Standardize the language selector for the Philippine language.

Just another link:

Documentation for ISO 639 identifier: fil

Actually, realizing that this is not a feature request but a bug report because Drupal should be first supporting the official language which is Filipino (fil) and not Tagalog (tl).

if i'm reading it correctly, the local and international version should both be written as Filipino.

Sorry. Here they are...

Edited the text above. Yes. you are right. Thought i read somewhere that it is Pilipino. Sorry

See comment #4

The last submitted patch failed testing.

Reading several publicly available resources, I don't believe there is a case of removing Tagalog when adding Filipino. The relationshop between the two remains unclear at this time, and both have legal ISO639 codes.

hmm...patch failed... what's wrong with it? it's just a straight-forward patch. well.. can't do anything about it in this computer i'm using right now. I'll look into it later but quite honestly, i don't know what's wrong with it.

Anyway, I believe that there is a case why we should remove Tagalog from the drop-down list when adding Filipino. Tagalog was the official language in the Philippines until 1987. As there are more than 100 dialects in the Philippines (linguistically speaking, they are actually different languages and not dialects), speakers of other Philippine languages refuse to use Tagalog as they believe that it's the language of Manila and not their island. That is why we decided to come up with Filipino in 1987 which is actually just a standardized version of Tagalog. As mentioned in #9, the relationship of the two are unclear. It is unclear because it's 100% the same, but it's proper and politically correct to use Filipino than Tagalog. If Tagalog is retained in Drupal, we might as well add other big languages in the Philippines such as Cebuano (ceb) which is spoken by 20 million people. Most Philippine languages also have their respective ISO639 codes.

With regards to a translation project in Drupal, having a Tagalog translation project and a Filipino translation project is just plain stupid in the eyes of Filipinos (the people), as they will be exactly the same translations. It will just be renaming *.tl.po to *.fil.po.

This is not the same case as Norwegian Bokmål (nb) and Norwegian Nynorsk (nn), as they are different. If we want to support the 2 official languages of the Philiipines, then it should be FIL and EN-PH.

So instead of contributing to the confusion, let us support Filipino instead of Tagalog.

So what really is the difference between Filipino and Tagalog? There should be, right?, as they have different names. Tagalog is spoken in main land Luzon where Manila is part of. To come up with a language which is encompassing the whole Philippines, and to cater the Spanish and American loan words we have been using because of colonization, linguists decided to use the word Filipino (Pilipino in the 70's), which is basically Tagalog which also have neologisms of loan words. Think of Filipino as Tagalog Plus. But in the eyes of the common filipino, they are the same and interchangeable.

trying again with the patches

The last submitted patch failed testing.

hmmm...why? Can someone help and tell me what's wrong with the patches. trying again....

The last submitted patch failed testing.

I don't get why it's failing. Can someone please help. Thanks.

The last submitted patch failed testing.

Your patch is not created from the root Drupal directory, so the test bot cannot apply it. See http://drupal.org/patch/create for more information.

Standardizing the language selector for the Philippine language need another run through. It is right to consider that Filipino is the "safe" language to use (in contrast with Tagalog which is still a prevalent living language in many regions of the Philippines). Unfortunately, implementation by other language-related projects to "fil" (which is defined by ISO 639-1 and still has no ISO 639-2 & 639-3 entries) would also have a good debate on this topic.

However, in my strong opinion is that we should not deprecate Tagalog (tl) simply because we have a good reason to initialize Filipino (fil). A lot of other open source projects have massive code base for tl than fil at the moment. Transition may come gradually on a need basis (or until the Philippine government tackles the topic --which is so not happening in 20 years or so due to the slow IT growth & development in the country). To further rationalize, both Philippine dialects are referred to as "living languages" which means that they will grow in their own means. It is safe to say that they deserve distinct l10n workspaces. Redundancy (which is commonly feared in i.t. projects) is accepted in some cases for fil / tl words. It is also true that both have same words with different meanings and/or usage (I'm from a Tagalog-speaking region so I'm 100% confident about this).

With that I humbly object to the task of "removing Tagalog" on Drupal.org. Separate project work-spaces for Tagalog (tl) and Filipino (fil) is highly encouraged.

It is right to consider that Filipino is the "safe" language to use

Using "fil" is not the safe language to use. It's the correct language to use and it's more politically correct to use.

A lot of other open source projects have massive code base for tl than fil at the moment.

Just because a lot of projects have mistakenly used tl instead of fil, it doesn't mean that we should join the band and not use the correct one.

...Tagalog which is still a prevalent living language in many regions of the Philippines

I strongly disagree. People think that they speak Tagalog but linguistically speaking, it is Filipino. As long as we use neologisms while speaking or writing Tagalog then it's not Tagalog anymore... it's Filipino. That's how Filipino came about - to cater neologisms and foreign letters like C and F. I don't think a common filipino knows what's the tagalog word for "refirigerator", for example, we say "prigider" which is a neologism of the english word. We say "kusina" (es: cucina) when referring to the kitchen. We say "kendi" for candy, and "Sapatos" (es:zapatos) for shoes. These neologisms are Filipino and not Tagalog. I don't think there's a single person in the Tagalog region who doesn't use these words on their daily lives.

Unfortunately, implementation by other language-related projects to "fil" (which is defined by ISO 639-1 and still has no ISO 639-2 & 639-3 entries) would also have a good debate on this topic.

Here are the code sets of Filipino in ISO 639-2 & 639-3 entries: Documentation for ISO 639 identifier: fil

Transition may come gradually on a need basis (or until the Philippine government tackles the topic --which is so not happening in 20 years or so due to the slow IT growth & development in the country).

If we don't correct it now? When? So are we waiting for our government to take the initiative? This is the reason why we are stuck where we are! The filipino people think that they cannot make a difference. That's a mind-set the colonizers gave us and we should drop it. If you can do something about it, start the initiative and create change! So let's be an example to other open-source projects in starting and promoting the use of the correct one.

Separate project work-spaces for Tagalog (tl) and Filipino (fil) is highly encouraged.

In relation to Drupal, do we do this even though we know that translations will be the same? It's like getting the module Views and using the same code, release a Visual module. This is not Drupal.

I made the initiatiave to organize the tagalog translation project, and while I'm in the process, it is giving me a very uncomfortable feeling . I feel that we are just fooling ourselves, because it's actually Filipino and not Tagalog. What's the tagalog word for account? akawnt - This is Filipino!. Even tl.wikipedia.org uses it, but it's not tagalog its Filipino.... and it's wrong. So why will we follow other projects when we know that it's wrong?

@marc.robinsone
You say you are from the Tagalog region, I am originally from there too. 100%. Even my ancestors came from the Tagalog region. Mom's side hailed from Mindoro and dad's side are from Cavite.. and I grew up in Manila. So honestly I am quite surprised. Can you really say that you speak tagalog to your friends or do you speak Filipino? Just http://groups.drupal.org/Philippines is a clear example. Is there a single comment there which you can honestly say that's tagalog? None. Comments are either Filipino or English.

Status is changed to "Postponed". How long? "20 years or so due to the slow IT growth and development in the Philippines"? I'm sorry. This is so un-Drupal. If we know that it's more proper and correct, enact the change!

@JohnNoc:
Since we both gave good arguments about this and there's really nothing wrong about it, let's find a way to endorse the issue to someone who has better code access.

Let's both try to contact goba or webchick in order to formally patch this up for Drupal 7 (and hopefully for Drupal 6 as well).

"Filipino" replaces "Tagalog" on the Drupal project.

Regarding #19
Yeah. The last patch on #17 was created from the root directory of Drupal. I read also the documentation before that. It seems that there's a problem with TortoiseCVS. It's ignoring the top directory, that's why in the last patch I added includes/ before locale.inc manually. Just to be sure, I tried making a patch from 3 different places (inside includes, Drupal root and outside) but the resulting patches are exactly the same.

If anyone would be so kind to explain how I can edit the patch manually so it will pass the test bot, I will be very thankful. Of course, anyone could just create a patch for this, but I want to learn how to do it myself, so I won't have a problem in creating other patches for Drupal in the future. Since the problem is merely on patch-creation and not on the change in code itself.

Thanks :-)

Hmm.. I'm not a Drupal user but since the topic is about updating the language selection "Filipino vs. Tagalog", and since there (really) is an effort in mass updating many FLOSS apps (2 or 3 Linux distros will soon switch to "fil"), I'd like to give my share and from what I have gathered so far (from digging and talking to professors).

1) The line is drawn by way of identifying if "borrowed" letters were used. If there are, it is part of the "Ang Bagong Alpabetong Filipino", which is the "Filipino Alphabet" - 28 letters in all. Tagalog language doesn't have these borrowed letters, this is what we know as ABAKADA.
2) Filipino is not a rename of "Pilipino". However, "Pilipino" was a rename of "Tagalog", an attempt to make "Tagalog" the National Language by detaching it to the Tagalog region. It was still opposed because it's clearly just Tagalog under a new name.
3) Filipino, as per the constitution (I can't remember right now which one), was created to solve the debate and to fulfill the formation of having a (true) National Language. It was simply stated that Filipino is the National Language, NO statements were written that says it was a 'renamed' Pilipino language, or that it is mainly Tagalog.

Sad to say, (I think because of budget), the Commission on the Filipino Language weren't able to do much to develop the new, neutral, unbias "Filipino" language. Thus it ended up being mainly Pilipino/Tagalog. Development is going on, but it is slow. Universities were given some power for its development especially in the areas of translating scientific terminologies into Filipino.

One must also remember that, the "Filipino" language is not restricted to Tagalog only, as compared to "Pilipino" which is strictly "Tagalog" (hence, renamed). Filipino is a neutral language, in other words, we can pick words from any Philippine Languages and use it for "Filipino". "Filipino" translators should consider that (since there are no guidelines from the powers that be - CFL/KWF).

My personal guideline, since Filipino is mainly Pilipino/Tagalog and there's nothing we can do about it anymore then:
1) If there are direct translations in more than one Philippine Languages, pick the most fitting word that best describes the word or terminology being translated into Filipino;
2) If there is no direct translation in any Philippine Languages, then time to transliterate into "Filipino". Example: komputer/kompyuter, extensyon (ekstensyon/ekstensiyon = Tagalized IMO, not Filipinized; remember we have a letter 'X' in Filipino).
3) If a word being translated is better left as-is, then leave it. Examples: username (if there's a Cebuano or Bikolano or Moro translation of 'username' then follow #1 above), podcast, website, Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game, etc. [you get the idea]

Tagalog is ABAKADA. And that's another reason besides the political reason stated above, why "Filipino" was born/created from scratch (supposedly), we need and it is better to use the borrowed letters.

Disclaimer: My research is in no way authoritative on this matter. I'm simply sharing what I have gathered and learned so far.

Here's a patch for current D7 HEAD. The languages have been moved into iso.inc.

@JohnNoc, you were on the right track, but in your patch, the "includes/" needed to be added on the lines:

like in this patch...

Fascinating discussion...

The last submitted patch failed testing.

HEAD is broken.

Is it now safe to say that this issue is RTBC?

Reasons:

• There seems to be no more objections on the proposed change.
• FIL translation is now added to l.d.o #574730: Add Filipino translation to l.d.o.
• FIL is now on d.o. #447084: Please add the official language of the Philippines in the profile language selector.
• Patch passed testing. (http://testing.drupal.org/pifr/file/1/385296_filipino.patch)

@Laibcoms
Even though you're not a Drupal user as you said, thanks for the great write-up..you nailed the point. I just would like to say that you're more than welcome to help us and contribute in translating Drupal to Filipino at http://localize.drupal.org/translate/languages/fil. The translation team can be found at http://localize.drupal.org/languages/fil. And of course, it's never too late to start using the greatest Content Management Framework there is. :-)