Problems joining the Japanese translation group on l.d.o

Setting up group membership policies is entirely up to the maintainers of the team. The teams start off as open to join without approval, but then team members decide how they proceed. They can set it to use a tighter model to for example, get new members agree to some standards or know some intricate details before contributing.

The maintainers do not receive notifications of the requests, so they might not have noticed. You can try to use the personal contact form of the team lead to call attention to your requests. This issue queue is again not frequented by team leads (unless they have specific problems :).

Please close this issue once this is worked out.

I tried to join twice after not receiving any response from the first attempt. Unfortunately unlike every other group on localize.drupal.org, they've decided to keep a very restricted approach and don't want to add anyone to the group. Hopefully they'll see it is a lot more beneficial to open their group up.

They can set it to use a tighter model to for example, get new members agree to some standards or know some intricate details before contributing.

I see your point. I hope such a document/guideline will eventually be available for reference.

Well, it is entirely up to the Japanese team, every team can set their own rules and guidelines of joining, translations, suggestions, etc.

Please close this issue when successfully joining the team.

Fixed as much as we could.

I don't think it should be easy to block someone completely from contributing. In the CVS based system anyone can post a patch, and it's up to the maintainers to decide if it's good enough to be committed. I think it should be similar on l.d.o: If people want to contribute, they should be allowed to post suggestions. So, I suggest that only one subscription option for groups is available: "Open - membership requests are accepted immediately"

This isn't available in unmodified OG now, but I found #450842: Can the "Membership requests" option be set to open by default?.

In extreme cases of sabotage, like someone submitting lots of rubbish suggestions, blocking should be an option, but someone doing that could/should be banned from d.o altogether.

this is not the first time I hear about this issue
recently another d.o user opened similar issue (same webmasters' queue) which was blocked probably for the manner (even though I found no rude manner in it, just a kind of accusation which might be true)

I vote +1 to this issue

some kind of policy should be rethought

use case:
- I speak the language XY of a forgotten country
- I find my way to become team leader of the XY translation
- I don't want any other member messing around
- I don't like others suggestions
- I have the one and only truth
- where did GNU go?

I believe this attitude might happen even into Drupal's community (I have seen it before)
I don't say nothing about Japanese translation, I don't know nothing about that particular issue

I recall the previous (blocked) issue quoting a discourage phrase in Japanese, stating that Drupal's community won't know what it says if an English translation wasn't present

I think a policy about that can fix this problem:
- team leader should be enforced to publish the guideline/requirements for joining the group in English
- if team leader doesn't show collaborative enough then the group should be "open"
- or other team member can request become team leader
- a "join request" should be attended withing X weeks
- a positive or negative reply should be delivered to the applicant
- the applicant can appeal to d.o webmasters

The above is just an example, I'm not saying it should be that way.
But some mechanism should exists to avoid this kind of unpleasant incidents

similar to what projects have:
- "Is this module maintained?"
- "Requesting to become co-maintainer..." for 14 days
- etc

When I first came to Drupal I wanted to contrib to the Spanish translation,
(I won't complain about the Spanish translation's team leader)
but I couldn't make any contribution that year

being very frustrated I tried to reach the team leader
finally, I opened an issue on July 19, 2008 #284844: Can't figure out how to contribute the Spanish Translation 6.x

I e-mailed one of the administrators and there was no answer...
Now seeing the project's issues I see them all active since one year ago!!
[...]
I would like to contribute (this year preferably).

I got the FIRST reply on May 10, 2009
almost a year delay

Looks like this was all figured out in #284844: Can't figure out how to contribute the Spanish Translation 6.x already, so no reason to follow up from here, right? (I'm wondering why did you post this comment here then?).

@#12 yes, it was figured out; I (currently) have no complains about it

why bring it here?
there are some users complaining about a kind of translation "monopolization", requesting an alternative to sort a way in, and I'm supporting their arguments.

lets make it clearer, there are several reasons for a "translation team leader" or "maintainer" to disregard a project for a (long) while
the issue I mentioned is a clear example of a "lack of interest" rather than a "bad will"
the attention was focused on 5.x translation meanwhile 6.x translation was pretty much unusable and cooperative requests being ignored
- a translation bug leaving more than a year
- a join request unanswered almost a year
those are poor community qualities

if there are users complaining about "something wrong" going on with Japanese translation
please, believe it might be actually happening

PS: now I'll withdraw from this thread before being mistaken with kind of troll

@arhak: I think localize.drupal.org helps solving these problems by not requiring CVS accounts, so the approval process there is skipped. Also, there is no reason to ask to be added to the core translation team, since you can just join groups, which are accepted by default. The reason we set up groups to accept every joining user by default is so that only those group leaders who consciously choose to limit their group will. Those cases can go wrong, if the maintainer grows careless. Even in that case, letting people work out their disputes is usually better then kicking previously active people out right away. From here I can either let them figure it out or kick the maintainer, I do not have much of a selection of tools.

@#14 I'm aware of all you said, and localize.drupal.org has been a huge step forward, precisely

From here I can either let them figure it out or kick the maintainer, I do not have much of a selection of tools.

I vote against "kicking" any current maintainer (as most of Drupal community probably will), as you said, in many cases they were "previously active people"; as I mentioned they might be even "currently active" but disregarding project's issues, collaborative requests, bugs, etc

Then my suggestion is: to establish a contact and encourage that maintainer to respond those requests
to ensure that he/she is aware of what's going on

and why not, to ask him/her to leave a visible comment about it (with English translation included)

are there any numbers available of how many people already tried to get into this translation group? If too many were banned the project is suffering from a lack of contributors. 18000 strings to translate is quite a number. If they are only 2 translators they publish their own translation without having them checked and reviewed by someone else. hmm. Shouldn't be done that way.

it might help a lot if those 6 "directly confirmed people" stop by and drop a "+1" on this thread

Myself included. +1

Took three attempts to join the group to get a response from the group maintainer about why it was rejected.

+1 for me too, I was told no b/c I am not Japanese. http://groups.drupal.org/node/39974

+1 for me too, I was told no b/c I am not Japanese.

Did he also ask you if your parents, your wife, or your grandparents were Japanese?
Frankly, I don't think the nationality can influence the knowledge of a language. I don't think that he can keep off from the localization group who is not Japanese. Doesn't count if somebody know Japanese language?

This is the exact quote. Sorry, our team accepts only native Japanese speaker.

I have marked #661164: Japanese group maintainer refusing access. Holding up other module translations as duplicate of this report.

@Dokuro: What I meant with I don't think that he can keep off […] is that he doesn't have any rights to do that.

I am changing the title to avoid other people open a different issue just because they don't understand the topic of this report.

@Kiamlaluno,

Yeah, its kind of a shock, but it's not too shocking after living in Japan. You get turned down for many things here because you are not Japanese.

The real issue that I see now is, what do people do? We develop sites, use modules like ubercart, translate them, and then we have no way to give them back to the community. I am sitting on Ubercart 2.0 translations, that I can't submit.

I am sure someone else has translations too, and we are all over lapping our work when we could just come together and submit them.

I have looked at the module that submits them, but I guess you can only do one submission at a time. One submission is well, I don't think I need to elaborate on that.

Hope something can happen.

Shaun

Yeah, its kind of a shock, but it's not too shocking after living in Japan. You get turned down for many things here because you are not Japanese.

I could argue that l.d.o is not Japan land, and then those Japanese rules are not valid; that is OT, anyway.

I think that who manages the localization group on l.d.o is not providing an objective, and valid reason to reject people who is trying to join the localization group.
In this case, I think that something should be done; it is not admissible such behavior.

Cross referencing #663264: Delete Japanese language from l.d.o.

+1, 登録して参加したかったのですが、許可してもらえませんでした。I can not join the group.

エントリーしてみましたが、応答なしでした。
I entried but no reply.

+1

I'm sorry, the following are being written in Japanese.

g.d.o/japan の皆さん

単刀直入に申し上げますが、この茶番劇に望む結末はどのようなものなのでしょうか？
メンテナーとしての私の解任？　参加の完全開放？　あるいはそれ以外の何かでしょうか？
皆さんの要望が何であれ、それらによってもたらされる結果を皆さんで最後まで面倒見ていただけるのでしたら、私のできる範囲でその要望を叶える努力をさせていただきたいと思います。

ただし、その代わりに私の要望も一つ叶えてください。
私の要望は、皆さんの演じる、このようなひどく馬鹿げた茶番劇に、金輪際私を演者として起用しないでいただきたいということです。

では、ご回答をお待ちしております。

I'll reply in English:
I think the majority of people here want to be able to join the group without having to apply so they can contribute or import translations. It's entirely your right since you are the group managerowner, but restricting membership in such a community-involved feature just rubs everyone the wrong way.

EDIT: I meant group owner.

I think that the group manager's rights are limited.

As the localization group influences which modules are used from who needs the Japanese translation, this is a problem that involves the community. It is analogous of when a project contains code licensed under a different license, or that violates a license in someway; the maintainer cannot simply answer that he has all the rights to do it.

@Takafumi: is nice to see you around here, but obviously many of us have not a clue about what you're arguing/commenting

@Japanese speakers: could some of you provide the English version of comments #31, #32, #33 ?

@Arhak

#31 He just says that he wanted to join, but was not allowed. He gave simple English for the same meaning.

#32 This has a translation with it.

#33 I am going to wait for Takafumi to reply with his translation, if he does not in a day or so, then I am sure we can translate this. But part of it talks about people not saying the truth about him. You can see this post too: http://drupal.org/node/663264

@Takafumi

All we want is to be apart of things. I know that a lot of the people who have applied to the group are people who deal with Drupal on a day to day bases. We have a deep desire to see it grow in Japan. I am sure you are looking at this and taking it as an attack on your person. We are not trying to attack you, we are trying to work with you.

I really have a hard time understanding the reasons behind the actions. Is it one of those things where its all mine and I don't want to share? Anyways, I will try to leave my personal feelings out of it as best as I can. I will just ask that you open the group up.

Regards,

Shaun

g.d.o/japan の皆さん

私は #33 に対する皆さんからの回答を引き続きお待ちしておりますが、Drupalの翻訳貢献に対する私のモチベーションはもはやゼロであり、また、皆さんの翻訳貢献に対する並々ならぬ意欲を目の当たりにし、さしあたり過去に承認拒否をした以下の皆さんをすべてメンバーに加えました。
また、最も貢献を熱望した aiwata55、Antoine Lafontaine、Dokuro、qchan にはアドミン権限を与えてありますので、私の判断抜きに自由に活動ができるはずです。

aiwata55 admin
Antoine Lafontaine admin
Dokuro admin
qchan admin
arthor_jp
filmore.ha
fuji@drupal.org
kuwamura
kyoko.oh
nueda
osonoi
reformatt
Shin_
totsubo

@Takafumi: That's great if there's that many people in the group, but for those of us who wanted to join and help translate/import, all we see is http://localize.drupal.org/translate/languages/ja in which only two people have contributed translations (yourself included), 172755 strings to translate, and 0 suggestions awaiting approval. We just don't understand the harm to opening up your group instead of restricting it.

If you don't want to make your group open, please post *something* in Japanese and English as to the requirements to joining your group or why people can't just join. When we get no information back when we request to join, it's very confusing and frustrating. I hope you can understand that.

It's a little funny Takafumi wants Japanese people in the translation group, but he does not write in English where English is the language used to comunicate, which is used also from who does not speak English as first language; in other words, he has been accepted in Drupal even if he does not speak English as first language, but he feels free to not accept who does not speak Japanese as first language.

@Dokuro#37:
I guessed comments #31 & #32 were around what they say in English
I think it's a wise move to let Takafumi the opportunity to provide his own words in English to avoid twisting what he meant, so I'll keep waiting...

@Takafumi:
It is perfectly comprehensible that some discord arise due to misunderstanding even when all of you are (supposed to be) after the same goal
We give (all of) you the benefit of doubt, but...
how do you expect us to know your reasons while you keep talking just to them and not to all of us?
Is that hard to provide your arguments in English?
How are we supposed to know whether you have a point?

I don't know what might be the final outcome to this issue, it might be deciding to let things the same way they are right now,
but I certainly wish/hope that you provide English responses to those requests.
That would be enough to consider a step towards understanding

PS: stating reasons in plain English would be the only requirement I would like to see enforced whenever an l.d.o. issue like this one arises

Could we consider the issue fixed? Or is it better to wait?

@kiamlaluno
It could be deemed as resolved, but I prefer to wait for Takafumi to provide translations for his comments. While I welcome the significant decision he has made, I am not content with the fact that he never made his point clear to everyone who has taken part in this discussion. He also called the series of discussions a farce without a rationale, which he may wish to explain.

If he does not provide the translation by Wednesday (23rd), I will post the translations. I am wary of distorting his message through translation, but I feel it is quite important that his comments are shared with everyone involved. The original message is available here anyway so even if I deliberately twist what he meant, someone will be able to point that out.

FYI if you put his comments through Google Translate, it returns a fairly 'accurate' translation (i.e. you can grasp the meaning)

I would like to post this post from the drupal.jp site. As it really is about this post here.

Here is the orginal link: http://drupal.jp/node/652

But I will copy the text here for the record. Takafumi, do you want to provide a translation for this? I doubt he will so Dokumori, can you provide a good translation for this post, also my post to Japanese if you like.

I will just say this, it does claim that we have hi-jacked the Japanese translations and worse. I will hold my translations on this subject for now.

One important thing I would like to point out his site states that he is "The Official Drupal Site of Japan" (Drupal（ドルーパル）の公認日本サイトです。) Being such, it holds a lot of power in Japan and is referenced on all Drupal books (ex: Latest Pro Drupal Development Book) and information sites such as wikipedia Japan as being the Official Drupal site of Japan, right next to Drupal.org. When people see his site currently, they think that he is backed by Drupal.org and apart of the Drupal.org team. Posting information like this and people thinking that he is the official voice of Drupal in Japan just hurts everything about Drupal in Japan.

The post is below:

Drupal 日本語ディストリビューションおよびリソースキットの更新・配布終了のお知らせ
投稿者： Takafumi 投稿日時： 2009-12-22 (火) 19:53 Drupal Japan | お知らせ

突然なことで大変申し訳なく思いますが、Drupal 6.14 バージョンをもちまして、当サイトにおける「日本語ディストリビューション」および「日本語リソースキット」の更新・配布を終了させていただくことをお知らせいたします。

その理由を端的に説明しますと、現在ベータテスト中であり、近い将来に drupal.org における各国語翻訳ファイルの配布拠点となるローカライゼーションサーバ上の日本語グループが、他の日本コミュニティ（主にWeb制作業者、あるいはその関連業者によって構成される）によって事実上ハイジャックされたため、それを彼・彼女らに移譲することにしたためです。

その経緯や、その根底にあるものは非常に複雑であり、それらをすべて説明しようとすれば、おそらくは Drupal Japan の設立当時まで遡る必要があります。 また、一方の見解のみをここで述べるのはフェアではないとも考えます。従って私は、それらの説明を行うことを放棄し、今はただ、日本の Drupal ユーザーがこれまでと同様、あるいはそれ以上の便益を受けられる貢献活動を、彼・彼女らが一日も早く開始してくれることを願うことにしました。
経緯の説明を願う方々には申し訳ありませんが、その旨ご了承いただけるようお願いいたします。

なお、これに伴う今後の Drupal Japan の活動につきましては、今しばらく検討し、今後三ヶ月程度をめどに結論を出したいと考えております。

最後に、以前用いて好評（あるいは不評）だった「小説からの引用に代弁してもらおう」シリーズの第二弾として、以下の引用を彼・彼女らに贈りたいと思います。
（当然ながらどちらの小説も今回の問題には無関係であり、大変楽しめる内容（もちろん好みは人それぞれですが）だと思いますので、機会があればぜひ読んでみてください）

『僕は第三者の反応に期待してばかりいる。自分は指一本動かそうともせず、第三者が起こすであろう好意的なリアクションを、瞳をぎらぎらさせて待っているだけ……。』【出典： 水没ピアノ　鏡創士がひきもどす犯罪／佐藤友哉 著／講談社刊】

『自分からは何もしないくせに、いつも他人が何をするか気にしてるひとがいるでしょ。ところが、誰かが手を伸ばして何かを手に入れると、それはあたしが欲しかったのにずるいわ、とか、不公平だから分けてちょうだい、とか言い出すのよ。あたしはあの不公平って言葉が嫌いでね。日本のエセ民主主義のイヤーなところを象徴する言葉だわ。』【出典： 上と外／恩田陸 著／講談社刊】

Sorry, maybe all Drupal books is too strong a statement. But the most famous and most recent. Pro Drupal Development.

@Dokuro: If you would translate what you quoted, that could help who doesn't know Japanese.

@kiamlaluno, I think Dokumori would be best. This is important and needs to be done right. Please wait.

@Takafumi-san

I think you have several misunderstandings.

1. You say the translation project was hijacked, but
1-1. There is no one who has a strong power to hijack the project, except for the administrator of the project, who is you (and some other members of drupal.org, but they can be ignored here).
1-2. It was YOU who decided to accept "outsiders" including me.
1-3. You said you lost motivation for the project as the reason, at #38 of this thread. Do you remember?
1-4. While you say the project is hijacked, you are still one of the admins of the project. Do you think such a situation can be called "hijacked"?
1-5. The complaints were just asking instead of forcing you to do some desired action. They didn't use any violent words toward you. When a passenger kindly asks the pilot to go to some place which is different from the destination, and the pilot has freedom to make his own decision whatever it may be, do you call the passenger a hijacker?
1-6. What the complaints asked for is not the project itself, instead, the access to the project. They have sound translated scripts and wanted to submit these scripts as candidates of official Japanese scripts. They didn't try to take over the project.

2. You say the hijack was done by another Japanese user community, but
2-1. Based on your words at #38 and personal e-mails I exchanged with you, I guess this "another community" is "g.d.o./japan." But, first of all, there is no such a real group as g.d.o./japan, in my opinion. It is rather a platform for Japanese Drupal users to exchange opinions and know-hows.
2-2. Even if g.d.o./japan is really a group, it has nothing to do with this discussion. I, Antoine, Dokuro, and others had asked you to allow us to participate in the project, individually. So, there is no dispute between you and the others, as you may think.

By the way, you say "it is not fair to show the opinion of just one perspective, therefore I renounce such an explanation (why I had to stop distributing the Japanese distribution of Drupal at my site)", but Gabor and others urged you to explain your reasoning of the closed project at http://drupal.org/node/663264#comment-2388496 and in this thread, and you have been ignoring them so far. But if you explain your reasoning, future Japanese users can know opinions of the both sides if they visit this thread. Why don't you tell us why you were keeping the project close here, and put a link here on your site?

Here are the translations of Takafumi's comments. I did my best to translate his comments word by word and not interpreting what he said. Again, you can put the original comments through Google Translate for an alternative version.

His words quoted in Dokuro's post (#45) was not posted here but it is obviously referring to this issue so I will translate it and post it here soon.

===============

#33
Members of g.d.o/japan
Let me come right to the point; what do you hope for as the result of
this farce?
My dismissal as the maintainer? Or complete freedom of participation? Or
something else?
Whatever your interests are, if you can be responsible for the result of
it down the line, I would like to endeavour to make it come true to the
best of my ability.

However, please meet my request too.
My request is to never again employ me as a performer of a ridiculous
farce such as this one.

I await your response.

#38
I am still waiting for your response to my comment #33; however my
motivation to contribute to the translation has come to nil. Also after
seeing your extraordinary enthusiasm towards contribution of
translations, I have added all of you as the member whose applications
have previously been rejected.
The members who were most eager to contribute - aiwata55, Antoine
Lafontaine, Dokuro, qchan - are granted with the admin rights that they
should be able to operate freely without my decisions.

=============

Translation of Takafumi's statement on drupal.jp (http://drupal.jp/node/652 ) previously quoted by Dokuro in #45:

=============================

Notice on termination of updating / distribution of Japanese [Drupal] distribution and resource kit

Posted by: Takafumi Date posted: 22/Dec/2009 (Tue) 19:53 Drupal Japan | Notice

I apologise for the short notice, but after Drupal 6.14 'Japanese [Drupal] distribution' and 'Japanese Resource Kit' will no longer be distributed at this site.

Simply stated, the Japanese group on the localisation server, which is at the beta state and will be the distribution centre of translations of multiple languages in the near future, has been effectively hijacked by another Japanese community (which is mainly composed of web development vendors and other relevant vendors) and I have decided to hand it over to them.

Its background and underlying issues is very complicated that if I try to explain it I will need to go back to the time when Drupal Japan was established. Also I find it unfair to describe about the issue from the single perspective; therefore I remise such an explanation. Instead I simply wish that they will start their contribution without a delay so Drupal users in Japan will be benefited as they have been, or even further.

Apologies for those who wish for the explanation, but I would ask you to accept this (translation note: 'this' means 'the lack of explanation' I believe).

Meanwhile, further operation of Drupal Japan will be considered for a period of time, and a decision [on what to do with the site] will be made within about three months.

Lastly, with the second version of 'let quotations do the talking' which was previously popular (or unpopular), I would like to present them the two quotations below.
(Of course the novels have no relation to this issue and I find they are very entertaining(it of course depends on the reader) so please have a read if you get the chance)

'I'm only anticipating others' response. Not moving a single finger, the favourable reaction of the third party I await with eyes glaring'
(Source: 'Suibotsu Piano Kyousoushi ga hikimodosu hanzai', Author: Tomoya Sato, Publisher: Koudansha)

'You know there are people who don't do anything themselves, but keen about what others do. But when someone reach for something and obtain it, they start saying 'I wanted that, you are cunning', or 'share it with me because it's unfair'. I hate that word 'unfair'. It's the word that represents the distasteful characteristic of Japan's pseudo-democracy.'
(Source: 'Ue to soto', Author: Riku Onda, Publisher: Koudansha)

クリスマス（イヴ）にこんなことを書かなきゃならないのは気が滅入るし、またかなり感情的に書くのをお許しください＞all

Shaun の Ubercart のローカライズの書き込みの一件以来、いろいろと激動がありましたが、ここでは書くのを控えていました。
aiwata55 さんが冷静に、真摯に問いかけ、質していらっしゃいますが、「ハイジャックされた」との記述に（たぶんほかの方々同様）心底ムカついていたのは事実です。
ただ、aiwata55 さんの質問に答える前は僕があえて言ってもしょうがないと考えてもいたわけです。僕が書くとまた一悶着起こしそうでしたし(^_^)ゞ
また、localize のサイトではうまく行く兆しが見えていましたから、それに期待するところもありました。

ただ、これにはもうガマンなりません。
Twitter の書き込みを、曲がりなりにも『公認サイト』と称するサイトにこういう形で転記していいのかどうかという問題は別にしても。

2009/12/24 追記：

私自身は説明を放棄することによって、この事態を皆さんにどう捉えられようと構わないと考えています。つまり、どちらが良い悪い（あるいは正しい・正しくない）などという些末な問題には関心がなく、単に混乱なく日本のユーザーがこれまでどおりの便益を受けられればそれで良いという考えです。しかしながら、その一方の当事者がそれを理解できず、相も変わらず愚にもつかない発言を繰り返しているのは本当に残念でなりません。

参考（一部）：
そうそう。ぶっちゃけ、彼のあの書き込み見て「やった」と思いましたよｗ

それで肝心なところは「説明しません」って逃げてる。そりゃそうだ。事実が明らかになれば困るのは彼の方だから。

正しくないというよりはほとんど誹謗中傷に近い逆切れと思ってますけどね。

……そして、この追記を読んでのイタチの最後っ屁のごとき発言

（笑）あぁ、なんとでも言えｗ　言えば言うほどドツボにはまる。本当はそんな殊勝な考えなどないくせに。こちとらもそんなことより前に進むだけ。さいなら〜（爆）

先に述べた「根底にあるもの」の一部には、こういった厚顔無恥かつ理不尽な第三者からの攻撃に対し、私自身が心底辟易しているということが含まれています。

追記ここまで

そもそもハイジャックされたという経緯は、何度も言うけど aiwata55 さんの指摘通りまったく的外れなわけで、それに回答も説明もなく、こういう形であげつらうのはどういう神経をしているのか、まったく理解に苦しみます。
また、自分が騒動の原因であるにもかかわらず、ああいう形で自分は被害者なんだ、Drupal の日本での発展を願っている、みたいなことを平然と書く。本当に小ズルイ。

翻って、僕の Twitter の書き込みが紳士的ではないし上品でもないというのは認めるし自覚もしていますが、あれはまさに私的なつぶやきで、それをこういうふうに公開されたのではたまったものではありません。

Takafumiさん、あなたこそ恥を知りなさい。そもそもご自分が、なんで“糾弾”されているか理解できないんですか？
いままでローカライズに貢献されていたこと（これは、みんな多いに認めています）と、今回の所業とはまったく別物です。
で、これもまたあそこに転記しますか？

しかし、悲しいですね、本当に。
なんか伝わってるかわかりませんし、もっと言いたいことがあったような気もしますが、まとめる気力もないのでこれにて。
あと、もう、この件についてはTwitterには書かないことにしますので、フォローされてても無駄ですよｗ

I'm sorry I can't write in English, because I'm not confident in writing proper English. Please, someone, translate this.

Shin
//
Merry Christmas !!
...and tomorrow is my birthday :-)

Takafumiさん、あなたこそ恥を知りなさい。そもそもご自分が、なんで“糾弾”されているか理解できないんですか？

ふむ、なるほど、私は皆さんから『糾弾』されているわけですね。
私が「茶番劇」と呼ぶこの一連の騒動の当事者の一人から、その事実を直接伺うことができたのは収穫でした。

では、#33 に対する皆さんからの回答を引き続きお待ちしております。

Posted at a wrong place. Deleted by the author.

Because you insist us to answer this question at #33, I will post my answer.

What I want the situation be like is, whether it is totally or with some conditions, make the project open so that those who have translation scripts at hand and eagerness to contribute to the Japanese Drupal community as a whole can submit their scripts as candidates. That's it. Not that I become an admin. Nor your resignation as an admin.

(hmm, it seems that i cannot place my reply under the post to which I am replying. sorry for multiple posts.)

@aiwata55: Probably he is not able to work in a group, and he wants to be the only one to decide, whenever he gets the right decision, or not. That is the only reason I can find for not wanting other people to be part of the localization group; if he accepted to open the group to more people is just because he has been forced, in someway.

@Shin_ Please do not use this thread to attack someone. Use your own website if you have one. Whether or not you addressed your tweets to the public, you decided to make it public and you cannot hold people accountable for quoting them (for example, what if others retweet?). For further discussion about your case please email personally, but don't post anything here and don't flame this thread.

@aiwata55 Thanks for answering. +1

@Takafumi If you are still following this thread and willing to comment, could you also provide your answer to the people here in English. We are also waiting for your response.

@dokumori
I see. Thank you for your comment. See you.

Wow... 58 comments for something that should have been already resolved.

@Takafumi-san

Last time you called me "a hijacker" and this time "a thief." (http://drupal.jp/node/652)

If you have so much complaint against making the translation group open, why on earth you let us join? Instead, why didn't you explain your reason of keeping the group closed? If your reasoning is convincing enough, people would have let you run the project as it was.

Moreover, can you not see that I am trying to put a comparatively peaceful end to this event by explaining that the change was brought about as a consequence of a constructive discussion? (http://groups.drupal.org/node/41300) That's because a confusion like this does not bring any good to the community and the Drupal project, I believe. Is there any benefit for you or for the Japanese Drupal community by saying that we stole your project and by showing the community that we are fighting (note that I have no intent to fight with you)? What is the benefit then?

Please join the discussion. I am not trying to attack you personally. Please help me understand your argument. I hope we can reach a better conclusion which hopefully satisfies the both parties.

Please be responsible for your decision. As I said earlier, it was you who decided to accept other members, even if you decided so as a result of our requests. There was no one else who could, because you were the sole administrator of the project. Please accept this fact, and stop complaining about it, blaming us with abusive words. Your current actions will do no good for you and the community, I think.

Best regards,

Aki Iwata

Go away for Christmas and come back to nothing but good cheer!..ha

Anyways, it's important to keep a record for everything.

His new post copied for the record:

投稿者： Takafumi 投稿日時： 2009-12-22 (火) 19:53 Drupal Japan | お知らせ

突然なことで大変申し訳なく思いますが、Drupal 6.14 バージョンをもちまして、当サイトにおける「日本語ディストリビューション」および「日本語リソースキット」の更新・配布を終了させていただくことをお知らせいたします。
[2009/12/24、同月/26 一部追記および修正有り]

その理由を端的に説明しますと、他の日本コミュニティ（主にWeb制作業者、あるいはその関連業者で構成される）による「当事者間にしか知り得ない狡猾かつ陰湿な工作を用いて対象者を精神的な疲弊に追い込み強制的に自らの目的を達成する行為」が事実上成功を収め、現在ベータテスト中であり、近い将来に drupal.org における各国語翻訳ファイルの配布拠点となるローカライゼーションサーバ上の日本語グループが実質的に彼・彼女らの支配下に置かれたため、これを機に翻訳への貢献を終了し、それを彼・彼女らに委ねることにしたためです。（2009/12/26 修正：事態の結果を端的に説明するために「ハイジャック」という言葉を用いましたが、一方の当事者がそれを不服としているようですので変更しました。これについては『日本語翻訳プロジェクト運営体系の変更について』を参照してください。ちなみに私は、当該のポストに相応しいタイトルは「盗人にも三分の理」がより適切なのではないかと考えますが、ともあれ、彼・彼女らには今後は闘争ではなく調和と繁栄を期待します）

その経緯や、その根底にあるものは非常に複雑であり、それらをすべて説明しようとすればおそらくは Drupal Japan の設立当時まで遡る必要があります。また、一方の見解のみをここで述べるのはフェアではないとも考えますので、私はそれらの説明を行うことを放棄し、今はただ、日本の Drupal ユーザーがこれまでと同様、あるいはそれ以上の便益を受けられる貢献活動を、彼・彼女らが一日も早く開始してくれることを願うことにしました。
経緯の説明を願う方々には申し訳ありませんが、その旨ご了承ください。

2009/12/24 追記：
私自身は説明を放棄することによって、この事態を皆さんにどう捉えられようと構わないと考えています。つまり、どちらが良い悪い（あるいは正しい・正しくない）などという些末な問題には関心がなく、単に混乱なく日本のユーザーがこれまでどおりの便益を受けられればそれで良いという考えです。しかしながら、その一方の当事者がそれを理解できず、相も変わらず愚にもつかない発言を繰り返しているのは本当に残念でなりません。
参考（一部）：

* そうそう。ぶっちゃけ、彼のあの書き込み見て「やった」と思いましたよｗ
* それで肝心なところは「説明しません」って逃げてる。そりゃそうだ。事実が明らかになれば困るのは彼の方だから。
* 正しくないというよりはほとんど誹謗中傷に近い逆切れと思ってますけどね。

……そして、この追記を読んでのイタチの最後っ屁のごとき発言

* （笑）あぁ、なんとでも言えｗ　言えば言うほどドツボにはまる。本当はそんな殊勝な考えなどないくせに。こちとらもそんなことより前に進むだけ。さいなら〜（爆）

先に述べた「根底にあるもの」の一部には、こういった Drupal Japan を快く思わない方々からの理不尽かつ厚顔無恥な攻撃に対し、私自身が心底辟易しているということが含まれています。
2009/12/24 追記ここまで

なお、これに伴う今後の Drupal Japan の活動につきましては、今しばらく検討し、今後三ヶ月程度をめどに結論を出したいと考えております。（もし何かご提案いただける場合には、コンタクトフォームからご連絡ください）

最後に、以前用いて好評（あるいは不評）だった「小説からの引用に代弁してもらおう」シリーズの第二弾として、以下の引用を彼・彼女らに贈りたいと思います。
（当然ながらどちらの小説も今回の問題には無関係であり、大変楽しめる内容（もちろん好みは人それぞれですが）だと思いますので、機会があればぜひ読んでみてください）

『僕は第三者の反応に期待してばかりいる。自分は指一本動かそうともせず、第三者が起こすであろう好意的なリアクションを、瞳をぎらぎらさせて待っているだけ……。』【出典： 水没ピアノ　鏡創士がひきもどす犯罪／佐藤友哉 著／講談社刊】

『自分からは何もしないくせに、いつも他人が何をするか気にしてるひとがいるでしょ。ところが、誰かが手を伸ばして何かを手に入れると、それはあたしが欲しかったのにずるいわ、とか、不公平だから分けてちょうだい、とか言い出すのよ。あたしはあの不公平って言葉が嫌いでね。日本のエセ民主主義のイヤーなところを象徴する言葉だわ。』【出典： 上と外／恩田陸 著／講談社刊】

Regards,

Shaun

I'm sorry everyone, for keeping commenting, but i just cannot ignore Takafumi's words on his site.

@takafumi-san,
on http://drupal.jp/node/652, you say

"an act to forcibly achieve their aim by driving the subject (i.e., Takafumi-san) to mentally exhausted with cunning and sly tactics which only the parties directly concerned can know" effectively succeeded, ... and the Japanese translation group virtually became under their management, on this occasion I decided to stop my contribution to the translation ... I hope them harmony and prosperity instead of struggle from now on.

when you accuse someone, you should provide the proof of the subject's evil act, I think. Your word imply that I or we did some cunning attack privately. Why don't you provide its proof? It was you who asked me to keep our conversation private. If you say I was cunning and threatened you to open the group, why don't you make these e-mal exchange public as the proof of your claim? I'm absolutely OK with it. Or, if you cannot find time for it, may I post these e-mails with English translation?

Also, you imply that I or we attacked you in the last line of the quoted text above. But it is clear from this thread that each one of us was just asking for a permission to join the group, unless there was a cunning and sly act which only the parties directly concerned can know really existed, as you claim. I want that proof, too.

@Takafumi-san

Because you attack us irrationally, we (if not, at least I) attack you back with criticisms aimed at flaws in your supposed-to-be-logic behind these attacks(not aimed at your personality). When you stop attacking like it, then we can discuss or talk, as I was trying.

Each has his/her own idea and it cannot be perfect. So, through a discussion like this, we try to come up with a better idea which will satisfies the most of the participants of the discussion.

I wish you understood this point.

It seems that this report went a little OT.

I don't see the point of replying here for things said on another web site. Whatever he says in the other site is not something that Drupal.org webmasters are interested in; the main interest was to resolve a problem present in the Japanese translation group, and which seems now resolved.

#kiamlaluno

Because he seems to try to provide the public with an image that we are a cunning attacker and he is the victim, which I believe is not true, I became a little angry and therefore was overreacting to him, I suppose. I apologize for my behavior. Thank you for cooling me down.

@aiwata55: I perfectly understand your feeling, and I have already expressed my opinion that what Takafumi was doing was not something that should be allowed.
I also think that at this point is perfectly useless to keep to reply back to Takafumi, who seems to still think he was right. In such cases, it is better to stop replying back; if a dog barks to you, stay away from it and it will stop barking.

@kiamlaluno

Thank you very much for your sympathy. You may not know, but it saves me a lot.

I'm really interested in growing Drupal in Japan and came across this thread.
After reading this whole thread and others, I am glad to see the community is coming together for Japan =)
Looking forward to a great 2010!