hello and thanks-
the following info might serve useful in preventing another drupal developer
from having a similar negative experience with UTBox.net (http://www.utbox.net) as i just had.
recently i accepted a contract to develop a new drupal 5.x website for this company, based in sydney, australia.
the total cost of the contract was to be $1800 USD-
with 50% to be paid after the first five days of work, when 50% of the job was done-
and the remainder after the next five days of work, when everything was completed.
note:
normally i would require either (or both) a 50% deposit-
or for development to occur on my server-
to protect my work and insure that payment would be received when the job was done.
in this case, i unfortunately waived both of those safeguards-
as the guy that hired me explained that this would be their 3rd attempt at developing a new drupal site-
and that the prior developers they had hired (and paid) had abandoned the project halfway thru.
they (UTBox.net) showed me the old dev website, which was indeed not functioning properly-
especially with respect to a sophisticated, 4-level graphical menu system they wanted-
and lots of other theme display issues.
i spent a few days building a free demo where i solved the theme problems from the old (broken) dev site-
and also produced a fully-working version of the graphical menu system.
based on the strength of my work, they offered me the contract, which i accepted.
because of their prior experiences, and because they seemed like a reputable company-
we decided to proceed as indicated above-
with all work to occur on their server, no deposit-
and payment #1 to be made after day 5, and part 1 of the job done.
we produced a detailed hit list of items that were to be done during the first 5 days of work, part 1-
and those that were to be done in part 2.
i started to do my work, and put in some very good time and effort for their behalf.
i produced a new, fully-loaded drupal 5.10 site, with modules including a few customizations-
and an original, custom theme based on their design and my own drupal theme system.
we were already ahead of schedule so i didn't kick too much-
when they started asking me to do a few of the items that were not supposed to be done yet until part 2-
during the first five days.
my contact at the company started saying something as the end of the first week of work approached-
that it would be better if he could show his boss that the website was almost "done".
then they started adding more items to the work list-
saying that they forgot to include those when we created the detailed item by item contract-
and directed me to finish some of those as part of the first 5 days in order to receive payment.
by the time day 6 of work rolled around-
there was no payment for the work completed, which by now included all of the original 50% of the job-
plus more of the work already done, supposedly for part 2.
at this time, the original contract work list was re-defined yet again (by them)-
and i was offered 25% of the 50% payment that was now past due-
with the remainder supposedly to be paid when the now bloated list was "done".
the list now indicated clearly that their intention was in fact to manipulate me into completing 100% of the job-
with them paying me as little as they thought they could get away with-
not to mention breaking the contract we had.
here is a direct quote from the boss of the person i worked with, and for 6 days straight-
with no compensation at all-
in his attempt to reconcile / explain the situation as he now saw it:
With our past contractor I made payment when requested and had a situation where the overseas contractor felt I guess that it would not be worth sticking around to finish off for the next 50% payment and we were left with something that was not workable.
Payments to overseas contractors are made in the context of our past experience; This may unfairly represent your actual work ethic and I am sorry for that; once we work through the first few lists of work and make payment we will be able to build up a higher level of trust and have an arrangement that works more suitably for you for any ongoing work or other website projects that may come up!
I note that you say you feel like we are cramming more work into the first payment; in some regards this is true, ideally I would like to release payment when for instance you have hit 80% of the work completed for the amount of 50% so that it is clearly in your interest to finish the last 20% to receive the next 50% payment.
I think you can understand our motivation there? I know this is not the most suitable arrangement for you however I think you can understand our motivations from our past experiences above.
of course this is not the contract and deal we made.
and no, i cannot understand the motivations for someone to lie and cheat and steal-
and to disregard a simple contract as if it did not exist, or as they now wanted to change it.
and this, after the fact-
and after the good work they contracted for was completed, and the website way past 50% done-
sitting right on their server.
it is sad and a little bit scary to think that they could be so open about being brazen and dishonest-
showing such disregard for my time and efforts to try to manipulate me into completing
their website in this inconsiderate and criminal manner.
did they really think they could trick me into continuing to work for them
with this disregard for me and my work-
and that i would somehow perceive this situation to be, as they stated, "clearly in my interest to finish the last 20%"-
after i had been jerked around and not even compensated for the first half?
clearly this was their intention from the start-
and the contract and deal we made was something that they did not intend to honor.
so after work stopped on day 6-
and a few days of asking and waiting to see if they would just simply make good on payment #1-
so we could proceed, and indeed finish the job, in spite of everything-
i gave up and decided to call it a day and not waste any more time and effort
producing good work for someone that neither appreciated it-
nor intended to pay for it.
i was able to successfully delete the database for the drupal install i had spent the past 6 days building-
and which represented the bulk of the 40+ hours put in by me during that time.
lucky for me they had no backup, even though i had in fact encouraged them to make a daily backup-
of both the database and codebase after each day of development, to save the ton of good, new work
that was getting done each day during that time.
but unfortunately i was not able to remove the other work that they had paid nothing for-
including the custom theme created to their design spec...
lots of quality time, effort and care went into that.
so as a courtesy to all drupal developers-
steer clear of UTBox.net unless you want to experience something similar to what i just went through:
trying to do some good work for somebody...
and help them enjoy all the power and benefits that drupal provides-
only to be cheated, manipulated and have your work appropriated by them with no compensation in return.
vincent, in buffalo
http://basicmagic.net
Comments
thanks for your info! I
thanks for your info!
I think we need a "sticky" topic (blacklist) to add each company/person who cheat..
feedback
Or an old skool ebay-style contractor feedback - no idea if this is a good place for that or not.
Libel
Be careful, I've been advised by legal consults that stating the name of such companies and individual agents could be grounds for libel. What I'm more interested in are law firms (in every major city) that take up cases regarding 'code theft' and similar cases where there has been a positive outcome in court.
To the comment below by ulfk, on occasion it is a good safeguard to find out who the previous developer was and if their reasons check out (they were duped into completing work on similar false pretenses but have not seen final payment or were tricked into discounting their billing and have transcripts to prove the same,) its time to jump ship before doing even more unpaid work.
I'm always leery of clients
I'm always leery of clients who have worked with previous developers and are looking for fresh meat. Why wouldn't they complete the gig? Renew the contract?
(But public finger pointing can be risky too (http://drupal.org/node/283273#comment-970207, http://drupal.org/node/180555#comment-840940))
Agreed... When a potential
Agreed... When a potential client says that previous developers didn't work out, remember that you're only hearing one side of the story. With each additional failed attempt, the odds that that potential client will be a "problem client" is increased.
Safeguards are safeguards. Remove them and you have none. I'd say if you two days of "free work" that you should have been able to get the deposit - or at least paid for two days of work.
Thanks for the heads up!
Chris.
http://www.trailheadinteractive.com
Additional info
thanks for all the messages of support.
in three years of developing drupal websites for clients all over the world-
i am lucky in that i have only had a few situations like this one-
where we were clearly not on the same page.
the thing that gets me the most, is-
after a full week of doing good work for them-
is to have them just plainly state their intention not to compensate me-
until 80% of the job was done-
as if that was going to motivate me-
or somehow insure that i would complete a job in full,
on which i have already been denied payment for the first half?
ummm... no.
i wish i could say, "good on ya, cobber!"-
but instead i just wasted some of my good time trying to help people
that had very little respect or consideration for mine.
after i deleted the database for the drupal install
that i had been paid nothing for-
the person who had previously offered to break our contract
with his suggestion of 25% compensation (which i refused)-
referred to my actions as "highly unprofessional".
on that point i would have to agree-
and as although i don't have much experience in that area, i think this guy might.
for his next (and thankfully final) suggestion-
to alter a simple 50/50 work contract that he had just simply decided to abandon, now-
AFTER the WORK was completed, and still in the absence of ANY compensation-
was:
no-
i don't think i see the merit of that revision to our deal.
is it really possible for them to think that someone would consider finishing the work-
for which they have shown, the value they place on it is nothing?
and no, i'm not worried about libel for reporting plainly the facts of this unpleasant situation.
last i heard slavery was supposed to be a thing of the past.
but clearly for all the advanced communications technology that UTBox.net seems to offer-
this message has somehow not reached them yet.
Drupal samurai for hire, based in Buffalo, New York, USA.
15+ years Drupal, 20+ years web.
http://basicmagic.net
Never work on a client's
Never work on a client's servers unless they paid upfront, there should never be an exception to this rule unless you know the client personally and have an incredible amount of trust in him or her.
Wow, that completely sucks
Hey Vincent,
I've worked with dozens of different clients over the years and have only been burned once. The client was referred to me by a trusted colleague so I broke one of my "rules of engagement" and agreed to jump head first into the project without a deposit. The client was desperately behind schedule after the previous developer mysteriously disappeared (a major red flag!) I worked through the entire weekend, including the day of my wedding anniversary (with the blessing of my very understanding and supportive wife) to try and make some headway. The client assured me that the project was a top priority and that he'd be available all weekend to answer any questions, but repeated attempts to reach him by email and voice mail were left unanswered. Turns out he was drinking at some party and didn't get back to me until Monday. I proceeded to inform him that there was no way he was going to meet his deadline and that he'd have to find someone else to finish the project. I requested to get paid for at least some of my time and in return got back the nastiest email saying that I was jeopardizing his business and reputation and as a result I would receive zero compensation. Funny, I had only been on the job for a few days, but somehow the entire success or failure of the project was now squarely on my shoulders--amazing!
I learned a major lesson that day: never ever take on a project that's way behind schedule and where the previous developer has quit (probably out of disgust and frustration.)
John
-------------------------------------------------------
"The sting in any rebuke is the truth." - Benjamin Franklin
I feel for you...
I'm new to Drupal but an experienced developer on other platforms. I think we've all been there and it really sucks. A high price to pay for a lesson but hopefully it'll only happen once. Good on you for naming and shaming them, and even better for deleting what you could. They didn't deserve anything else and legally you'd probably not stand a chance, or it's not worth the hassle.
Best wishes,
Stefan
www.flashcomguru.com
www.muchosmedia.com
two sides to every story
Vincent,
This is completely biased take on the events that happened; I offered to release immediately payment of 25% to you even though we had not reached the half way mark as a sign of good faith. You said you did not want me to do that so we had a list of items that were to be completed for 50% payment.
I was waiting for those items to be completed however you then you logged into the server and deleted the drupal install/database knowing full well that there were other people entering content etc / other peoples work and IP that you deleted which is apparent from your post here that you thought we did not have backed up.
We have left the door open for you to complete the work however given your actions in attempting to delete/remove all information (not just your work) from our server i don't think the new payment terms we offered should come as a surprise. You should note comments regarding libel above when publicly posting a tirade above when we have a clear email trail which demonstrates otherwise.
From our perspective we are a bricks and mortor company with a large customer base/revenue and a willingness to pay contractors for work completed. You however are someone we found on a web forum who attempted to delete our entire database/files then hold us to ransom for 50% payment when 50% of the agreed work was not completed.
Rhett Jones
Managing Director
UTBox