 and 6.2 on line) where I implement this in different ways, so thanks for your proposal that's another one that showup that this is a much requested and needed Function, so just to underline my statement.

Thank You

Cheers

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Phillip Mc’s picture

Phillip Mc commented

Yep you're right...the front page will allow you to: View Frontpage for anonymous visitors that have no view-content permissions, which is, erm, precisely what you asked.

The ability to restrict access to certain parts of a Drupal site, or as you put it, a small set of pages, is already in core.

For example, you can restrict access to your contact information (using the contact.module which is part of core) by enabling/disabling the access site-wide contact form option under ADMINISTER -> USER MANAGEMENT -> ACCESS CONTROL. Similarly, you can restrict access to comments, forum posts and other pages using the same ACCESS CONTROL page. Using the USER ROLES system, that is part of core, you can control access even more, with some smart planning.

If you want more access control options, above and beyond what is already available in core, there are a multitude of ACCESS CONTROL modules available under the downloads section of drupal.org. I particularly like the SIMPLE ACCESS.module which does exactly what it says on the tin.

I happen to disagree with your point that advanced access control modules should be added to core.

In a non-production environment, like a classroom, I can see how it could be argued but, the access control that comes with core is more than satisfactory for the majority of websites in a real-world production environment.

You see, it's far better for the Drupal core to get lighter and more efficient......not heavier, with features only a minority of projects will actually need. I like to describe it as a Drupal kernel. In other words, let's say there's 100,000 Drupal websites out there...what you're suggesting means that 90,000-99,000 of those sites includes a few thousand kilobytes of code that is never used. A Drupal kernel, means that the core code is far more efficient and far lighter in code...taking up less resources and much easier to upgrade.

To use a software analogy, the next time you run MIcrosoft WORD, adobe photoshop or other and ask yourself how many of the features that are loading do you never, ever use. Scroll through the menus and make a note of menu options you ALWAYS use and options you NEVER EVER use.

Once that is done, you might wonder if it might it be much much much much smarter to have a lighter, quicker, more efficient version of Word/photoshop and allow users to download function-extensions...or they might be called modules.....

Wolfflow’s picture

Wolfflow commented

Dear PhilK,

Your arguments are definitly Ok for me, if I may allow to express my modest opinion.
Maybe I did not explain my self exactly and I will try to do it once more. Please consider that my english is not native and certainly I make grammatical mistakes that leads to misunderstandings.

What I want to achieve is to rise the attention on just one or two points that maybe not Drupalist may critisize that Drupal at the beginning is not that easy to handle with. Yes we have done many progress on the installation process till version 4.7 and many really wonderfull feature were addeded in core(kernel) and I'm really happy about that.

I just wonder that, yes endeed you have many way to control access for comments, contact-forms etc. but when you go to deal with the Frontpage you get nothing out of core(kernel). That is the point where every new Drupal user will stack for a long time, looking for the right Contrib Module to apply for achieveing a simple result.

I'm really not speaking of access control system techniques that for PHP developer and especially for Drupal developer is a prioprity to implement as simple as possible so to not overload SQL queries.

I just wonder that if in core they develop the fuction, and beg your pardon if my explanation are not of technical nature, that you see the sylly "Admin Welcome page" if do you not have build up your first node the Development Team can sure buildup a simple procedure that give the User (speak, first User, Superuser) the option to fill up to 3 base node that may have access rights ( be viewed by Anonimous user) with some basically information about the Site and it's content.

I find this really not acceptable, even that I want to underline that for me is Drupal a fantastic CMS open to unlimited structure developments even for beginners.

But You have to struggle and survive ours and ours of Headache
Thank you for your posting.

Cheers

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Phillip Mc’s picture

Phillip Mc commented

I just wonder that if in core they develop the fuction, and beg your pardon if my explanation are not of technical nature, that you see the sylly "Admin Welcome page" if do you not have build up your first node the Development Team can sure buildup a simple procedure that give the User (speak, first User, Superuser) the option to fill up to 3 base node that may have access rights ( be viewed by Anonimous user) with some basically information about the Site and it's content.

I find this really not acceptable, even that I want to underline that for me is Drupal a fantastic CMS open to unlimited structure developments even for beginners.

Core Drupal already allows you to control access to various elements for anonymous users. I'm guessing that the reason your idea hasn't been implemented is probably because it will never be used on the majority of websites and if it is a requirement, there are numerous add-on modules available to provide that functionality.

You see, it's far better for the Drupal core to get lighter and more efficient......not heavier, with features only a minority of projects will actually need. I like to describe it as a Drupal kernel. In other words, let's say there's 100,000 Drupal websites out there...what you're suggesting means that 90,000-99,000 of those sites includes a few thousand kilobytes of code that is never used. A Drupal kernel, means that the core code is far more efficient and far lighter in code...taking up less resources and much easier to upgrade.

To use a software analogy, the next time you run MIcrosoft WORD, adobe photoshop or other and ask yourself how many of the features that are loading do you never, ever use. Scroll through the menus and make a note of menu options you ALWAYS use and options you NEVER EVER use.

Once that is done, you might wonder if it might it be much much much much smarter to have a lighter, quicker, more efficient version of Word/photoshop and allow users to download function-extensions...or they might be called modules.....

Wolfflow’s picture

Wolfflow commented

Sorry to say it but you are reply postings without understanding what I care for. And is not really constructive and serious to copy your posting and pasting it in your next reply. I can read and understand, but you are really not forced to answer me if you consider my feedback stupid. If you do not agree this can be readed and understandable from your first reply to my posting. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you just have trouble with using the function for posting on Drupal.org, if so sorry.

Cheers

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-Anti-’s picture

-Anti- commented

> Sorry to say it but you are reply postings without understanding what I care for

I think we do. Just to clarify:

1) you want better viewing permissions in core rather than using a module.

However, 95% of websites *want* guests and auth users to view their content, and the current core permission system is fine for this normal usage. For added control, it is quite fair that 'private' websites install a module to obtain that privacy. There is currently only one such module for v6.x (and it still has some bugs in it due to core-script issues) but there will probably be more similar modules later.

2) you want to turn off the 'view content' permission for anon/guests, and then allow them certain nodes

From what I've read, I think the 'node privacy by role' module will do that for you. For instance, I think you can set the default permission for individual content-types to be viewed only by authenticated users; every time one of your members posts, it will be only viewable by auth users (private). Later, an admin can go to individual nodes and choose to let anon/guests view them. I actually need to test this module myself too - I'm waiting for it to be fixed.

Cheers.

Wolfflow’s picture

Wolfflow commented

Dear Anti, Thank you very much for this interesting informations. This shows me that there will be always someone on Drupal.org that can give a possibility to have a solution for very simple needs. I believe very strong that this is the philosophy behind Drupalist in general.

I never take my decisions on statistics like the one's mentioned by our poster PhilK that
- I'm sorry to say - maybe is a great manager and developer but lucks on sensitiveness and understandings for Newcomer that are no native English, but I love Drupal and try to helpout in this wonderful community.

My students and I love Drupal to and sure I'm not going to teach them to becomer Statistical Managers but only to have a personal Blog, Forum, Poll and Pictures Gallery using Drupal and not to fill statistical on Drupal worldwide.

Drupal is a great Project that Dries shared with us and surely with im mind to expand and develop Drupal for being used by anyone, despite their Knowledge-level, Implementation-field, etc etc.

Again thank you for your feedback.
Cheers

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Phillip Mc’s picture

Phillip Mc commented

You need to open your mind to open source and the concept of modular development, wildfflow.

I totally understand what you care for. I have answered you a few times and you come back with the same question, but shuffle the words about as if you think it will result in a different answer. Your question about your functionality remains the same.

Like I said earlier...if there are 100,000 drupal websites out there...between 90,000 and 99,000 sites would not use the functionality you're talking about.

Therefore, rather than increase the amount of time in development, increase the amount of resources required and increase the size of the Drupal core to include your functionality, it is probably wiser to not include your functionality in core and use one of many access control add-on modules that are availabile to add your functionality into your drupal site.

If you're teaching students Drupal, you really need to open up your mind to the concepts of open source and modular development. Drupal thrives on good suggestions and requests for functionality and as the other poster pointed out, there is a procedure for formally submitting a request for a new feature/functionality in core. The Drupal core already has access control features built in that allows the site admin to control who can see what (under ADMINISTER -> USER MANAGEMENT -> ACCESS CONTROL) and I don't think your access functionality idea is appropriate for core. That's just my opinion and by all means, submit a formal request. but....to use a software analogy....etcetera.

Wolfflow’s picture

Wolfflow commented

;-) P.S. my member name is WOLFFLOW and not ---->wildfflow.

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