Well, after much time and investment I am giving up on Drupal. A couple of Drupal books from Amazon will arrive in a couple of days to add insult to injury.
I need to build a community site and Drupal on paper seemed perfect. Problem is, when you have potentially hundreds or thousands of people posting content (I've had over 30,000 visits in a single day on several occasions) you need to be able to filter posts. But Actions/Triggers for unpublishing "offending posts" (checked against a list of keywords) under Drupal 6.4 do not work. They do work for unpublishing comments. Not for the posts themselves. (Under Reports: Recent log entries, it says "Set blog entry (nodename) to unpublished" but then it adds the blog entry as published anyway!) To me this is a fatal flaw. I cannot activate user contributions on a site if people will be able to post anything without restriction.
As an aside, there are some weird bugs that indicate Drupal 6.4 is not very stable. Example: I disabled Fckeditor temporarily to test something and the simple act of disabling Fckeditor messed up the formatting on my site. Fortunately, re-enabling Fckeditor restored things but disabling it should not in any way affect already posted material.
Off to Joomla.
Comments
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There are modules that deal with moderation of posts, you may not have looked into.
unpublished nodes are available to the admins at all times , you don't do enough to describe the problem here and how the so called flaw can be reproduced by others. I can't reproduce it any way.
Looking at your tracker you didn't really help yourself much by way of asking questions or filing issues in the 13 hours (at time of my comment) that you've been a community member.
I can't speak for the entire community, but can say I wish you the best with Joomla or whatever CMS you decide to deploy. I also hope you take the time to include yourself in the community to help you get your questions answered and issues filed to get possible bugs looked into and if necessary get them fixed.
I provided more than enough
I provided more than enough detail in the following post yesterday:
http://drupal.org/node/316953
Dude, since when does length of time as a community member have ANYTHING to do with anything? People are either helpful or they are not. I wasn't complaining that no one responded within 13 hours, I was complaining about a serious flaw in 6.4. I can see why this place has a bad rep!
Two people now have said 6.4 is fine, no problems, and yet BOTH of you recommend going outside the core for a simple issue of filtering out posts with defined keywords in them! This is supposed to work in the core. I've programmed this kind of thing in probably a dozen different languages over the years, including Fortran decades ago. It ain't difficult. Adding modules unnecessarily only complicates things as any developer worth his salt knows.
In my first post here, I took the time not only to carefully explain a bug in Drupal but I also provided a workaround for a known problem that according to earlier posts no one here had the solution to.
If there are only amateurs here, please let me know. Or direct me to where I can find some professional Drupal developers who aren't going to get defensive over the slightest thing. Otherwise, Joomla is the way to go as it is clearly better supported and has a more professional community.
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It does work in core. You've added an editor which isn't part of core and as such adds an unknown in the equation.
Either way, Best of luck. ; )
Thank you! Now that's a
Thank you! Now that's a better way of responding to people.
Regards
If you read the earlier post
If you read the earlier post you would realize that the fckeditor was disabled and that did not solve the problem.
Your post suggests there are editors that ARE part of the core. How about you tell us which editors are part of the core.
thanks
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There are no editors in core nor did I suggest such a thing. Using core WITHOUT an editor does not seem to produce the problem you are experiencing. At the very least I can't reproduce it.
In the other post I discussed turing off line the line break filter in your input format. The line break filter is what is adding the
<p>tags that seems to be interfering with the words you are trying to filter.I did read the earlier post however, you did not take the time to explain whether you resaved the problematic node or what the input format settings are and what filters are enabled.
Again, the problem exists
Again, the problem exists for *Posts* even when I disable the editor. (both entirely disabling the editor or excluding it from use in the given fields) The tests are done with several comma-delimited keywords.....and there are no line breaks. (other than those inserted for some reason by fckeditor but again the editor is disabled)
Again, Action/Trigger works for filtering user *comments* by not the *posts* themselves people might be commenting on. In other words, your average authenticated user cannot post "offending" comments in response to a blog post but your average authenticated user CAN post "offending" posts on his blog. (ditto for stories for those individuals with permission)
Now, this situation is preferable to the reverse; if blogger and author posts could be found to be "offending" but not user comments that would be a worse situation since I'll always have more readers/commentors than authors. But this does mean that I cannot activate the system-wide blog module unless and until I can solve this issue. (or decide to go with an extra-core blogging module that may not present this problem)
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I understand, as best I can, what the problem is. I just can't reproduce it on a test site with no contributed modules.
I've asked if you can reproduce it on a fresh installation with no contributed modules in either this thread or the other and as far as I know, you've not attempted to try to reproduce it in that way. I understand that you've disabled FCKeditor and can still reproduce the problem though I don't know if just disabling the module is good enough to diagnose the problem in this case because at least two other people can't seem to reproduce the issue on a site that isn't using contrib modules.
Sorry but I've not yet had a
Sorry but I've not yet had a chance to test this on a fresh installation. I'm hoping to be able to do this today....but I do have to give attention to the content side of things too!
Will certainly post more as more is learned about this issue.
What editors are people using if not fckeditor?
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IMO, 2 things to keep your eye on openwysiwyg.module and the wysiwyg api which strives to open core up to use any editor.
Nice!
Nice!
good start, bad finish. Bye.
FWIW, the issue report you linked to seemed to be more coherant than most. So that was a very good start.
You also apparently came up with a workaround, so maybe it wasn't totally fatal.Even better.
For a non-core requirement, specific to you, there was an optional feature module suggested that may have helped address your individual request. You seem to think that even trying that is a worthless idea. Drupal is a set of LEGO and all significant sites use several dozen modules to produce their customized results. If you refuse to run just ONE contrib module for philosophical reasons of your own, then you have made the right choice. Drupal is not for you.
Good luck finding the out-of-the-box solution you need.
.dan.
if you are asking a question you think should be documented, please provide a link to the handbook where you think the answer should be found.
| http://www.coders.co.nz/ |
.dan. is the New Zealand Drupal Developer working on Government Web Standards
Show me a developer quick to
Show me a developer quick to just tack on new modules to "solve" issues that should be handled in the core and I'll show you a lousy developer.
I was warned ahead of time about this forum, among other things told that people are quick to suggest their personal modules or other modules for things that should be handled in the core. That just isn't serious development.
There are many issues with just tacking on modules for the heck of it, not the least of which is that they often introduce new problems of their own. This is just common sense but is also something anyone with a degree in computer science will understand.
No, I don't have a problem with adding modules if they truly add something not possible with core modules. If you had read the earlier posts, you would see that I added the fckeditor.....because there doesn't seem to be anything like it in the core.
Finally, the world is not black and white. Your approach seems to be "Install all the modules we suggest or go elsewhere for an out-of-the-box solution". Again, that is not very serious development. I appreciate that some of you may just toy around with Drupal. But you cannot do serious development this way.
Show me a developer who
Show me a developer who thinks they know what the best feature implementation is for every user and use case and i'll show you a developer who doesn't know what they're talking about.
yet another newbie who's been using drupal like 5 minutes (relative, not absolute) and already knows what should and shouldn't be in core. truly amazing.
there isn't a wysiwyg get editor in core-- there are many many options available, none of which are ideal for many reasons-- most of which have nothing to do with drupal. Thus no clear winner and no core module... yet any way. Though it is on the roadmap (with a great deal of progress so far) to create a wysiwyg api so that whatever wysiwyg someone prefers can be easily accommodated.
um, no. the attitudes expressed in some of the replies in this thread are a direct result of the incendiary nature of your OP. If you just wanted to move on you would have without calling attention to yourself first as you did in this post with that subject. No, you posted this thread expressly to start something-- and now you feign surprise that you did.
one can't yell fire in a crowded theater and then pretend to be surprised when trampled by the resulting stampede.
===
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." - Lao Tzu
"God helps those who help themselves." - Ben Franklin
"Search is your best friend." - Worldfallz
>>yet another newbie who's
>>yet another newbie who's been using drupal like 5 minutes (relative, not absolute) and already knows what should and shouldn't be in core. truly amazing.
It's called getting an education in.....oh, for example....Computer Science.
I've designed and written my own compilers and interpreters, so am more than qualified to look at a new system and put together an informed opinion very quickly.
So yes, it IS possible, if one has the proper background, to look at a system and pass judgment on it in very little time. I'm sorry if you feel threatened by this.
But again, Actions/Triggers ARE in the core, dude. I'm simply suggesting it would be nice if core features......actually work. That may be a novel concept to you, I don't know.
>>um, no. the attitudes expressed in some of the replies in this thread are a direct result of the incendiary nature of your OP.
Nice try, dude. My OP carefully explained a problem, offered a workaround for one case and asked if anyone else had experienced similar issues.
The incendiary posts came from you and another person because apparently you felt a personal affront that anyone would be critical of Drupal! Get a life already.
Several people, none of them you, actually offered some useful suggestions. You're trolling around trying to turn this into something else. No one has a gun to your head making you participate here. So just get out of the way and stop polluting the thead with your BS.
It's called getting an
had you said usability i might have been swayed-- but computer science, no, sorry that doesn't qualify you decide what's best for everyone else's users and use cases.
maybe english is your second language or something-- i tested it and it worked, perfectly, the first time out on 6 trials in 2 systems.
are you seriously going to try and assert that "dropping drupal" and "Off to Joomla." are constructive anything? Lolol-- and surprise surprise- you didn't simply move on at all-- you wanted to call attention to yourself and you did.
Yeah you're right-- instead of just making random suggestions, possibly useful or not, i actually installed fckeditor, created the actions, assigned them to triggers, and tested the functionality 6 times (once on an existing d6 test site and once on a fresh one i created just for the purpose of this testing). From now on i'll try not to be so unhelpful.
===
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." - Lao Tzu
"God helps those who help themselves." - Ben Franklin
"Search is your best friend." - Worldfallz
Dude, unlike others you have
Dude, unlike others you have been arrogant, obnoxious and unhelpful from your first post. So it's no surprise that you come out with the classic "maybe english is your second language or something".
And no, just because it works for you does NOT mean there is no problem.
You are also wrong that computer science people are not qualified to decide what is best for everyone else in....uh....computer systems. Not only are they qualified but they DO decide what's best for everyone else ALL the time. Hopefully with much input from actual users.....which gets to the core (no pun intended) of my argument here: do not get defensive if someone criticizes your precious Drupal. There is NO place for attitudes like yours. They are so, er, 1950s.
But again the question of who decides what should be in the core wasn't the point here. The point was that Actions/Triggers *ARE* part of the core! What about "they are part of the core" do you not understand? I'm not going to criticize your English. I think you genuinely do not understand computers in ANY language, human or otherwise!
Anyway, I'm not going to let one bad apple spoil things here. I have gotten great suggestions both in the forum here and via email and with your royal permission I think I will stick with Drupal after all. However, if I see you posting your obnoxious BS to others here, I will call you out on it. You see, I do not care how many posts you have in the forums. I do not care what "seniority" you claim. This should be a place that WELCOMES people to Drupal. Period. There is no place for your insecure, defensive, obnoxious posts. Improve your attitude and manners and perhaps this can be a more welcoming place. Unlike you, I do not fear people who are critical of Drupal. I'd like to see Drupal improved.
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Not for nothing but you could take a lesson in ettiqette too AFAIC, rereading much of your attacking responses to others who have tried to help. I see this as a pot calling the kettle black. It's obvious, at least to me, in your interaction that you came to this commuinty with a jaded idea instead of an open mind and are trying to use what is happening in this thread as justification of the accusations "you've heard" about this community.
as a side note: Worldfallz doesn't happen to be a "dude" : )
as heather, another helpful user has stated in previous responses in another post, file an bug report using the issue queue against the core module you believe a bug exists. you can file an issue here: http://drupal.org/node/add/project-issue/drupal by setting the remainder of the dropdowns.
one can also install as a test site the -dev version of Drupal 6.x to insure that it hasn't already been fixed and is awaiting a release of 6.5
I don't care if the
I don't care if the individual is a dude or not. Arrogance is arrogance. The "perhaps English is not your first language" is a classic used by someone who has no argument.
The obnoxious individuals (dude or not) with high post counts will not get a pass from me. They twist what someone actually says, ignore the actual point of a post or complaint, and generally spread like a cancer in the forums. This is classic forum crap and I'm not going to put up with it. I'm more inclined to clean up the riff-raff so this is a better place.
The two individuals in question have somehow turned this into a debate about who should and should not decide what goes in the core.....when the feature/problem in question *IS* part of the core. That is classic forum BS. They take things so far from the issue at hand to cover up their own lack of understanding so that eventually most everyone forgets what the initial question was about. Unbelievable.
=-=
I view your posts in the same dim light.
That nonsense aside:
I've taken the time to direct you to a place where you can file a bug report. All you have to do is take the steps to do so. If the bug is confirmed in the issue queue someone can work on a patch. Maybe that person will be you. I'd still double check the issue queue to see if others have already reported this issue and possibly supplied a patch.
Keep in mind that support in the forums is voluntary and the levels of support vary tremendously depending on that users familiarairity with core, skillset and focus of skillset.
That certainly is your
That certainly is your right.
And yes, OF COURSE I knew full well that starting a thread entitled "Dropping Drupal" would get them out of the woodwork. It is obviously a VERY effective way of determining who here is going to get defensive over Drupal criticism and who is going to think outside the box and welcome Drupal criticism and provide good suggestions. I needed to know who were the latter, not only within the specific issue at hand but for a much larger project that will be presented later.
Personally I am very excited about the potential of Drupal and would never in a million years switch to Joomla which I ruled out quickly when I did my research.
I assure you the actual useful suggestions (including those from you) are being followed. Thanks.
And no, just because it
yes I know-- but the first step in diagnosing a bug is reproducing it. Had you not blabbered on with your incendiary nonsense about how bad the community is and "dropping drupal" and "off to joomla" during the time i was doing exactly that, I would have pursued troubleshooting with you what it is about your configuration that is causing it not to function properly.
You have a tantrum because 13 whole hours passed after your original and constructive request for assistance with no response and then post this ridiculous 'farewell' thread and then wonder why people respond in kind? laughable. You got exactly what you were trolling for.
Actually-- no they're not and no they don't, at least on the successful projects. That was the entire impetus of the human factors / usability design / information architecture professions. If computer science people could do this so successfully, there would have never been a need for an entire profession dedicated to repairing the damage done by developers. Indeed, the very redesign of d.o. is being handled by a specialist usability design firm and not computer science people.
it's not my precious anything. And i don't get defensive with informed intelligent discourse-- the majority of which takes place with users that have formed opinions after more than a single post and don't flame troll with subjects like "dropping drupal", lol.
What I do get is irritated when every single week newbies with all of 5 minutes of relative drupal experience parachute into the forums blustering on about how much experience they have and how they know what's best for everyone else. The magnitude of that megalomania is beyond belief.
Exactly-- but you made it the point when you decided you know what should and shouldn't be in core and how it should function.
Really? But I thought you were "dropping drupal" and "off to joomla"? what a surprise.
Don't expect to parachute in, start trolling for flames, and not be challenged. I didn't start this thread-- you did-- and your subject gives away your intent with no possibility of doubt. I wasn't about to let any more of this type of FUD go unquestioned.
===
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." - Lao Tzu
"God helps those who help themselves." - Ben Franklin
"Search is your best friend." - Worldfallz
Aren't you done with your
Aren't you done with your temper tantrum yet?
Just because YOU claim someone else had a temper because 13 hours passed without helpful suggestions does NOT mean that temper ever actually happened. And you cannot point to ANY post by me that complained that I had no responses, much less in any timeframe.
So please....get some manners and knock off your arrogant BS. This forum is about Drupal, not about you.
Nope, you're wrong......human factors etc. professions were initially launched by computer science people in a convergence of CS, psychology and other domains. Just because you're a newbie doesn't mean history began with you.
As I explained in another post, the "dropping Drupal" heading was carefully chosen to expose individuals such as yourself. I now know who is and who isn't knowledgable about Drupal here and who does and does not have a high Emotional IQ. This was necessary for a couple of reasons. It's not my fault you performed so poorly. You are responsible for your own conduct.
.
"As I explained in another post, the "dropping Drupal" heading was carefully chosen to expose individuals such as yourself."
I'd say your experiment backfired, then, as you've managed to anger some of the most consitantly helpful people on this forum and even those of us who have stayed out of the fray have taken note of your behavior. This community is built around karma. That isn't something to be taken lightly.
Michelle
--------------------------------------
See my Drupal articles and tutorials or come check out life in the Coulee Region.
Actually I got 15 emails
Actually I got 15 emails from helpful people, with about half also saying they too had run-ins with these and other individuals.
Go ahead and condone their gratuitous insults and other behavior, I don't care. There is nothing original about such a pack mentality and it is the FIRST thing that will destroy any discussion forum. Given the number of people who emailed me, I figure the actual number is quite large who do not approve of the alpha male (and woman on testosterone) mentality displayed by some long-time regulars here. But I will do my part to keep them in line so that this is a friendlier place.
.
Well, good. Then you have 15 people to help you if you run into trouble and need a question answered in the forums since you've insulted all the ones that devote countless hours for free helping people out.
Don't worry about keeping anyone in line. We have moderators that can take care of problems in a civil manner. Just take care you don't become one of those problems.
Michelle
--------------------------------------
See my Drupal articles and tutorials or come check out life in the Coulee Region.
If "all the ones that devote
If "all the ones that devote countless hours for free helping people out" didn't post insulting comments, I wouldn't respond in kind.
How about they try simply being helpful and lose the attitudes?
I thought you were done?
http://drupal.org/node/317050#comment-1046032
Michelle
--------------------------------------
See my Drupal articles and tutorials or come check out life in the Coulee Region.
First of all, that subject
First of all, that subject was dealt with in the subsequent thread titled "NOT Dropping Drupal" here:
http://drupal.org/node/317368
Further, one or two of your "helpful contributors" here REPEATEDLY lied when they said that I had been complaining about not getting a response within 13 hours of my original post. That was not true and when I called them on it, they had nothing to say. ANY thread is going to degrade quickly when supposedly helpful people start lying. They instantly polluted the thread. That was on top of the standard "English may not be your first language...." comment. Very helpful these individuals! My opinion is that they are hacks.
Getting defensive when someone criticizes Drupal and posting insults is NOT the way to promote good discussion in a discussion forum. These individuals should NOT be on the front lines here whether they are doing this for free or not. I don't care what you say their helpful history is. They were exposed in this thread and others told me they had similar problems here.
And given all that, why are YOU trying to push this issue? This should have ended with my "NOT Dropping Drupal" post. I don't see that you have contributed ANYTHING meaningful to the discussion. Several others and I have discussions both on the board and privately. Your own signal-to-noise ratio in this thread is 0.
13 hours was NOT a lie
The math is very simple and incontrovertible (the date stamps are in your tracker):
First post requesting assistance with actions: October 4, 2008 - 02:22
Second post "dropping drupal": October 4, 2008 - 15:11
Anyone can do the math and arrive at their own conclusions.
As for me I'm done-- you want the last word it's all yours. With each post you only confirm all the assertions in my previous posts. I'll let the evidence stand for itself.
cat ventoo > /dev/null
===
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." - Lao Tzu
"God helps those who help themselves." - Ben Franklin
"Search is your best friend." - Worldfallz
oh a test-- yeah that's it!
oh a test-- yeah that's it! lol-- you really are taken with yourself if you think you can fool anyone with that one. But i guess that's the best you could come up with to explain why you're still not "off to joomla". Lucky us-- this is one case where it's too bad joomla didn't win.
Newbie? Now THAT is funny. I got my degree in human factors 1984-- and um no, the profession was not launched by computer science anything. They were initially cognitive psychologists who specialized in HCI exactly because the initial computer user interfaces, designed and programmed by professional engineers, were UNUSABLE by normal human beings, lol. But keep the fud rolling in-- each time you post it gets more amusing.
My tracker and the threads I've participated in speak for themselves-- as does yours so keep on talking...
===
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." - Lao Tzu
"God helps those who help themselves." - Ben Franklin
"Search is your best friend." - Worldfallz
Given that you do not know
Given that you do not know the origins of the field of human factors, I'd say your degree doesn't have much value.
LOL! You don't even know when the field of cognitive psychology was founded, do you? Sorry to inform you of this but university-based human factors work by computer scientists pre-dates cognitive psychology *as a field of study*! Try again.
You make a common mistake, seeing the world in black and white. In your world, all computer scientists run around wearing white lab coats and are oblivious to the world of humans around them. You must have been brainwashed by your human factors professors seeking to make themselves sound more important than they really are. The truth is that ALL the initial human factors research was led by top computer scientists, notably at American universities. It was only later when multi-disciplinary approaches at universities were undertaken that human factors emerged. Even then, the first projects were led by computer scientists who had the funding. Later still when big American companies, notably in the computer and information sectors, began funding research. You got your degree in 1984? Very late in the game, Macintosh was launched that year! Guess you didn't take any history classes!
In the future, if you are going to post gratuitous insults and puff up your chest, you might want to be sure you can back it up first.
So why fight it? Try something else.
Not exactly. My suggestion is that if you want to use Drupal effectively, you will have to at some point install modules from outside core.
You seem to have already decided that's 'unprofessional' and not an option. Therefore I can see only a brick wall in your future if you continue to try and build anything worthwhile with Drupal. So the sooner you choose something else that fits your coding style, the better for you.
Interestingly, for all your dick-swinging about having used a computer before, the very reason that your personal wishlist feature-de-jour is not in core is probably part of the general philosophy to not include things willy-nilly.
Every time a newbie bleats "I want X so X should be in core!" their credibility gets cut in half because they just don't get it. You made that mistake (it's not unforgivable), but instead of learning from it you attempted to belittle and insult the people that offered you help. You may have some years experience with computers, but you've got some learning to do about working with Open Source. Or human beings for that matter.
.dan.
if you are asking a question you think should be documented, please provide a link to the handbook where you think the answer should be found.
| http://www.coders.co.nz/ |
.dan. is the New Zealand Drupal Developer working on Government Web Standards
You are reverting to the
You are reverting to the misguided black and white argument, "no modules or lots of modules whether or not they are needed".
*That* is what is not a professional attitude.
And you continue to not understand that not only do I not have anything against extra-core modules, I have already installed fckeditor and will gladly install others on an as-needed basis. I will also be creating my own modules. But I will NOT take ANY suggestions from someone (you) who does not understand computers generally and Drupal specifically.
What do you not understand about "Actions/Triggers ARE part of the core"? They are part of the core. How can you not understand this? Do you even use Drupal?
None of your crap in any way applies to anything I've said....so I assume it is your standard BS that you post to anyone who dares criticize Drupal.
Actions/Triggers ARE PART OF THE CORE. If you were a Drupal user, you would know this! I'm sorry but I do not think you should be giving any suggestions to any potential Drupal users.
Un-freakin-believable!
and you made this conclusion
and you made this conclusion after all of 13 hours as a member of d.o with only one forum post, all of 12 hours old, regarding your actions/trigger issue, lolol? did you do any research on the issue at all? check the module's issue queue? post a support request?
i have several test sites up on drupal 6.4-- so far it's completely stable and by far the best drupal yet. I'm not using the d6 version of fckeditor on them, but never-the-less, module problems are not necessarily drupal problems. again, did you check the issue queue? post a support request?
open source software is very different than proprietary commercial software-- you generally get out of it what you're willing to put into it and you've put in about 13 hours, lol.
joomla, also open source, is not going to be any different. I spent many many hours diagnosing and repairing various esoteric issues i had with it and several of it's modules-- it's what caused me to look for another solution and led me to find drupal.
joomla is a fine product for what it does, but the community is no where near as helpful and responsive as the drupal community which I found to be one of the best in all of open source.
good luck to you... although it would seem from your impatience that you would probably be better off with a commercial product where you can pay for the type response time you're expecting.
===
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." - Lao Tzu
"God helps those who help themselves." - Ben Franklin
"Search is your best friend." - Worldfallz
It's OK. Clearly no
It's OK. Clearly no loss.
Good luck to them.
I don't actually understand the problem statement, but it's probably valid as far as it goes. If Joomla offers that feature out-of-the-box there may be something to be learned from it, or at least a feature request.
or if someone is running a viable 30 000-user-per-day site, maybe even a bounty :-)
.dan.
if you are asking a question you think should be documented, please provide a link to the handbook where you think the answer should be found.
| http://www.coders.co.nz/ |
.dan. is the New Zealand Drupal Developer working on Government Web Standards
Your response is the perfect
Your response is the perfect example of why this place has a bad reputation.
In my first post, I point out a problem with Drupal, I also provide a workaround to a related problem that apparently no one here had solved in months of time, and you respond by suggesting that number of posts one has posted here is some sign of.....what exactly?
Your conclusion that the 13 hours since my initial post represents how much time I've put into this is seriously flawed. Think much? Read carefully: I spent all day yesterday trying to solve this Drupal core problem before posting my first post here. Thank you for demonstrating to me firsthand why I was warned about this place!
that number of posts one
At the beginning it's a sign of whether or not you've tried to get help before and if you've posted correctly and in the right places to receive the assistance you're looking for. Nothing more, nothing less. As you progress in the community it also becomes an indicator of whether or not you contribute back.
Open source is generally a meritocracy-- whether or not you agree with that philosophy, that's how it ends up working. I have a limited time to assist in the forums-- if i'm going to spend my time helping someone I'm more likely to help someone who 1) has tried to help themselves first and 2) has tried to help others at some point (newbies are obviously an exception to #2). If someone has been a member for something like a year or more and all of their posts are created by them for their own needs then I move on to someone else.
one whole day-- wow! being a developer who's "programmed this kind of thing in probably a dozen different languages over the years" I would have expected that you would be familiar with the fact that some bugs can take many times that amount of time to diagnose and or solve. Also, if it truly is a core bug (and there's no proof that it is, btw, as i tested it and it worked fine on my sites) you've approached it incorrectly. The proper place to report and/or get assistance with a core bug is the drupal issues queue. Which again, through your tracker, one can see that you didn't bother with.
Nothing you've said so far obviates the fact that from your request for assistance to your decision to abandon drupal took 13 hours-- as i said, if that's the type of response time you're expecting you are definitely in the wrong place and probably should investigate a commercial product.
However, while you were busy repeating how bad a community this is I was testing this functionality with blog, page, & story content types and it worked fine for a normal authenticated user with the proper permissions. As user 1, it didn't unpublish and I would guess that is by design (as user 1 should be able to publish anything). I didn't investigate further, since this community is so unhelpful and has such a bad rep, but it may be tied to a permission like "administer nodes" or something.
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"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." - Lao Tzu
"God helps those who help themselves." - Ben Franklin
"Search is your best friend." - Worldfallz
Dude, you may be used to
Dude, you may be used to needing days to solve simple problems but you cannot do much development if you accept that something like this taking a full day is at ALL reasonable. It ain't.
The workaround I offered for COMMENTS took me about 20 minutes to figure out. My understanding is that there was a discussion on that here awhile ago that went unsolved. So hopefully someone will benefit from the workaround.
The workaround however does not work for POSTS (nodes). Why there would be a difference between whether the Action/Trigger works for Comments vs. Posts, I do not know.
Contrary to what you say, comments (and ultimately blog/story/page posts in theory) do and should unpublish even for User 1. In my tests, comments unpublish for User 1 as well as for users with virtually no permissions. I think you may be confusing unpublishing with delete. User 1 (as well as other users with the proper permissions) can still view the unpublished comments. For others, they appear to be deleted even though they are not.
Again, that is for comments. For posts, it's another situation altogether: the posts do not unpublish as they should regardless of who the user is.
As for the proper place to discuss such issues, I find it curious why you suggest a discussion forum is not a good place to.....discuss. I will look into the Drupal issues queue. Next time perhaps you will suggest that first, rather than suggest one install a host of modules that may or may not work and/or introduce problems of their own!
I didn't say it took me a
I didn't say it took me a day to solve this and i can't speak to your skillset or why it would take you a day to do this.
In about 5 minutes i implemented the unpublishing of POSTS based on keyword in 2 separate d6 installs for blog, story, and page content types-- it worked properly, no workarounds required.
Because they are fundamentally different drupal objects-- nodes are not comments and vice versa.
You're absolutely right-- the reason the post didn't unpublish was because the case didn't match the specified keyword, not because it was user 1. my bad.
I'm not sure how else to say this-- i just tried this in 2 d6.4 systems with 3 different content types each time and the posts unpublish exactly as they should and authenticated users cannot see the unpublished content. oh, and i forgot to mention, that i did install fckeditor and did the tests with it enabled and active.
User 1 can always see all content-- this is by design and not a malfunction of some sort.
I never said it wasn't a good place to discuss-- it is a place to discuss. It is not the best place to announce bugs and expect any specific response. Bugs are taken seriously on d.o and bug reports, especially core ones, are best handled by the issues queue where core developers will actually see them.
Exactly where did i suggest you install any module?
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"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." - Lao Tzu
"God helps those who help themselves." - Ben Franklin
"Search is your best friend." - Worldfallz
Yes, nodes are not comments
Yes, nodes are not comments and vice versa. Duh. The point is that it is possible in theory to re-use the same filter code for multiple objects such as Drupal nodes and comments. Sorry but this is basic CS.
Fckeditor is NOT the issue, as I've already said.
No one claimed that User 1 seeing all content was a malfunction. In fact I said exactly the opposite in response to your admitted incorrect comment on this earlier.
ventoo - I've been reading
ventoo - I've been reading this while I wait on a reply to my current drupal problem (frustrating.. I could code drupal from the ground up easily, but see trying to use it!)
"Dude, you may be used to needing days to solve simple problems but you cannot do much development if you accept that something like this taking a full day is at ALL reasonable. It ain't."
I think you just hit the nail on the head; this is drupal's MAJOR problem; however good it may be (and I've been impressed with /some/ of the modules); I still find it extremely frustrating that I can make the same website from scratch in PHP 5 quicker than I can with drupal.
Drupal is like windows, simple for the common things everybody does; after that you do it the drupal way, or no way.
on your "problem"; drop drupal; forget the other cms's and roll your own app for the job; you'll be quicker and it'll be better!
Thanks for the input. I'd
Thanks for the input.
I'd happily roll my own app if only I had the time to do nothing but development. As it is I have to juggle content management with plans to write some of my own modules, site-related travel, photography, rights negotiation, contributor management and marketing and advertising.
I have been there
Hi Ventoo,
Just a few words from me if you would like to get an advice.
I understand your frustration in using Drupal as I have been there. If you have time to read, I wrote my frustration on http://drupal.org/node/285087. Even though my websites (actually only 2 and the other one is still under construction) are not as big as yours in term of number of hits, but I think the issues in developing them are the same.
From my experience in using Drupal, I mostly get the answers of my problems by searching them either in http://drupal.org/handbooks or http://api.drupal.org. I must say that Drupal's documentation is quit good. I usually do not get the answers in the forum or issue tracker, even I tried quite hard to fix them first. So the phrase saying that I will get help if I tried to fix the problem myself, does not apply to me. That is possibly because almost all of the experience Drupal's users are professional web developers. So especially for customisation, either we have to be really really patient to get the right answer, or we have to pay them to do it if we are really in a hurry. And I found some of them arrogant, so again we have to be really patient.
I think Joomla is not a good choice. You will get the same issues as well there, including the issue to get help as above. And from what I experienced, Joomla is the slowest CMS I have ever tried. I am not sure if it is appropriate to say in Drupal community forum, but if you rely on the support from the experience users of a CMS, I suggest to have a look on MODx or CMS Made Simple. I don't use them due to the fundamental designs of the CMS that I found really hard to change, which do not happen in Drupal as it is quite flexible. That is why I stay with Drupal.
Cheers,
Anto
Thank you, Anto! I will
Thank you, Anto! I will follow your advice.
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I am inclined to lock this thread but hope cooler heads prevail.
I've asked the OP to leave this thread die and am asking other community members to do so as well.
My intention was that my
My intention was that my subsequent "NOT Dropping Drupal" thread would be the end of it!
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Just seems like a battle to get the last word in @ this point on all parties.
Let's see if any one can choose to put their best foot forward in this case. ; )
I'm done.
I decided to drop it when I saw your post. If he continues to troll at me, though, I make no guarantees my willpower will hold out. ;)
Michelle
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See my Drupal articles and tutorials or come check out life in the Coulee Region.
Energy flows where attention
Energy flows where attention goes.
Good luck you all with chooses, I stick with drupal. I love it, working for 2 years with it now and as I am not that good a programmer, drupal brings me the last bid in making my dreams true! See www.trekking-world.com a e-development aid site build with great mity Drupal. My Nepalese friends are loving every bid of it!
greetings,
Martijn
Michelle, *100%* of your
Michelle, *100%* of your posts in this thread have been troll posts. Again, a SNR of 0. Not a good performance.
If you want to contribute to meaningful discussion, by all means do. The other stuff we can do without.