Make Bartik the default core theme

Yes, +1. It blends very nicely with the default Seven admin theme, and provides a much better first experience than Garland. Definitely would give D7 the refresh it deserves for the initial experience.

Whatever we have as the default, people WILL start editing and treat as an example.

+1
Absolutely! Bartik is a great example, and I think it's a much better starting point for new theme builders than Garland, despite the work that has gone into making Garland suck less. I mean, let's face it, new theme builders (and even some experienced ones...) are going to hack on core themes to make them look 'just right'. Might as well give them a good 'jumping off' point, right?

In addition, I agree that it's more visually compatible with Seven and the overlay.

I'd really really really love to see this happen.

D7 really changes the face of Drupal. With that, I feel we need a change in the default theme. Garland just doesn't cut it. I believe Bartik is the best candidate for this change. It is REALLY flexible. The regions are very logical. And it flows seamlessly with Seven, Drupal 7's default administration theme.

Bartik becoming the default theme for Drupal 7 would be a huge step forward, bringing a excellent new look to Drupal right out of the box.

+1 #4 - Bartik flows very nicely with Seven, something I recognized very early on and began earmarking this theme for default to replace Garland.

Garland has had its day, I really hope we can replace it.

I would be very good if we could start gathering a task list for what needs to happen to make this work - I patched some tests for Garland way way back so I assume there's tests and other we need patches for?

We had Garland for five years. We made a Drupal 7 that's SO AWESOME it rocks my socks. Let's give it a pretty new face.

-1 for Bartik
I dont like Bartik at all. I find it boring and depressing. I also dont like any theme that has too much functionality, menu, links, navigation etc. on the footer area. Why I should scroll all the way down to see that there is a pool which I can vote on the website? Im talking about the demo site which is linked on project page; http://bartik.labs.treehouseagency.com/.

-1 for Bartik as default
Shouldnt you wait asking about this until Bartik and/or Corolla gets into the core and beta1 releases first? I mean if Dries/webchick has commented to you about their decision and signaled you to move on with the next steps just like Bartik is already included, feel free to share that back-channel info with us. We are all friends here, arent we :)

-1 for not being fair player
Bartik is not the only theme running for core inclusion. Corolla also wants to get into the core and most probably once(and if) it gets into the core, Im pretty sure, its developers will want to see it as default theme as well. By starting this issue a bit early and as if your ignoring your competitors(if thats the right word) existence, your not showing a fair play here. I mean, do we really want a seperate issue for each core theme to discuss if they should be the default or we would prefer only one issue to discuss which one should be the default? After all we will just give our (-1)s and (+1)s and at the end Dries/webchick will make a decision either according to our comments or by ignoring them.

Sorry if I sounded harsh...

Please see: #845810: Choose the default theme for Drupal 7: Bartik, Corolla or Garland?

Sub.

Even though it will be sad to see the traditional garland die, I have to admit Bartik is much more drupal 7 than garland as a styling/branding choice on one side and as a more flexible, modern, stylish and still neutral theme on the other.
It is also on the right path with drupal.org redesign (which quite resembles blue-lagoon - the new default) and with seven as an admin theme.

+1 from me.

@jensimmons
I dont know why you are getting offended. Maybe you are ultra sensitive these days. Anyhow, I do apologize, offending you was not my intention.

The next time you ask something to public and say "lets discuss", I will keep my mouth shut, wont share what I think and everybody will be happy ;)

@jensimmons I don't think anyone accused you of being an asshole. And even if someone did then you really shouldn't let it get to you.

The theme is awesome.

+1 from me

Let's start working on this, then. There is probably a fair amount of tests that actually rely on Garland we need to hunt those down.

+1 for Bartik

While I have nothing against Garland (and use it as the admin theme for my sites) - I use it because it's "default" and I know that any new functionality / bug-fixes in a Drupal release are tested against it.

That said, it's certainly not a theme I would recommend to friends for use on the public-facing aspects of their own sites. It is a bit off-putting to install Drupal and have it be this odd, fluid-width blue eye-sore. It doesn't do the robust functionality of Drupal justice. Then again, neither does the design of Drupal.org but thankfully that remedy is already brewing.

For those that have said Bartik is bland: If even if that were true (I'd say it's not), that's kind of the point of a base theme. However, I would describe it as muted. A base theme needn't be eye-grabbing. What it should be is tasteful, which I think Bartik is.

Bottom-line: With D6, it takes a lot of convincing to show people that in fact, Drupal can power beautiful sites. I welcome anything that helps remove barriers to adoption.

+1 from me. Without a doubt, this should be included in Core. Drupal 7 needed a new good looking face. It has that, in part, with Seven but this would be the icing on a cake. With a cherry.

I think everyone wants a new default theme. No need to +1 that. The candidates are Corolla and Bartik. This issue is for deciding that, and for fixing broken tests and such. Adjust title accordingly.

In the end, this is a matter of taste and I think webchick and dries just have to choose.

+1 for Bartik as default. I'd much rather see this as people's starting place than anything else I've seen so far. Great work jen and all involved!

I'm as big a fan of Bartik as the next guy, but I really think this discussion is pointless until we know for sure if Corolla is going to make it to core (which it most likely will), at which point we can debate between Bartik and Corolla. If it's Bartik vs. Garland, there's not much debate, but Bartik vs. Corolla is a little fuzzier.

I'm not going to mark this as Postponed since I'm sure it will get changed back, but I really think we should save our energy here until Corolla's fate is known, at which point a more general issue title like that of #845810: Choose the default theme for Drupal 7: Bartik, Corolla or Garland? would be necessary.

CNW since patch failed.

I don't mean to offend—I just don't (also) want the maintainer(s) of Corolla, and/or Garland (are there any dedicated Garland maintainers?) to feel left out in this very important discussion.

I really, REALLY don't want something like this to happen: http://acko.net/blog/drupals-designer-future (from the Garland theme designer, on his experience designing Garland...).

Getting slowly there. This should fix most of the tests, I made some more generic when it made sense, or simply forced garland.

Oups. Now there.

Same patch with Corolla, let's see what breaks.

+1 this theme is beautiful : way to go everyone who help out on this theme!

Also a big, fat +1 for making Bartik the default theme...

Garland, we knew you well and you were always loyal to us... but like Old Yeller the time has come to put you down.

---------
A quick response to geerlingguy in #22. The link you posted was uber interesting (thanks!), however it seemed to focus on the Steven Witten's (perhaps justified) dissatisfaction that the whole Drupal community was taking credit when only three people put in all the hard work creating Garland.

Please take a look at http://drupal.org/node/683026#comment-2980712 (and note that it was posted 6 weeks and dozens of patches ago!!!!)

Bartik was a group effort (and gloriously so). The Carolla developers (several of whom overlap with Bartik team) have just as much right and opportunity to campaign for Carolla. No one is being left out here.

It seems to me that the themer community has come a long way since that blog posting in 2007!!

I reported the legitimate failure of Corolla in the other issue. There are two false positives that we need to fix in the tests:

• NodeTitleTestCase::testNodeTitle() cannot find the node title because it uses //div[@id=:id]/h2/a instead of //div[@id=:id]//h2/a, so the additional node-header div of Corolla makes the XPath expression fail
• RdfCommentAttributesTestCase::_testBasicCommentRdfaMarkup() assumes that there is a <div class="comment-body">, but this one is not in the default markup

FYI ... I tried out the patch in #24 and it applied nicely and looked so pretty

cross post

Alright, so obviously this discussion was out there to happen. Although I have no doubt that Corolla is an exceptional theme, I do not find it necessarily to discuss it before its in Core, because to met there are still many questionable parts to Corolla. Focusing on Batrik I have supported Batrik as the new theme into Drupal because I find its brand very striking (back when it was gray), for further discussion I am going to leave out all technical considerations as that is where Garland is of course lengths behind.

Apart from code excellence our visual brand is in a nutshell: Garland and it's bluish nature - so taking that as our current brand, we need to look for Drupal 7 what can Batrik do to increase or better this brand?

I am going to somewhat try to ignore the current look of Batrik, knowing that it will change quite a bit. Looking at the fundamentals is it a very lean and clean allowing us to present Drupal as something of the new age. Garland looks visually very impressing (especially for a non-designer) but does not focus on complementing the content where as Batrik focuses very much on bringing the actual content to the foreground with limited visual distractions.

This to me would be a main selling point - looking at our very large user base. Some of the questions we need to ask :

1. Is it visually attractive enough to attract people to use Drupal? - quality/credibility
2. Does it adhere to the Drupal brand(new one)? - association to the Drupal brand
3. Is it a long-term standing choice in strategy?

So to answer my own questions.

1. No, I don't think that Batrik looks visually attractive enough to attract people to use Drupal. Simply because its optimized for actual content and by default Drupal ships with no content, so very distinctive attractive elements are not displayed at first. Its kinda a sad Drupal core problem, but one we have to realistically accept at this stage.
2. Yes, maybe even a bit to much as it could cause confusion in terms of similarity to the Drupal.org redesign theme. Knowing that this will probably change quite a bit, I think it will still be fine and a good association to the Drupal brand.
3. Maybe, I think Batrik is definitely the way to go if we want to attract more designers to Drupal as it shows we care about clean and lean design/semantics. But I am not sure if it will attract more non-designers as visually its very slim.

I think for a user Batrik makes much more sense to enable after you created some content and maybe added a picture or two to understand and explore the hopefully then exciting Drupal theme universe. Especially with the current color scheme which seems more rushed than the gray one, there is still visually a lot of clean up to do for example;

• The footer visual style does not correspond with the main visual style
• Druplicon is visually not connected to the theme in terms of color usage
• The header gradient is far to much Garland/Drupal.org redesign a like - allowing for brand and style confusion, also lessing the visual strength
• The main navigation tabs are blue on a blue background allow for little contrast on the most important navigation

I am still on the fence whether it makes sense as a default, maybe we can fix the color scheme?

I would love if this discussion could be about our brand and whether Batrik adds the value to it we want as a default, understanding our constraints, ignoring that we all would love Garland to go away - but looking at it from a new user who just takes a glance at Drupal.

Corolla is out, so let's commit #24 and deal with all the issues raised by Bojhan in follow-ups. Bartik will never reach the level of refinement that we all expect if we don't make it the default theme right away.

I also support this change. Garland has been the face of Drupal since 2007. It's time for something new.

As others have said, Bartik complements the Seven admin theme well, and in its current incarnation looks like a very nice visual refresh on our historic brand.

I'm ok with committing this, but will leave it for tomorrow night in case Dries is not.

I highly disagree with the notion of rushing this decision, its foolish and will be explanatory to the community its misunderstanding of our design brand.

Even not taking into considering all my points, looking at Batrik now it is clearly not ready as the default theme. Please, there hasn't even been any discussion!

The point is, if we don't make Bartik the default theme *now*, it will never be ready.

I don't believe in now or never approaches to the most important design decision we can make for the next 3 years. This should be an informed design discussion with design review on the branding and work on fixing the color scheme.

Changing title back now that Corolla has unfortunately been moved to 8.x.

Copy pasting below acc. to http://drupal.org/node/845810#comment-3172920

Garland is (or was) pathbreakingly new! It may have tired everyday Drupaller's eyes but the fact is that it continues to be something new that came from Drupal.

Other themes like Bartik with its array of roundedcorner buttons is actually cliche when similar or almost similar themes have been lying there in wordpress, e107 etc. Except perhaps that it is black and white till now. Bartik or Corolla are not something actually new in the world of themes in the sense Garland was "new".

Drupal needed something pathbreakingly new like Garland and something super easy to customize like Wordpress twentyten or constructor.

Except Drupal all other major communities have open and nicely linked voting pages. I will like to vote for Garland OR something as new as it was!

PS : Bartik is neat but Bartik as of now with its dull black grey appearance is psychologically very depressing.

Bojhan, regarding your points:
1. You already mention yourself this is more of a core problem of not having default content, which at this stage we have to accept as an issue with core, not Bartik.
2. Branding-wise, I'd agree this is on target
3. What do you mean with attracting non-designers? You worry about lack of appeal to the general new public? First impression too sparse?

Compare:
Garland: http://img.skitch.com/20100707-np95915nqcfdrwre7um48mnqas.jpg
Bartik: http://img.skitch.com/20100707-rkmtshd1ngrkrt56ycrj19xwnp.jpg
Taken at 1024*768

It's absolutely true that the first impression is very, ehm, empty. There's a wrapping div somewhere with id="first-time" on it, which would allow for some specific tweaks for this first screen. ( I used that to make the 'Add new content' button a lot bigger in one of my themes: http://img.skitch.com/20100707-tp1ckxwkcw9dqmn7gfnn9q1ypp.jpg)

So, to make this an informed design decision, it would be good for Jen to write up her rationale for this design and give her reasoning for why Bartik should be default. She probably did this already in multiple places, but it seems that this is the issue where it should be documented so that we can refer back to it.

I'm OK with making Bartik the default theme but I do think we need to do more to get the initial impression right. Most of that might be content related in which case it could be tackled in a different issue.

Some of it is probably related to the design of Bartik -- and I'm not sure how to address that, if it needs to be addressed at all. It's just one small example, but making Bartik the default theme would aggressively promote the black and white Druplicon as the default. Not necessarily the end of the world, but these are all things we should carefully consider.

#79582: Add example content to the experimental out-of-the-box demo install profile for example

title...

I don't think that Batrik looks visually attractive enough to attract people to use Drupal. Simply because its optimized for actual content and by default Drupal ships with no content, so very distinctive attractive elements are not displayed at first. Its kinda a sad Drupal core problem, but one we have to realistically accept at this stage.

Not sure why it's necessarily something we have to accept at this stage? (Default content could be added in the standard install profile at any time before release, I would think; it's certainly not an API change or anything.)

After looking at the whole back-and-forth of this issue, I wanted to say that I also support making Bartik the new core theme, especially now that gray is not the default color scheme.

Regardless of what issues may remain with Bartik, Drupal desperately needs a new theme to greet first-time installers. (If nothing else, WordPress 3 has a new default theme.) Garland was great in its day, but has gotten a bit cliche. Bartik definitely looks more fresh and modern, and I was happy to have contributed, in some small way, to it.

I understand Dries' concern about the black-and-white Druplicon though. Perhaps that could be addressed in a follow-up issue?

-1 for Bartik, it's just not ready for the default theme and we should wait for other(s) candidates to join the discussion instead of actually nominating bartik as the default when clearly other themes would want or are in the process of being included in core.

-1 for jensimmons sensitivity about comment #7, nobody called you an asshole or a cheater so stop being so sensitive women.

A default theme for Drupal7 should be stylish, attractive and clean. Bartik just feels like garland with a nicer layout to me. We should instead gather all the candidates as in
#845810: Choose the default theme for Drupal 7: Bartik, Corolla or Garland?

I agree that opening this issue before the core theme debate was decided was in poor taste. But now it has, and we have one contender, so that now makes this a pretty no-brainer choice. Unless of course we want to stick with Garland for another 5 years, which from what I'm reading here, none of us do.

I actually also agree that Bartik isn't ready right now to be the default core theme (and neither is/was Corolla). There are still outstanding visual glitches that need to get fixed (for example, I agree with Dries's assessment about the default logo), and general massaging that needs to get done on the overall core UX front to make Drupal 7 not look like a barren wasteland out of the box. But in order for those improvements to happen in the timeframe that we need them to happen in (aka, ASAP, yesterday, last week), we need to get Bartik in peoples' faces sooner than later.

So, committed #24 to HEAD.

As a side note, I'm really disappointed to see personal attacks in here. That stuff does not belong in this community. We're all here to help Drupal be the best it can possibly be, and let's please remember that.

Yesterday was kind of a tough day. Spains football team also had no mercy :(

Sure the Corolla team (if it can be called such) is disappointed. I do not support the personal attacks here and on other posts, though. But to give my thoughs on this will sum it up into a well-written post ;)

The main and most important thing of the new core themes is to make sure D7 looks different in every respect so there is no doubt to the looker-on D7 it is _all_ new.
So while I see the color schemes still need some work and we can make them a lot prettier, a wholehearted +1 for Bartik as default theme.

Still, there is something more we can do, which is really cheap and needs designers to draw together #846340: Improve Garland Color Schemes

And I strongly support Bojhan in Bartik needs some work. I know Jen is not gonna like it, but I will point to that post in which I tried to adress some of the pain points I see. I got "we are not redesigning Bartik at this point" answer for several times from Jen, which I think was right at the time.

#826314: Design Review and improvement proposals

But now definitely is the time, if there can be one. Am still not proposing a redesign (never seen it that way) but work on the pain points: Logo, Sidebar blocks, Header, Main Menu (and of course color schemes). Those can be worked on in separate issues. The proposals in the referenced issue were just meant to trigger a discussion. Am sure there are possibilities to do it in a way that more keeps Bartiks general style.

So to make this easier lets collect all issues that we found in this thread, I will start making issues later.

@eigentor Don't worry - we should be allowed to make changes, its opensource after all and its not Garland process a-like.

As someone new to Drupal I have to admit being a little put off by this whole process. It makes me think about maybe looking at joomla again. Actually, I don't see any sign of process here, or even that much teamwork. In the end Bartik is Jens theme just as Corolla is Jarek's.
A core theme should be developed as a core project, with design requirements established at the beginning rather than at the end.These requirements should have been developed as part of a modern design process and not be based on an existing tablet, Garland, as a reference point. I really felt at some times that the requirement was to be as good as, better than, and also not different from, Garland, all at the same time.
Most of the CMS's I see out there strive to offer sample themes out of the box that work though possibly don't inspire yet are still strong bases for all the creativity that results in thousands of contributed themes. Having 1,2, or more doesn't make much difference. If Corolla can't be 'default' I don't see why it can't be core(as long as it doesn't break Drupal) given the current process for developing core themes.
I recognize the pressures of near term release but I don't think that means the door should be slammed on new 'core' themes, assuming you developed a real process to admit them. Waiting for Drupal 8 will, in the near future, garner the same comments being thrown at Garland for Bartik.

Sorry for beating this to death, just my 2 cents.

I'll try and provide some context. Dates are bold for scanning purposes, not because I'm yelling. :)

Drupal 7 has been in development since February 2008. A new release of Drupal goes through several stages of development: "code thaw," where basically the doors are wide open and we all try and get our pet features and changes in, "code freeze," where APIs are locked down and we focus on bug fixes and finalizing UI tweaks, and then "release period" where we hammer down the critical bug queue until it hits zero, at which point we ship "X.0" and everyone rejoices.

Drupal 7 has been odd, because it had a really long code thaw, ~1.5 years - code freeze was September 2009, where normally it only lasts for 6-8 months. This was great, because it allowed us to tackle several huge initiatives that really needed to get done: the replacement of our database abstraction layer, the addition of a unit testing framework and regression tests, CCK and Image handling in core, and hundreds of usability improvements. But the downside is that such a long code thaw left lots of things to clean up, both code-wise and UI-wise. We invented a new phase called "code slush" for doing these kinds of clean-ups, and code slush lasted September to December 2009. I rolled the first release of Drupal 7, alpha 1 in January 2010, kicking off our "release phase" where the focus is on smashing the critical bug queue. It is now July 2010, 29 months after development kicked off, and we still haven't released (but we're down about 100 critical bugs since then, so w00t!).

This new theme initiative started (at least as far as the first time a core issue cropped up about it, which put it on everyone's radar) in January 2010, 23 months after Drupal 7 opened for development, 5 months after code freeze, and 1 month after we were supposed to be done with changes to the UI. Now to a certain extent, this makes sense. You don't want to be making a theme while core developers are busy moving around/renaming template files, changing Drupal's default markup, etc. (And in fact, from time to time, we are even still making subtle changes, when we have to, in order to address critical issues.) And, because the idea was very appealing of Drupal 7 shipping with not only non-ugly core themes, but also something out of the box that made it very visually distinctive from previous releases of Drupal (the last time Drupal got a face-lift was in Drupal 5, which was released in February 2007), Dries and I took a calculated risk of allowing this theme initiative to continue for Drupal 7, even though it was well after the point where it should've started, and the whole thing by rights should've been kicked to Drupal 8 due to where we were with our release cycle at the time.

Three people stepped up to create a new theme for core. Everyone was super excited, that finally Drupal might ship with not only no ugly, table-based themes, but even NICE ones that we were really proud of, and a whole new look and feel for our default install! Huzzah!! The problem was that after the excitement died down, it turned out we really only had a handful of people actually doing the work on these new themes. It became clear pretty soon after that we were going to end up not with three beautiful themes, but three broken, half-working themes, unless we extended the life of Drupal 7 another 12-18 months, which we simply can't do at this point. Deadlines flew by... first March, then May, then June... and in the meantime our critical issues are edging toward zero, and we're actually on the cusp (relatively speaking) of getting the upgrade path hammered out, which triggers the first beta release (when things really, really have to be locked down).

So in the end, a call needed to be made. Kick all of the themes to Drupal 8, or commit one or both of the ones in progress, bearing in mind the current state of both themes, and the resources we have to hammer out final issues without pushing off Drupal 7's release date. The call was made, and it was an extremely difficult call to make, but I stand by it.

As far as process goes, where you see lack of process, to a large extent that's because we're trying to figure out what our process is. (And despite what he must think of me, I will say that jarek was actually extremely helpful here; he saw a lack of guidelines and dove in on an initiative to help define them.) Garland was co-authored by a core committer. It's unprecedented for our project to have an organic, bottom-up initiative by several designers to get a new core theme in. (We did have a grassroots initiative by several programmers around the same time as Garland, and that's what resulted in the Zen theme, which remains to this day the most popular theme in contrib.) I think we've all learned a lot from our initial stab at this process, and hopefully at Drupalcon can collaborate together to take some of these lessons and ensure the next release's process goes much, much smoother for all involved.

In the meantime, the good news is that Drupal 7 will have a new face to the world, and that face will not be Garland. :) And every single person who had anything to do with that should be patting themselves on the back right now.

Edit: Sorry, I fail at math. :P

re: drocks

I take a little offense to the idea that Bartik is "Jen's theme." She was certainly the leader of the Bartik project (and has been doing a great job with it), but please take a look at http://drupal.org/node/683026#comment-2980712 ... over 40 people have worked on Bartik and that was 6 weeks ago... since then even more people have contributed. This was a community effort...

You can like Bartik or hate it... and you can like the process or hate it... and you can agree with webchick's explanation in #56 or not... But please keep your arguments/opinions constructive and factual.

#55 has a point (other than looking at Joomla). How are these things decided, and where does the community get to weigh in?

"I agree that opening this issue before the core theme debate was decided was in poor taste."

I was kind of expecting some kind of poll to allow the community to weigh in with their thoughts. Maybe it did and I didn't see it, but its hard to keep up with this in threads and IRC, but the choice has been made.

In this community, you "vote" by working on things that you want to see happen, not with polls.

If all the people who wanted to see Corolla and Busy get in had been offering reviews, patches, and testing the entire way along, this whole thing would've ended quite differently. :\

Also, given that we are ~60 replies in here, let's start a separate issue to track meta issues with Bartik. This one is fixed.

Visibility would be the issue then I suppose. I find out about things at the tail end of it, but thats me.

Since Jen was the only one who got to say 'no, we are doing it this way' I would deduce it was her theme.

The comments in #56 were very helpful. It would be nice to know where to get this kind of information on a general basis. I know that people here, as in all open source projects, are keenly interested in every comment and often sensitive but I really did edit out the negative comments. They were as factual as what was available to me and I thought criticism of the process to be constructive, unless you envision doing this exactly the same way next time.

My knowledge of Drupal comes from these discussions and what is available at drupal.org. I haven't, and probably won't, be going to a drupal conference and I don't think there is a Drupal user group in my state(New Mexico).

Now that I have trotted out my 'sensitivity' for a walk I have to admit one of the strongest deciders on my participation in an open source project is the level of hubris displayed in response to the comments of others, especially newcomers. I haven't been completely happy here but I recognize that black on white text is too often a red flag to many and the real curse of the email age, may it fade again to the art of writing.

dcrocks: "It would be nice to know where to get this kind of information on a general basis."

Most of it was stated on drupal.org at various points, as well as in Dries' and webchick's talks over the past year. The slides from the most recent two Drupalcons outlined the code freeze deadlines, etc.

Also, of course, there is always #drupal IRC.

Thx webchick for the very thoughtful and isightful post.
Yeah, this is all about finding a process. Drupal 7 has embraced UX in a tremendous way. But we find out that UX and Design are still two pairs of shoes, even if related. There has been a lot of talk but much more action in the last two years to change that. (D4D, Fusion, Skinr, Acquia Theme Builder, Theme Clubs embracing Drupal...)

Having a nice new core and even default theme is a really strong signal to Designers out there. Being stuck with Garland for one more release would have been a nightmare in proving that Drupal is a good place for Designers. Now we need to think more about how to get in more frontend people to avoid being out of resources so badly the next time around. I guess there are lots of things we can do, trying to see Drupal through the eyes of a front-end oriented person arriving for the first time and wanting to know what the hell this Drupal thing is.

A lot involves the new Drupal.org and how to present our Designs and design-oriented actions there.

@63, in support of Jen she as the designer had to keep her design vision intact and guide the project as webchick does hers. We provided the bulk of the code patches and indeed Bartik is very much a community effort.

I just found a little something that was missed in the patch to make Bartik the default theme. The comments in theme.maintenance.inc say Garland where (I think) it should say Bartik.

Indeed :) Thanks for the patch!

Yeah, drop it in. Bartik needs Feedback.

Ummmm ... Dont change issue titles ... especially if your spamming and/or stoned

not that familiar with bartik but I can say that garland does look a little flat to me and an improvement is needed

I've moved the patch from #67 (RTBC in #68) over to #865072: Bartik is default theme now ... documentation & tests need to be changed so we can keep this issue marked as fixed.

I'm afraid that aschiwi's patch is going to get lost...

@#63

> Since Jen was the only one who got to say 'no, we are doing it this way' I would deduce it was her theme.

Actually, when I've reviewed both Bartik and Corrola there have been occasions where I've said to the respective designers that something needs to be done differently. Eg I think for both I said having two sidebars was an essential.