By zoon_unit on
I'd like to start a general survey as to the development environment you guys use to develop in Drupal.
1) Do you develop and make changes directly to your live site?
2) Or do you develop on a local machine and FTP the changes?
3) Do you have a local development server specially set up for Drupal?
4) Do you use Linux or Windows? LAMP or WAMP?
5) Do you make all PHP and CSS changes manually, or do you use an editor like Dreamweaver?
6) If Linux, what editor do you use?
Any hints or advice on a good, efficient workflow would be greatly appreciated!
Comments
I'll start this survey off
I'm a Windows person, but I wanted to learn Linux because my site will be hosted by a Linux based ISP. So I set up an Ubuntu LAMP server for development. It's attached to my local home network.
I've done most template changes directly on the Linux server, but there seems to be a dearth of good, powerful Linux wysiwyg editors out there. I then started saving "static" pages to my Windows machine and copying CSS files over, then editing my template CSS using Frontpage. (yuck!) It DOES work, but there's a lot of copying back and forth, and hence, confusion.
I simply find manual CSS editing far too confusing and frustrating. Every theme designer has a different way to approach their theme design, so trying to alter an existing theme requires learning each designer's approach and philosophy. Trying to track cascading styles through the tree is next to impossible. To make matters worse, so much of the base theming platform is embedded in the PHP templates, requiring one to change and coordinate both CSS and PHP simultaneously.
This is a real challenge for newbies like me. I'm having to learn MySQL, PHP, Linux, Apache configs, while also tweaking my html and CSS skills, not to mention the structural philosophy of each theme designer. My brain is spilling over!!!
I am now experimenting with Dreamweaver, and it's a joy. I can save a static version of my web page, attach the style sheets and edit all in wysiwyg comfort. I've managed to set up Samba on my Linux server, and now I can edit CSS and PHP files directly on the server using Dreamweaver.
I'm beginning to believe that the best environment for Windows users is a WAMP install on a windows machine with Dreamweaver as the main editor.
Supposedly, you can edit dynamic web pages directly in Dreamweaver, but I haven't figured out how to do that quite yet.
FINALLY, one BIG request. I think some Drupal software gurus need to create a PHP based theme designer similar to Sam Raheb's excel based designer. That way, themes could be designed and generated directly from the Drupal admin interface. Despite the relative ease of adding content inside Drupal, I've found the theming process to tedious and time consuming, and this hits the beginner like a ton of bricks.
I believe this has a lot to do with Drupal's reputation as being unfriendly for beginners.
Some answers
No - at least for file changes. Although changes to the database are made on the live site.
Changes are uploaded via a shell script that checks out the specified branch from subversion (a source control system like CVS), then deletes all the stuff that doesn't need to be uploaded (eg sql scripts, readmes, translations etc), then uses rsync over ssh to upload the changed files.
Yep, running Debian Sarge. It has various virtual hosts for each developer and designer to check out different code branches and work on them independently. We also have scripts to synchronise each of these virtual hosts with the latest data from the production server.
I use a Linux desktop (Debian), but the others use either Windows or Mac OS. We do have samba installed on the development server for editing access to the virtual host directories.
The development server is Debian running the standard Debian versions of Apache 2.0, PHP 4, and MySQL 4.1.
I'm at a loss to envision manual changes without an editor - is that using magnets or something ;)
But seriously though, I use either Kate (from KDE) over fish (a KDE ssh based file share protocol), or mostly I just ssh into the dev server and edit with vim and command line subversion interface.
Our Windows based designer used JEdit over samba and TortoiseSVN to handle the source control.
Either Kate, vim/vi or JEdit. I tried Quanta for a while some time back. It looks promising.
Liberal use of scripts and source control. But in saying that, it would probably be too much for the average solitary Drupal webmaster. At this stage though, you wouldd be better off spending that time on learning the stuff you're already doing (eg Apache, file permissions, PHP, CSS etc) rather than trying to automate too much yet. The scripting and source control becomes indispensible once you have more than two developers/designers.
My advice for new Drupal themers: don't start your theme based on one of the complex good looking ones. Start with a bare bones clean basic theme. With CSS it is far easier to add style than it is to take it away or drastically alter it.
--
Anton
New to Drupal? | Forum posting tips | Troubleshooting FAQ
Example Knowledge Base built using Drupal
Great answers
Styro,
Thanks for the comprehensive reply. It's apparent to me that Linux developers live in a quite different world from mine. :-) Although that's changing.
hehe, on your "manual editing." Actually I scratch my code directly into the magnetic HD platters. :-)
I guess I should have said "wysiwyg editors." My Dreamweaver experiment is going nicely, now that I've enabled Samba. It's very nice to "point" to a graphic element on a rendered page, and then see the entire style cascade without scrolling up and down and back and forth through numerous style sheets.
On the other hand, I'm learning to appreciate the speed and elegance of simple editors too, but I'll need to be more fluent to use them effectively.
I took your advice on Themes, developing mine from bluemarine, and I'm glad I did! So far, I'm following things much better.
Thanks again.
It's apparent to me that
You'll be fine. I was originally a civil engineer and CAD operator, then taught myself to be a Windows MCSE type, then taught myself to be a unix sysadmin, and have now mostly taught myself to be a web developer. It definitely wasn't in the blood so to speak. So with a little commitment and interest in the topic (which it sounds like you have) it's all doable for the self taught.
Just be patient, there are no magic bullets - it's an ongoing learning process and little bits of seemingly unrelated knowledge somehow end up clicking together and suddenly making sense. Keeping your expectations under control while you tackle the basic stuff is important. If you jump in too deep too early it will lead to lots of frustration. And try to focus on looking for different (but easier) ways to solve a problem rather than stubbornly fighting to solve it the way you originally wanted to solve it.
--
Anton
New to Drupal? | Forum posting tips | Troubleshooting FAQ
Example Knowledge Base built using Drupal
What not to do :)
1) Do you develop and make changes directly to your live site?
Yep, and I crash it a lot. Good thing it's pretty low traffic.
2) Or do you develop on a local machine and FTP the changes?
No, but I should.
3) Do you have a local development server specially set up for Drupal?
Nope. That's on my to do list.
4) Do you use Linux or Windows? LAMP or WAMP?
Hosted Linux. Windows on my PC.
5) Do you make all PHP and CSS changes manually, or do you use an editor like Dreamweaver?
I use notepad2 for the PHP and Topstyle Lite for the CSS. I've got them set as the default for those extensions so all I have to do is open my theme dir over FTP, double click the file to edit, change it, save it, and say yes when the FTP asks to upload it. Works pretty good as long as you don't mind occasionally hosing your site. :)
6) If Linux, what editor do you use?
Linux editors scare me...
Michelle
all right
Keep in mind, despite my community involvement I am primarily a hobbyist with this web stuff. I do IT Support for a living so the general processes are familier to me. Besides, my friends would be annoyed were their sites to go down ...
1) Do you develop and make changes directly to your live site?
Rarely make unknown/unfamilier changes. If I haven't tried them on one of my test sites, then I don't do them on my production sites. I will play with the theme's css on my live site but generally do so with a alternate user assigned the theme so it doesn't impact visitors. To much work if the site blows up and backup/restore to a test site is so easy... (and if it's not you should spend a week practising, taking notes and making it easy)
2) Or do you develop on a local machine and FTP the changes?
Mainly on a test site and then transfer the files to the production site. I would strongly advise people to not use FTP if at all posible and use SSH and SCP or the GUI tools that use SCP for it's file transfer mechanism.
3) Do you have a local development server specially set up for Drupal?
I have local XAMMP setup on my desktop, copy on a flashdrive in case I want to show someone something and test sites on my production server using seperate databases and DNS names. I also have VMWare Server installed with a server image for playing with a very different configuration.
4) Do you use Linux or Windows? LAMP or WAMP?
Windows OS. IIS6 until recently when I switched to Apache. I couldn't get the various mod_rewrite alternatives to work satisfactorily for my needs. A friend uses IIS for his site.
5) Do you make all PHP and CSS changes manually, or do you use an editor like Dreamweaver?
Text editor. For a long time, Crimson Editor, then I tried Notepad2 and Notepad++
6) If Linux, what editor do you use?
---
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
my setup
1) Do you develop and make changes directly to your live site?
minor theme stuff I may do directly to the site - everything else I try on my test sites first
2) Or do you develop on a local machine and FTP the changes?
Mostly FTP to a develoment server. Although I have just setup a test installation on XAMPP on my laptop and will probably switch to that in the future.
There are some(email) components that are unique to the server though.
3) Do you have a local development server specially set up for Drupal?
Yes - see above.
4) Do you use Linux or Windows? LAMP or WAMP?
XAMPP on my laptop, Linux everywhere else
5) Do you make all PHP and CSS changes manually, or do you use an editor like Dreamweaver?
PSPad for most stuff (built in FTP client, great for editing directly on the test server or my laptop)
PHPEclipse for more indepth stuff (nice integration with database, subversion, etc)
Although I keep hearing about Dreamweaver, I don't have time to try out something that I probably will not be able to afford)
6) If Linux, what editor do you use?
n/a
My setup, usefulness may vary
1) Do you develop and make changes directly to your live site?
All the time, then it breaks, and my users are hosed, and i get yelled at by angry bosses/users/wife's-who-haven't-seen-me-in-days, and i strongly don't recommend it unless something is actually burning. Though once its burning...
2) Or do you develop on a local machine and FTP the changes?
Use SFTP, if you have an ssh shell you can use that instead of ftp, and its vastly more secure. winSCP is a tool that i use to do that, and it even lets you right click, open with your favorite editor, screw around, and when you hit "save" it automatically syncs with the remote copy... very very handy if you are a windows victim... User!, user, i meant user :)
3) Do you have a local development server specially set up for Drupal?
Aaah, here's my one bit of usefullness to add. I went and downloaded the free VMware player off the vmware site, and then registered (not bought, just gave them permission to know that i use their software) and then downloaded an ubuntu server 7.10 virtual machine, setup to do bridged networking. You could probably find the same virtual machine on bittorrent, and im pretty sure that since ubuntu is free, downloading it is a legitimate, legal thing to do, even though it is bittorrent. If you have alergies to closed source (and i don't blame you for that) you can get the same effect from virtualbox i have no doubts, but i haven't done it with that myself.
Anyway, so now you have a virtual machine, on your machine, and you can install your entire setup on the thing, take a snapshot, screw it up really bad, and revert to the snap shot.... oooohoohooooh so handy. now you can try your hand at linux commands all day, and never hurt thyself, you can't blow up a virtual machine too bad to revert, at least i haven't yet. A word of warning, i have seen some exploits available to people running VM's so don't do anything too wacky, like browsing for stuff from the VM or anything, thats probably asking for trouble.
4) Do you use Linux or Windows? LAMP or WAMP?
See above. LAMP, or, whatever is closest to my hosting environment whenever possible. a 256mb lamp with 8gb virtual drive is going to run like mad for a developer's purposes, and if it doesn't, your just going to screw up your hosting provider when you upload your page anyway.
5) Do you make all PHP and CSS changes manually, or do you use an editor like Dreamweaver?
I don't use overly automated editors, because i just barely understand whats happening most days anyway, so i try not to add a layer of confusion to it. Once i get a handle on whats happening beneath, and i think it will speed me up to drag and drop, then i switch over, but its important to be able to ascertain why something went awry, and it helps to beat the code into your brain. But if a tool works for you, use it.
6) If Linux, what editor do you use?
I tend to rotate editors. vim, emacs, SciTE, gedit, kwrite, quanta, nedit and a few others. I just tend to use the one that has cost me the least sleep recently. Currently, thats kwrite and textpad, and vim when i have to use an ssh session, but i have no doubt that will change.
Pardon any spelling/grammar errors, im writing this with two kids pounding at my keyboard.
kids
Doesn't everyone write with kids/babies "helping"?
Ha. Sometimes it is good to know I'm not the only one doing family and webstuff all within the same few hours!
Cathy Theys
YesTrainingAndEducation.com
Environments
1) Do you develop and make changes directly to your live site?
No, I develop and test off site and do not recommend making untested changes to your live site.
2) Or do you develop on a local machine and FTP the changes?
I develop/test on a local machine and sftp the changes to my live site after I have backed it up.
3) Do you have a local development server specially set up for Drupal?
No, I use my regular desktop system, although I manually start XAMPP when I want to work on the site.
4) Do you use Linux or Windows? LAMP or WAMP?
I use Linux Ubuntu 7.10 with XAMPP from www.apachefriends.org (They offer a Windows, Linux and Mac versions).
5) Do you make all PHP and CSS changes manually, or do you use an editor like Dreamweaver?
Bluefish editor to update php and CSS, but just as likely to use a standard text editor.
6) If Linux, what editor do you use?
Bluefish, vim, or gedit
Any hints or advice on a good, efficient workflow would be greatly appreciated!
Don't make changes directly to your production site that haven't been tested on your development site.
Before making any change on development or production make sure you have a good backup, just in case.
Read the manual, Read the pending issues, and the Read problem reports prior to installing a new module.
Install the Devel module on your development site and don't install Devel on your production site.
Test, Test and ReTest prior to taking anything from development to production.
If you change the code in the core or a module keep track of exactly what changes you have made so they can be redone/undone.
HTHs
Finchair
My two cents
1) Do you develop and make changes directly to your live site?
No. I either have test sites set up on the sites server (subdomained or additional domains that I clone the site onto). Occassionally if needed I set up a test site on my local environment - see below.
2) Or do you develop on a local machine and FTP the changes?
Sometimes - I have MAMP on OSX running on my local network. I use a variety of ways of uploading files, either through a shell (I might wget files from the test site to live site etc), Eclipse (subclipse with SVN) FTP or SFTP. With Dreamweaver I can use Webdav also or just edit the files directly on my remote server (rarely do this though). Also use Navicat for database work or phpmyadmin or shell.
Most of the time I like to have a test site running on the actual live server environment - that is my preferred way of working.
3) Do you have a local development server specially set up for Drupal?
Not specially for Drupal, but it does run PHP5 and MySQL5.
4) Do you use Linux or Windows? LAMP or WAMP?
Linux, Win, OSX and MAMP & XAMPP - so the whole shebang - all on different boxes and networked.
5) Do you make all PHP and CSS changes manually, or do you use an editor like Dreamweaver?
I use Dreamweaver a lot, however I write all the CSS by hand within DW - I am just used to this as I have been using DW for many years. I use Webdevelopers toolbar and Advark addons for Firefox to write/troubleshoot much of the CSS and then copy paste into the style sheet. Also use CSSVista to get the same effect for IE7 - this a huge time saver.
One thing I like about DW is the workflow, its so easy to navigate all the sites files, open one, make a small change then "Ctrl S, Ctrl U" and its on the server - very quick. It also support secure FTP which is important for many clients.
I find that on a normal day I might be working on up to 4 or 5 different sites/projects/tasks and I havent found another app that has a workflow that can match DW.
PHP changes are mostly done in Dreamweaver also although I don't really think this is ideal - in the past when I worked more on OSX I used Textmate or BBEdit.
Pimp your Drupal 8 Toolbar - make it badass.
Adaptivetheme - theming system for people who don't code.
FYI
This post you guys are responding to is nearly 1.5 years old...
Michelle
--------------------------------------
See my Drupal articles and tutorials or come check out life in the Coulee Region.
And that makes it less
And that makes it less relevant or useful to new users because...?
Pimp your Drupal 8 Toolbar - make it badass.
Adaptivetheme - theming system for people who don't code.
...
What do new users have to do with what I said? I said the post was old. I didn't say it was irelevant or useless. Just that you're answering a question that someone asked 1.5 years ago who may not even be around anymore.
Michelle
--------------------------------------
See my Drupal articles and tutorials or come check out life in the Coulee Region.
Thats your assumption, your
Thats your assumption, your entitled to it, just can't see what our posts have to do with you AT ALL. FYI to you, the posts does not state replies are time limited and does state hes looking to start a general survey (thus useful to more than just one user...) wouldnt you agree?
Pimp your Drupal 8 Toolbar - make it badass.
Adaptivetheme - theming system for people who don't code.
...
There have been significant changes in Drupal, PHP, and the various tools available in the last year and a half. It would have been more interesting to create a new topic post and solicit information based on more current standards and tools.
Her post has to do with you an attempt to give you information and help. Your reply is as interesting as it is challenging.
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
Huh?
My "assumption" was that this post is old and that people might not realize that it was an ancient post that got bumped up. I happened to notice since I remembered this post from the first go 'round and thought I'd mention it just for information. That is, by the way, what FYI means. Since you weren't the one that bumped it up, what makes you _assume_ I was even talking to you?
If people want to post on it, fine. I never said it wasn't allowed. I was just offering a bit of information that people may not have noticed. So your attitude is completely uncalled for.
Michelle
--------------------------------------
See my Drupal articles and tutorials or come check out life in the Coulee Region.
Sorry, but I meant your
Sorry, but I meant your assumption that the user may not be around anymore. I actually asked a question, which Steven above actually offered an answer to, whereas, for some reason you have taken an offence to it and jumped all over me. Sorry, but I don't have an attitude at all, I had a question. Perhaps it came out / sounded wrong - sorry, I've been speaking Swedish for the last 3 years and my English suffers something terrible (and is hardly what I would call my first language anyway).
Pimp your Drupal 8 Toolbar - make it badass.
Adaptivetheme - theming system for people who don't code.
Ok
Well, maybe it was a language thing. Your first post to me came across very sarcastic and your second sounded like you were jumping on me for not minding my own business. Since I just posted to help out, I felt very attacked and responded in turn. Let's just drop it and let you guys get on with your survey taking.
Michelle
--------------------------------------
See my Drupal articles and tutorials or come check out life in the Coulee Region.
Regarding your comment...
I found this post helpful but you are absolutely correct - a post thats 1.5 years old needs a makeover.
updating the post
I found this really helpful even now. Maybe someone, not on their iPhone, with cut and paste could start a new thread and post a link to the new thread from here...
that someone could be me if I remember!
Cathy Theys
YesTrainingAndEducation.com
Actually, I'm still here
And I think it's still relevant. :-)
1) Do you develop and make
1) Do you develop and make changes directly to your live site? No - that would be risky...
2) Or do you develop on a local machine and FTP the changes? No - I use svn
3) Do you have a local development server specially set up for Drupal? Yes - this is definitely the way to go.
4) Do you use Linux or Windows? LAMP or WAMP? Both, but normally WAMP for DEV and LAMP for prod
5) Do you make all PHP and CSS changes manually, or do you use an editor like Dreamweaver? I use Aptana Studio
6) If Linux, what editor do you use? Aptana Studio runs on Windoze and Linux
beren erchamion
http://tarnaeluin.wordpress.com/
on Windows XP
1) Do you develop and make changes directly to your live site?
- Only CSS edits, save changes via FTP directly with PSPad.
2) Or do you develop on a local machine and FTP the changes?
3) Do you have a local development server specially set up for Drupal?
4) Do you use Linux or Windows? LAMP or WAMP?
- site development starts on local machine running WAMPServer.
5) Do you make all PHP and CSS changes manually, or do you use an editor like Dreamweaver?
- I use PSPad, a very capable free text/code-editor, recommended.
edit: I will move to linux desktop, partly also because using the same system as servers seems to offer some advantages, among them being familiar with the system.
...
1) Do you develop and make changes directly to your live site? --> No
2) Or do you develop on a local machine and FTP the changes? --> XAMPP locally, then FTP
3) Do you have a local development server specially set up for Drupal? --> XAMPP
4) Do you use Linux or Windows? LAMP or WAMP? --> XAMPP for windows locally, Linux as webhost
5) Do you make all PHP and CSS changes manually --> Yes, Note Tab, sometimes PSPad
6) If Linux, what editor do you use? --> not applicable
[Edit : PS : I missed to note that it was an old post, saw after I answered]
1) Do you develop and make
1) Do you develop and make changes directly to your live site?
2) Or do you develop on a local machine and FTP the changes?
3) Do you have a local development server specially set up for Drupal?
4) Do you use Linux or Windows? LAMP or WAMP?
5) Do you make all PHP and CSS changes manually, or do you use an editor like Dreamweaver?
6) If Linux, what editor do you use?
Drupal Tools...
Good to see this thread is still active...
1) Do you develop and make changes directly to your live site?
No,
2) Or do you develop on a local machine and FTP the changes?
Yes -- FTP from Aptana
3) Do you have a local development server specially set up for Drupal?
Yes
4) Do you use Linux or Windows? LAMP or WAMP?
Windows/XAMPP -> Linux
5) Do you make all PHP and CSS changes manually, or do you use an editor like Dreamweaver?
Hand code using Aptana
6) If Linux, what editor do you use?
Aptana
Old topic, I know, but I lve surveys!
1) Do you develop and make changes directly to your live site?
Nope
2) Or do you develop on a local machine and FTP the changes?
Yeah
3) Do you have a local development server specially set up for Drupal?
Yup
4) Do you use Linux or Windows? LAMP or WAMP?
Linux with both; I use and old version of XAMP for developing sites that require PHP 5.2 branches.
5) Do you make all PHP and CSS changes manually, or do you use an editor like Dreamweaver?
I write it manually.
6) If Linux, what editor do you use?
Vim. Once you learn how to use it efficiently, there's nothing better. Xmonad + Vim is heaven compared to what I used a few years ago (Windows XP, Dreamweaver, and Notepad+).
I found this info useful
I haven't found a good answer to updating production servers from development servers with drupal...the database updates are complex, I've been searching for a useful module or workflow for awhile but haven't found one. This thread was useful...at the very least it told me that most people settle for updating the live server as well.
1) Do you develop and make changes directly to your live site?
Sometimes...I update themes and most modules directly, however if I'm writing my own module or my own code of any type I will test it remotely then upload. If it's just a snippet i might test it extensively using /devel/php then insert it live. I FTP the changes.
3) Do you have a local development server specially set up for Drupal?
Not specifically for Drupal, but I run drupal 5 and 6 off of it.
4) Do you use Linux or Windows? LAMP or WAMP?
Primarily XAMPP on OS X, I also have one server running WAMP but I use it less. Both work.
5) Do you make all PHP and CSS changes manually, or do you use an editor like Dreamweaver?
Manually
6) If Linux, what editor do you use?
When I work off my one Linux machine i use Quanta+