By jasonwhat on

I noticed that wiki.module is not being updated for 4.5. There is also the dwiki module in the cvs repository, but not on the projects page. It looks promising, but there are no real instructions for us wiki newbies about the proper syntax to use. Are there any plans for wiki implementation into drupal? It seems like the book.module is useful here, but there needs to be some way to segregate books on sites that utilize it alot so there isn't 100 potential "parents" in a dropdown whenever someone wants to add a book page.

Any thoughts on all this are appreciatted, as well as any advice on the proper syntax for wiki words and how to best use them in drupal.

Comments

chrisada’s picture

chrisada commented

Well, there is wmfilter.module

axel’s picture

axel commented

I work on WaterWiki - core of wiki engine (without syntax and versions support, which must be separate modules). Info was posted in drupal-devel in December. Module is uncomplete but most functions works, developers may look to code in CVS sandbox/axel/waterwiki.

--
Axel,
Russian Drupal Community

axel’s picture

axel commented

Though work on waterwiki stoped now it will be continued. Some screens from december' version (discussion was in devel-list):
http://lists.drupal.org/archives/drupal-devel/2004-12/msg00419.html

I think Drupal may have wiki-syntax filter applicable to all node types, but must have separate wiki-core for handling 'wiki'-type nodes, indexing them and make wiki-related stuff like page index, backlinking, support hooks for plugins ("macros", etc.), administration and so on (exclude versions support). Waterwiki slowly (may be very slowly :) flow this way.

--
Axel

veridicus’s picture

veridicus commented

I've upgraded the wiki.module to 4.5 and fixed some bugs. But I just have to fix links and then I'll update CVS. Afterwards, if you install it you'll see the new list of instructions on syntax.

In another day or two I should have it in CVS. Then I'd appreciate postings of feature requests/issues/patches. I'll then flag it for 4.5 after some testing.

The original contributor of the wiki module dropped it long ago and I'll try to take up most of the slack. Hopefully the waterwiki developers can leverage what we have here, like parsing of the node content.
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jasonwhat’s picture

jasonwhat commented

Any ideas what happened to the "dwiki" module? It was only commited 4 weeks ago so I can't imagine it is dead, but haven't seen anything new from there either?

I'm not sure the wmfilter does what is needed on a drupal site, but is great if you need to integrate with a mediawiki. Is it useful as an intrasite filter at all?

veridicus’s picture

veridicus commented

The dwiki developer implemented almost the exact same thing as wiki.module, so I have no idea why he didn't just upgrade it. wiki.module is over a year old. dwiki is duplicated effort. The only difference is WikiWords for links and some sort of caching of them. I have no idea why those features weren't simply added to wiki.

All I can say is I needed wiki.module to be in 4.5. No one else has a wiki filter for 4.5 so I did it myself. :)
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carl ditzler’s picture

carl ditzler commented

Chris of ninjafish put together a wiki module and rather than serving as a wiki filter (which it is not), the module adds a wiki node type and offers a page with links to wiki nodes. An example includes an edit this wiki node link.

This module with a wiki filter essentially provides a wiki embedded within Drupal, really what I have been looking for. Unfortunately, for me, this module does not work with Drupal 4.5.2.

This functionality (a wiki node) has been previously discussed.

jasonwhat’s picture

jasonwhat commented

This is just what I'm looking for. If it is combined with wiki filter than it would be perfect. Does Chris still develop on here? Could we get him to update that. Combined with the wikifilter, you'd have a real wiki running on drupal.

carl ditzler’s picture

carl ditzler commented

Modified the wiki module from veridicus: renamed the module to wikifilter.module and renamed wiki_help to wikifilter_help.
Added wikifilter.module.
Added Chris' wiki module, wiki.module.

By the way, it sounds smart (to me at least) to have separate modules for a wiki filter, someone may prefer a different type of wiki formatting (i.e., MediaWiki v. dokuwiki v. TikiWiki), and wiki node.

Actually Chris' Wiki (Node) module works, except you'll receive an error after posting (after the error message; the posting will be there and you'll find /wiki for your site). The error:

Fatal error: Call to undefined function: path_set_alias() in /home/public_html/modules/wiki.module on line 104
104:
path_set_alias($path,$new_alias,$pid);
Undefined? path_set_alias($path = NULL, $alias = NULL, $pid = NULL)

ezheidtmann’s picture

ezheidtmann commented

I'm jumping in the middle here, so forgive me if I missed something.

It seems you need to enable the path module to avoid that error.

carl ditzler’s picture

carl ditzler commented

clydefrog thank you very much.

Added to top of wiki.module before function wiki_help($section)

require 'modules/path.module';

Chris' wiki module now works with 4.5.2.

jasonwhat’s picture

jasonwhat commented

Fatal error: Cannot redeclare path_help() (previously declared in /home/woorg/public_html/modules/path.module:12) in /home/woorg/public_html/modules/path.module on line 12

I got that once I added your line above. Without your line it works, exept I can't edit contet because it says path is invalid. Could you attach the full version of your wiki.module?

carl ditzler’s picture

carl ditzler commented

Try:
require_once 'modules/path.module';
instead of
require 'modules/path.module';
sorry

If that doesn't help and you don't receive an error without the additional of a require line, what happens when you go to your site /wiki ? /wiki defaults to show the 10 most recent wiki node entries. You are running Drupal 4.5.2?

jasonwhat’s picture

jasonwhat commented

which I believe is based on 4.5.1 right now. putting in the code you just mentioned keeps it from having a fatal error. I can create wikis no problem. The problem is when I edit them. Then I'm told the path is invalid and get stuck. The name of the node and thus the path is, "Nonprofit and Missions Wiki" so that may be the problem. Maybe there can't be spaces?

UPDATE: Yep, the path wouldn't work. The module should use _ for multi-word titles instead of %20. So Nonprofit_and_Missions

carl ditzler’s picture

carl ditzler commented

Are you using/have enabled mod_rewrite?

jasonwhat’s picture

jasonwhat commented

I have mod-rewrite.

carl ditzler’s picture

carl ditzler commented

I looked through any other changes I may have made to the wiki node module (by Chris) for it to work, and found none. I wonder what changes were made to the path module, up to Drupal 4.5.2.
Sorry, I don't know how I can help.

veridicus’s picture

veridicus commented

I'm glad the filter I updated works for this other module. There's yet another group working on a framework they call waterwiki (see the CVS sandbox under axel). What we really need is one project for a wiki framework. At a bare minimum it would provide only a filter (a few to choose from). At a maximum it would give drupal all wiki functionality.

As I've pleaded on the drupal-devel mailing list and forums, others who want to provide wiki support as a drupal contribution project should contact me. I do no want to see a 4th wiki project here. Build a framework, put it together with my filter module, and let's have one wiki project for drupal.

I have no interest in a full wiki framework, but I understand many others do, and for good reasons. So provide the framework and we'll merge it with the module that I've adopted.
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carl ditzler’s picture

carl ditzler commented

This module is seamless with veridicus' fine wiki module. Hopefully there will be collaboration among the various wiki modules.

Jumping to wiki pages, and creating pages, works using brackets '[' and ']' within a posting, like adding text such as 'CreateThisNewPage'. I am curious if there would be a way to include backlinks on a wiki page, or some type of scheme for breadcrumbs for wikis.

I am confused if this suggestion relates to the wiki module by veridicus or the wiki module by chris. Or both. This demonstrates veridicus' point... death of wikis? No, wikis are multiplying.

jasonwhat’s picture

jasonwhat commented

What makes a page a "wiki" page in drupal though? From what I can tell there isn't really such thing as a wiki page, but a page with an easy to reference name in the path. While this is still useful, it doesn't help in creating a true wiki, where users can create chapters and organize content. books.module isn't good for this either because books is always presenting a user with a dropdown list of every single book page, which grows quickly in a wiki.

UPDATE: I spoke to sson. Looks like the new autopath module can help make all of drupal more easily wiki-like with the autopath.module.

Details

Whenever any user of an autopath-enabled site submits a new node
which has a title but no explicit path alias, autopath creates an
alias from the title as follows:

o The title is lower-cased
o Apostrophes are stripped
o Any sequence of one or more non-alphanumeric characters is replaced
by an underscore.
o If the resulting alias duplicates an existing one, the string
"_" is appended where is the smallest non-negative
integer which results in a unique alias.

the only problem with this is it makes the paths for blocks a real pain as it renders wildcards useless.

veridicus’s picture

veridicus commented

There is no wiki functionality per-se in the core of Drupal. And there probably won't be, simply because Drupal is its own kind of CMS and not another wiki implementation.

There are some working to add all wiki functionality to drupal via contributed modules. But these efforts are spread among different groups and none of them are done, so we can't try them all out and pick the best. If you want to be part of that wiki discussion you'll have to wait until they speak up or hunt them down yourself.

One big problem is there is no real wiki "standard." Every implementation I've found on the web is different in some fundamental ways, so each wiki module for drupal will work differently also. Right now the only working (production-ready) wiki functionality is filters.

Remember, drupal's goal is not to create a complete wiki. It's to create the best CMS possible, which may or may not overlap wiki functionality.
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carl ditzler’s picture

carl ditzler commented

Wiki features are diverse among the offerings, as this table shows, and this one, and this article.

I looked at several definitions of wiki and liked this one. Wikis are good at sifting and synthesizing knowledge from data. This is an ongoing and collaborative process, undertaken by many people, contributing to and editing the data flow in an attempt to derive meaning from it.

I think Wikis are unique primarily because they are a framework for content (on a page) constantly changing. A wiki may be useful for a todo list, writing a collaborative book, or project management.

Is the book module an attempt to become a wiki module?

carl ditzler’s picture

carl ditzler commented

The Wiki filter module defaults to creating new pages via '[]' with the story node on line 267. Modified 267 by changing story to wiki:
return l($linktext, "node/add/wiki", array(), "edit[title]=$enc_word");

... if you are interested in having pages added with the wiki node.

jasonwhat’s picture

jasonwhat commented

do you need a wiki node type created somehow? Or will this accomplish that somehow?

carl ditzler’s picture

carl ditzler commented

The variety of wiki modules is confusing.

The wiki module by veridicus is a filter. Wiki syntax may be included with article and comment input boxes.

The wiki module by Chris creates wiki nodes. Coupled with veridicus' wiki filter, wiki nodes offer pages in a wiki style, other than story or book nodes. You can see an example of a wiki node on Chris' site. The differences between a wiki and story node are slight.

I was able to get Chris' wiki module working by doing what I mentioned above, adding a required statement. To work with veridicus' wiki module and allow the wiki mode to have wiki formating, I renamed one of the modules and a help section.

I found that when creating a new page with [] in a wiki filter (and by the way, I needed to turn off html filtering with wiki filtering) the filter by veridicus would break links between the wiki node pages. This is because the filter allowed users to create a new story node, not a wiki node.

jasonwhat’s picture

jasonwhat commented

Instead of changing the current wiki.module to wikifilter, you can just use the wmfilter.module. This module lets you enter prefixes and paths that will allow you to link to virtually any wiki. Including one local to your site.

So far in testing I've had some problems when trying to edit and am getting invalid path error which won't let me edit the node. I also see nowhere to configure the wiki. Chris's instructions say you can set a default page that appears whenever someone enters http://example.com/wiki , but I see nowhere to set this. Also, some type of navigational block akin to that in book module would be nice. I'm very excited about this module.

veridicus’s picture

veridicus commented

"The differences between a wiki and story node are slight." Why the need for a separate wiki node type? What does it provide that current nodes like story and book don't?

The reason I ask is I've never been convinced a separate node type is ever needed. I've looked at other code for creating wiki node types and find no difference to a story node at all.

If the node content (filter output) of the wiki.module should be changed, submit a feature request and I'll consider it. The formatting rules aren't set in stone. I'm perfectly happy to change how links are created to meet everyone's needs.
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jasonwhat’s picture

jasonwhat commented

The dwiki module lets you choose in settings which type of node you want wikis to be. For organizational purposes a separate wiki node type could be good. For example, I truly want the wiki a separate part of my site, that means it has its own taxonomy structure that is only shown to someone where they are creating a wiki node type. If I use story module, that means I have my regular taxonomy assoicated with stories, plus the wiki one. Users may always be adding content to the wiki that they shouldn't be, and how does story know if their entry is a wiki, meaning a path should be generated, or non-wiki page, meaning no path should be auto-generated.

veridicus’s picture

veridicus commented

First, the wiki filter can be applied to any node types you select in the "input formats" settings. If you don't want story to support wiki then don't select it.

If you want the feature of a special section of the site for special nodes you should look into other modules. This isn't specific to wiki. It would be a more general request that no wiki module should be solving by itself.

"how does story know if their entry is a wiki, meaning a path should be generated, or non-wiki page, meaning no path should be auto-generated." Paths should never be auto-generated for non-existing nodes. If I put in a link to [MyNewPage] and that page doesn't already exist then the wiki filter will generate a link to the form for adding a node. That destination node is never a path until it's created. You can't go to /title/MyNewPage until you actually create it. If a module were to override that functionality by creating a node at the point of another node referencing it, basic premises behind Drupal's functionality would be broken. For starters you'd have a node missing required body text and any required taxonomies, which would not be allowed.

All you're asking for is the ability to created your own node type and set it to only allow the wiki filter. Unfortunately to create a new node type yourself you either have to use flexinode or write a module. Wikis should not be their own node type because node types refer to the type of a page, not it's authoring method. Stories are stories, blogs are blogs, but wiki pages can be stories, blogs, dictionary entries, or any other type of page. I won't write any module that breaks the structural arrangements of Drupal.
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jasonwhat’s picture

jasonwhat commented

that isn't what I'm asking at all. You are using semantics to ignore the whole arguemnt. You are just using drupal-speak now, "stories are stories?" A story can be anything, a blog can be anything, it could be a movie review, or a news story or an outline. The wiki filter does not have to be reserved for wiki's. But for many sites having a wiki node type could be valuable. A wiki node type would be like a book, but more extstensive in it's ability to organize content into chapters and sub-headings, etc. Obviously real wikis are more than a type of filter, to have real wikis in drupal it will have to go beyond a filter. To have wiki syntax available it won't.

carl ditzler’s picture

carl ditzler commented

Do you generally see a difference between a wiki and a blog?
Or a story node and a book node?

eaton’s picture

eaton commented

I'll give an example. On my site, http://www.havana-mod.com, friends and I are compiling the documentation for a fictional RPG world. We're using blogs, message boards, and so on. We've also set up a separate node type called 'entry' that serves as an entry in the site's dedicated 'encyclopedia,' documenting what is canon in the theme.

I'm using a modified version of the wiki filter that only matches 'encyclopedia' nodes when it searches for links, and always creates new nodes as encyclopedias when a nonexistant destination is linked to.

I have the wiki filter applied to all node types on the site, because I want any content -- blog entries, news, etc -- to be able to reference sections in the theme documentation.

Setting up a dedicated Wiki-formatted node type would defeat the purpose of the site. Ideally, all the HTML and layout formatting would be stripped out of the wiki filter, leaving us with a nice 'WikiLinks' filter. But that's another issue entirely.

--
Eaton — Partner at Autogram

veridicus’s picture

veridicus commented

Interesting. "always creates new nodes as encyclopedias when a nonexistant destination is linked to." I was asked to do the same in the wiki.module. But how are you filling in required fields when all you know is the title? For example, what would you do if you had a required vocabulary (taxonomy) for every encyclopedia node?

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jasonwhat’s picture

jasonwhat commented

I also am talking about the ability to use the wikifilter anywhere. The filter should be wherever one chooses. But your example of having specific node type called "entry" is what I'm talking about. My site would get way to confusing if I had users using blogs within the wiki, of course they can reference the wiki from their blog and still use wiki syntax, but their blog will not be part of the wiki. If the book module had more in depth permissions this would not be an issue, but it doesn't. So for my purposes I will use a node type and taxonomy dedicated to wiki's, but using the wmfilter, people could reference the wiki wiki from anywhere and create links to non-existent pages.

I'm wondering why doesn't the wiki filter go into the wmfilter module which already has features to allow admin to setup filters for both onsite and offsite wiki's?

veridicus’s picture

veridicus commented

"I'm wondering why doesn't the wiki filter go into the wmfilter module"

wmfilter adds a new customizable link format to any input format. Wiki.module has a complete formatting syntax which must work alone or with only additional link formatting. If anything wmfilter should have added their functionality to wiki.module because it's been around for about a year and people have been using it. wmfilter is less than a month old and only affects linking.

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veridicus’s picture

veridicus commented

Here's the definition of a wiki by the creator himself:

Wiki is a piece of server software that allows users to freely create and edit Web page content using any Web browser. Wiki supports hyperlinks and has a simple text syntax for creating new pages and crosslinks between internal pages on the fly.

Wiki is unusual among group communication mechanisms in that it allows the organization of contributions to be edited in addition to the content itself.

And according to Wikipedia (the world's largest wiki):

A Wiki or wiki (pronounced "wicky", "weekee", or "veekee"; see pronunciation section below) is a website (or other hypertext documents collection) allowing users to add content, as on an Internet forum, but also allows anyone to edit the content. "Wiki" also refers to the collaborative software used to create such a website (see Wiki software).

In no way is the definition of a wiki tied to the type of content. Hence a wiki can be a blog, book, article, story, whatever (in general terms, not drupal-speak). But drupal's node types are there to imply a type of content and provide features specific to that kind of content. The features that most people think of when they hear "wiki" should be applicable to any node types the administrators desire, which is why I updated this wiki filter. Most features common to wikis are already in Drupal. Those that aren't can be added, but shouldn't have to be specific to a wiki node type.
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MattisManzel’s picture

MattisManzel commented

On a log you see what the owner is about

On a wiki you see what the community is about.

kvarnelis’s picture

kvarnelis commented

weblogs can be run by communities, wikis can be run by individuals.

the more pertinent division is:

wikis are primarily spatially ordered (click through links as you want)

weblogs are primarily temporally ordered (browse through text as you scroll it)

wikis lend themselves to non-hierarchical reading and it is easier manage large amounts of information with them than with blogs.

tag-1’s picture

tag-1 commented

Right now the Rails folks put everything in a Wiki, which is Hawaiian for "can't find shit." -- Zed

Note: The opinion above is one I share but does not represent the opinion of Drupal Incorporated. See "Difference of Opinions" for details. No purchase necessary.

MattisManzel’s picture

MattisManzel commented

Hi. My first Drupal contribution. I just registered and didn't really look around yet. I'm quite busy with wiki. I apprechiate that Drupal (almost) seems to be one already.

Please note that the term wiki-node (for clean linking) and WikiNode in CamelCase is already widely used in wikilandia. http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=wikinode&btnG=Google-Suche&meta=

Mattis Manzel

http://www.emacswiki.org/cw/MattisManzel