I tried with every other mail: yahoo, gmail, etc. and all of them reacive fine the html, mail but hotmail only plain text, in 6.x.
I have 5.x setup in other site an works fine. I am using simplenews with mime mail.

Comments

jerdavis’s picture

Status: Active » Postponed (maintainer needs more info)

Give the latest development snapshot a try, there have been a few changes and hotmail seems to be working fine for me in my testing. Let me know if you run into any issues!

Jer

rodgolpe’s picture

Title: Only Hotmail don't reacive html mail » HTML emails are text-only in Hotmail

I installed the latest snapshot (2-8-2009) and experience the same issue. Yahoo, Gmail, and various other private domain accounts in Outlook and Lotus Notes receive HTML. Hotmail is text-only. Other HTML emails in my Hotmail account display properly.

Docc’s picture

subscribe, same problem here with the latest dev version

jgarabot’s picture

I am using the latest dev. version, the problem is something else

jerdavis’s picture

Please post the raw message source from another mail app as sent from your system.

Jer

jerdavis’s picture

Also - please post what modules you're using to generate the message.

In my testing using Send and Mimemail, HTML mail is coming through fine in Hotmail.

Jer

Docc’s picture

Im using latest stable simplenews with Mimemail.

jerdavis’s picture

Please send a message through your system to mimemail at advantagelabs.com

Docc’s picture

Done, from another system with the same result though.
1. CSS does not get stripped from text/plain part and 2. Hotmail shows the text/plain part instead of the HTML

rodgolpe’s picture

Thanks, Jer. I sent a test using Simplenews as well. (from covenanthousemi.org)

jgarabot’s picture

I sent the test from garmei.com, using simplenews

lusdeso’s picture

I have the same problem.

Anyone knows a solution?

Thanks.

jerdavis’s picture

I'll be investigating this further ASAP. Thank you for your test messages.

Jer

jerdavis’s picture

Looking at the raw source of the messages sent, I'm not seeing a clear reason why they would not show up correctly in Hotmail. I've done extensive testing on this end and so far all of my messages are showing up as HTML in hotmail. This testing was done with Mimemail HEAD and the latest development snapshot of simplenews.

There will be a new development snapshot of Mimemail within the next day, please try testing that and let me know if you still have issues.

Jer

rodgolpe’s picture

Installed and tested Feb. 22 snapshot -- same result.

lelizondo’s picture

this was the first page that came up searching the words hotmail mimmemail, altought this issue is for 6.x, those who are using 5.x go to http://drupal.org/node/78876#comment-1284988.

bejam’s picture

subscribing

jgarabot’s picture

Updated and still same problem

jerdavis’s picture

What version of simplenews are you using?

rodgolpe’s picture

From Simplenews.info: version = "6.x-1.0-rc5"

attiks’s picture

Same problem with outlook 2007, same message works in other clients

Using latest (6.x) version of mimemail, simplenews and simplenews_template
Maybe related #391874: FYI: Some remarks about the html

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:38:42 +0100
Subject: =?UTF-8?B?W0JyZWFkZ2FyZGVuIG5pZXV3c2JyaWVmXSB0ZXN0amUgNAo=?=
To: mailtest@example.com
Return-Path: <info@example.com>
Errors-To: info@example.com
From: "Tester" <info@example.com>
Content-Type: multipart/related;
    charset=utf-8;
    boundary="fec870664656b81fcee7bbe7ae47a8a9"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit
X-Mailer: Drupal
Sender: info@example.com
Reply-To: "Tester" <info@example.com>
Priority: normal
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <http://example.com/newsletter/confirm/remove/9cc7c6fb130t1>
Message-ID: <WWW1ZKsh0eCEZYrW0ox0000002f@example.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2009 11:38:42.0893 (UTC) FILETIME=[EFAB4FD0:01C99D86]
X-ME-Bayesian: 0.000169

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--fec870664656b81fcee7bbe7ae47a8a9
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
    boundary="585b65c2b709a187cd01d08de8a652cf"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


--585b65c2b709a187cd01d08de8a652cf
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

nieuwsbrief: testje 4

======== TESTJE 4 ============================================================

Text

Unsubscribe from this newsletter  
http://example.com/newsletter/confirm/remove/9cc7c6fb130t1

- - - This is a test version of the newsletter. - - -

--585b65c2b709a187cd01d08de8a652cf
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html style="margin: 0;
  padding: 10px;">
<head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head>
<body id="mimemail-body" style="margin: 0;
  padding: 10px;"><div id="center"><div id="main">


<title>nieuwsbrief: testje 4</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<style type="text/css">

<!--

-->

</style>
<table class="simplenews-template-background" width="100%" bgcolor="#B1BD1E" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td valign="top" align="center">
<table class="simplenews-template-content" width="599px" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td align="left">
<div class="simplenews-template-header">
<p style="margin-top: 0px;
    font-size: 11px;"><img src="cid:3a1df23f39780386788889ea1e856352@example.com" alt="Tester"></p>
</div>
<div class="simplenews-template-body">
<h1 style="font-size: 14px;
    color: #48311E;">testje 4</h1>
</div>
<div class="simplenews-template-footer">
<p>test</p>
</div>

</td></tr></table>
</td></tr></table>
</div></div></body>
</html><html style="margin: 0;
  padding: 10px;"><body style="margin: 0;
  padding: 10px;"><p class="newsletter-footer" style="margin-top: 0px;
    font-size: 11px;"><a href="http://example.com/newsletter/confirm/remove/9cc7c6fb130t1" style="font-size: 14px;
    color: #48311E;">Unsubscribe  
from this newsletter</a>

- - - This is a test version of the newsletter. - - -
</p></body></html>

--585b65c2b709a187cd01d08de8a652cf--

--fec870664656b81fcee7bbe7ae47a8a9
Content-ID: <3a1df23f39780386788889ea1e856352@example.com>
Content-Type: ; name="logo.png"
Content-Disposition: related; filename="logo.png"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

.... (deleted)



attiks’s picture

Some more info, no idea if it helps

If I forward the message as an attachment (eml format) from a working mail client to my outlook 2007 account i see the html part in outlook by default ...

attiks’s picture

Some more info, the attachment file I receive in outlook doesn't contain the header and footer sections i get in the other mail clients

attiks’s picture

I checked the same message using outlook web access and it's the same problem, text only version.

attiks’s picture

Solved (I guess), I changed Content-Type: multipart/related; to Content-Type: multipart/mixed; and submitted the message (as eml)using the pickup folder and I see the html, so the only question left is how to solve it before/while sending.

Thanks to post found at http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/exchangesvrclients/thre...

Update: just tested submitting the original eml file (without changing the content-type) to the pickup and it's also working.

attiks’s picture

Outlook is working fine when using pop3 for retrieval, but when using exchange you'll get into trouble. If anybody knows a solution let us know

benjamin_dk’s picture

Subscribing - experiencing the same problem (only text showing in Hotmail) - using Simplenews 6.x-1.0-rc6 and Mime Mail 6.x-1.x-dev.

mrthumpz’s picture

subscribing

osusoy’s picture

Same prob, simple solution. But probably will create other problems - if anyone out there is still using text only mail clients.

Removing the text alternative from the body makes it work fine in hotmail.

Tried swapping the alternative order first but that just messed things up in thunderbird :/

Look forward to a better solution from you guys or will let you know if i can figure something out.

dboulet’s picture

Same problem here using latest 6.x-1.x-dev and Simplenews. If I redirect the email to my Hotmail account using Mail in Mac OSX, everything looks fine, but messages sent directly to Hotmail through Simplenews are presented as text-only.

lelizondo’s picture

I'm not a dev, but can someone use http://drupal.org/node/225731 to solve this? It's for drupal 5.x and it works.

dboulet’s picture

Using the file found at http://www.drupalbin.com/4546 worked for me.

benjamin_dk’s picture

That worked it seems! Thanks a lot!!

lelizondo’s picture

Status: Postponed (maintainer needs more info) » Needs review

#32 worked for me too. I'm changing the status so the maintainer notice this, but I think someone else should try the code.

HS’s picture

I reported this issue awhile back. My emails are not only text in Hotmail but it has the full theme included too. See below:

document.body.offsetHeight ? 
document.body.scrollHeight:document.body.offsetHeight + 
'px');}#TB_window{position:fixed;background:#ffffff;z-index:102;color:#000000;display:none;border:4px 
solid #525252;text-align:left;top:50%;left:50%;}* html 
#TB_window{position:absolute;margin-top:expression(0 - 
parseInt(this.offsetHeight / 2) + (TBWindowMargin = document.documentElement 
&& document.documentElement.scrollTop || document.body.scrollTop) + 
'px');}#TB_window img#TB_Image{display:block;margin:15px 0 0 
15px;border-right:1px solid #ccc;border-bottom:1px solid #ccc;border-top:1px 
solid #666;border-left:1px solid #666;}#TB_caption{height:25px;padding:7px 
30px 10px 25px;float:left;}#TB_closeWindow{height:25px;padding:11px 25px 10px 
0;float:right;}#TB_closeAjaxWindow{padding:7px 10px 5px 
0;margin-bottom:1px;text-align:right;float:right;}#TB_ajaxWindowTitle{float:left;padding:7px 
0 5px 
10px;margin-bottom:1px;}#TB_title{background-color:#e8e8e8;height:27px;}#TB_ajaxContent{clear:both;padding:2px 
15px 15px 
15px;overflow:auto;text-align:left;line-height:1.4em;}#TB_ajaxContent.TB_modal{padding:15px;}#TB_ajaxContent 
p{padding:5px 0px 5px 
0px;}#TB_load{position:fixed;background:url(/modules/thickbox/loading_animation.gif);display:none;height:13px;width:208px;z-index:103;top:50%;left:50%;margin:-6px 
0 0 -104px;}* html #TB_load{ position:absolute;margin-top:expression(0 - 
parseInt(this.offsetHeight / 2) + (TBWindowMargin = document.documentElement 
&& document.documentElement.scrollTop || document.body.scrollTop) + 
'px');}#TB_HideSelect{z-index:99;position:fixed;top:0;left:0;background-color:#fff;border:none;filter:alpha(opacity=0);-moz-opacity:0;opacity:0;height:100%;width:100%;}* 
html #TB_HideSelect{ 
position:absolute;height:expression(document.body.scrollHeight > 
document.body.offsetHeight ? 
document.body.scrollHeight:document.body.offsetHeight + 
'px');}#TB_iframeContent{clear:both;border:none;margin-bottom:-1px;margin-top:1px;_margin-bottom:1px;}#permissions 
td.module{font-weight:bold;}#permissions 
td.permission{padding-left:1.5em;}#access-rules .access-type,#access-rules 
.rule-type{margin-right:1em; float:left;}#access-rules .access-type 
.form-item,#access-rules .rule-type .form-item{margin-top:0;}#access-rules 
.mask{clear:both;}#user-login-form{text-align:center;}#user-admin-filter 
ul{list-style-type:none;padding:0;margin:0;width:100%;}#user-admin-buttons{float:left; 
margin-left:0.5em; clear:right;}#user-admin-settings fieldset 
.description{font-size:0.85em;padding-bottom:.5em;}.profile{clear:both;margin:1em 
0;}.profile .picture{float:right; margin:0 1em 1em 0;}.profile 
h3{border-bottom:1px solid #ccc;}.profile dl{margin:0 0 1.5em 0;}.profile 
dt{margin:0 0 0.2em 0;font-weight:bold;}.profile dd{margin:0 0 1em 
0;}.user_relationships_ui_popup_form{margin:5px;padding:5px;border:5px solid 
#003380;background:#EBEBEB;display:none;width:500px;position:absolute;z-index:1000;}#forum 
.description{font-size:0.9em;margin:0.5em;}#forum td.created,#forum 
td.posts,#forum td.topics,#forum td.last-reply,#forum td.replies,#forum 
td.pager{white-space:nowrap;}#forum td.posts,#forum td.topics,#forum 
td.replies,#forum td.pager{text-align:center;}#forum tr 
td.forum{padding-left:25px; background-position:2px 2px; 
background-image:url(/misc/forum-default.png);background-repeat:no-repeat;}#forum 
tr.new-topics td.forum{background-image:url(/misc/forum-new.png);}#forum 
div.indent{margin-left:20px;}.forum-topic-navigation{padding:1em 0 0 3em; 
border-top:1px solid #888;border-bottom:1px solid 
#888;text-align:center;padding:0.5em;}.forum-topic-navigation 
.topic-previous{text-align:right; float:left; 
width:46%;}.forum-topic-navigation .topic-next{text-align:left; float:right; 
width:46%;}body div#page{ position:static;z-index:1;}body 
div#header{position:static;z-index:1;}#utilities #plinks ul 
li.expanded{position:relative;z-index:1;}#utilities #plinks ul li.expanded ul 
li{font-size:100%;line-height:135%;width:160px;z-index:100;margin:0px;padding:0px;border-bottom:1px 
solid black;}#utilities #plinks ul li.expanded 
ul{display:none;}ul.primosottolivello{margin:0px;padding:0px 5px 5px 0px; 
background:url(/themes/marinelli/img/menushadow.png) no-repeat 3px 
10%;width:160px;position:absolute;left:0px;top:30px;z-index:100;}ul.sottolivello{margin:0px;padding:0px 
5px 5px 0px; background:url(/themes/marinelli/img/menushadow.png) no-repeat 
3px 
10%;width:160px;position:absolute;left:160px;top:0px;z-index:100;}#utilities 
#plinks ul li.expanded a{background:#054b81;}body #utilities #plinks ul 
li.expanded a.active{background:#054b81 
url(/themes/marinelli/img/expanded-drop.gif) no-repeat 4px 8px;}#utilities 
#plinks ul li.expanded a.primoespanso:hover{background:#054b81 
url(/themes/marinelli/img/expanded-drop.gif) no-repeat 4px 8px;}#utilities 
#plinks ul li ul li a:hover{font-weight:normal;background:#043860;}#utilities 
#plinks ul li ul li.expanded 
a.espanso:hover{font-weight:normal;background:#043860 
url(/themes/marinelli/img/expanded-right.gif) no-repeat 95% 8px;}#utilities 
#plinks ul li.expanded a.primoespanso{background:#156aa3 
url(/themes/marinelli/img/expanded-drop.gif) no-repeat 4px 
8px;padding-left:23px;}#utilities #plinks ul li.expanded a.espanso,body 
#utilities #plinks ul li.expanded ul li a.espanso{background:#054b81 
url(/themes/marinelli/img/expanded-right.gif) no-repeat 95% 
8px;padding-right:24px;padding-left:10px;}div.user_avatar_select 
div.form-item{text-align:center;float:none;display:inline;width:85px;}div.user_avatar_select 
label.option img{ padding:5px;}div.user_avatar_select label.option 
img.avatar_hover{border:4px #7BFF57 solid;padding:1px;cursor:pointer;}body 
div.user_avatar_select label.option img.avatar_select{border:4px #FF0000 
solid;padding:1px;}div.avatar_selection_pager_nav{text-align:center;}div.avatar_selection_pager_nav 
a{padding:0 5px 0 
5px;}#edit-username-check-button{display:none;}.username-check-message{color:#FF0000;font-weight:normal;display:none;}.username-check-message-progress{color:#3E4A54;font-weight:bold;}.username-check-message-accepted{color:#417C12;}.username-check-message-rejected{color:#FF0000;}#username-check-informer{width:16px;position:absolute;display:none;}.username-check-informer{background:url(/modules/username_check/images/throbber.gif) 
no-repeat center 
3px;}.username-check-informer-accepted{background:url(/modules/username_check/images/accepted.png) 
no-repeat left 
center;}.username-check-informer-rejected{background:url(/modules/username_check/images/rejected.png) 
no-repeat left 
center;}.username-check-informer-progress{background:url(/modules/username_check/images/throbber.gif) 
no-repeat center -17px;}*{padding:0;margin:0;}body{margin:40px 0 20px 
0;}#page{margin:0px 
auto;position:relative;width:970px;}#utilities{padding:0;margin:0px 
auto;width:970px; 
height:25px;position:relative;}#header{padding:0;margin:0;height:180px;position:relative;}#submenu{ 
padding:9px 10px 9px 14px;}.wrapper{ 
margin:15px;}#primary{float:left;margin:0px;}.path{ padding-bottom:3px;}.path 
p span{ padding:5px;margin-right:10px;}#primary .singlepage .path 
p{letter-spacing:0px;margin-top:-2px;}#primary .singlepage{padding:0 0 15px 
0px;}.preview .node{ margin-bottom:10px;padding:20px;}#page #primary .drdot{ 
clear:both;}#page #primary .drdot hr{display:none;}#page #primary .tabs{ 
margin:20px 0 20px 0;}#header h1,#header p.sitetitle{ margin:0px;padding:20px 
0 12px 35px;}#header p.slogan{ padding:8px 0 10px 
60px;display:block;}#utilities form{ 
position:absolute;right:0;bottom:2px;}#utilities 
label{display:none;}#utilities 
input{margin-top:10px;margin-bottom:5px;float:left;}#utilities 
input.form-submit{ margin:10px 4px 0px 4px;padding:1px;}#utilities 
input.form-text{padding:2px;}#utilities #plinks{ 
position:absolute;left:-7px;bottom:0px!important;bottom:-1px;}#utilities 
#plinks ul li{display:inline;float:left;margin-right:-2px;}.admintab{ }* html 
.admintab{padding:5px 15px 
6px}.lsidebar{width:180px;float:left;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:15px;}.rsidebar{width:180px;float:left;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:15px;}#sitemission{ 
margin:0px 0 20px 0;padding:15px;}.defaultblock{margin:0px 0 20px 
0;}.defaultblock .blockcontent{margin:0px 0 20px 0;}.loginblock{margin:0px 0 
20px 0;padding:0px 0 5px 0;}form#user-login-form 
label{margin-bottom:3px;}.loginblock ul li{margin:0;padding:0;}.defaultblock 
.blockcontent,.loginblock .blockcontent{padding:0 10px 0 10px;}.defaultblock 
h2{padding:8px 4px 0px 12px;margin-bottom:10px;}.loginblock 
h2{padding:4px;margin:0px 0 10px 0;}#primary .item{margin:0 0 15px 
0;padding:0;}#primary .item .itemhead{margin:0 0 5px 0;padding:0;}#primary 
.item .itemhead h3{display:block;margin:0 0 0 0 !important;margin:0 0 0 
10px;padding:0;}#primary .item .itemtext{margin:0;padding:0;}#primary .item 
.itemtext p,#primary .item .itemtext ul,#primary .item .itemtext ol,#primary 
.item .itemtext div,#primary .item .itemtext blockquote{margin:0 0 0 0 
!important;margin:0 0 0 10px;}#primary .item .itemhead 
p.metadata{display:block;margin:2px 0 0 0 !important;margin:2px 0 0 
10px;}#primary .singlepage p{margin:0 0 10px 0;}#primary .singlepage 
h1,#primary .singlepage h2,#primary .singlepage h3,#primary .singlepage 
h4,#primary .singlepage h5,#primary .singlepage h6{margin:0px 0 10px 
0;padding:0;}#primary .singlepage h1{margin-bottom:12px;}#primary .singlepage 
h2.with-tabs{margin-bottom:30px;}#primary .singlepage 
p.small{margin-top:10px;padding-top:5px;}#primary img{margin:0 15px 0px 
0;padding:4px;}#primary .singlepage img.destra{ margin:0 0px 0px 
15px;padding:4px;float:right;}#primary .singlepage img.sinistra{ margin:0 
15px 0px 0;padding:4px;float:left;}#primary .singlepage 
img.altobasso{margin:0px;display:block;padding:0px;float:none;}#footer{width:970px;margin:0 
auto;padding:15px 0;}.clear{clear:both;margin:0;padding:0;}.itemtext 
ol,.itemtext ul{padding:0 0 0 35px;margin:0;}.itemtext ol li,.itemtext ul 
li{margin:0 0 3px;padding:0;}.secondary div p{margin-top:0.5em;}.secondary 
ul,.secondary ol,.secondary div{margin:5px 0 0;padding-left:0;}.tabs ul 
li{background:none;padding:0;margin:0;list-style:none;}#primary 
ul{margin:10px 0 10px 0;}.item-list ul li{margin:0 0 1px 0px;padding:0px 0 
0px 22px;}#primary .singlepage .node .content li{ margin:2px 0 2px 
0px;padding-left:22px;}#primary .singlepage .node .content ol li{ margin:2px 
0 2px 0px;padding-left:0px;}#primary .singlepage .node .content ul,#primary 
.singlepage .node .content ol,#primary .singlepage form ul{margin:10px 0 10px 
25px;}.rsidebar ul.menu li,.rsidebar .item-list ul li,.rsidebar 
li.leaf,.lsidebar ul.menu li,.lsidebar .item-list ul li,.lsidebar 
li.leaf{padding:.15em 0 .15em 1.5em;}ul.inline li{margin:0;padding:0 1em 0 
0;}.view table tr td{padding:0px;}table{margin:1em 
0;width:98%;padding:0px;}table tr td{padding:5px;}#primary .node 
table{border-collapse:collapse;}#system-themes table img.screenshot 
{width:100px;}thead th{border-bottom:2px solid 
#ccc;margin-bottom:4px;padding-bottom:4px;}tr:first-child 
td.region,tr:first-child td.module,tr:first-child 
td.container{border-top-width:0;}.sticky-table{ 
clear:left;padding:0px;overflow:hidden;}hr{margin:0;padding:0;height:1px;}dl{margin:0;}dl 
dd{margin:0.5em 0 .5em 1.5em;}dl dt{padding:0 0 0 20px;margin:4px 0 4px 
0;}.messages ul{margin:0;}.form-checkboxes,.form-radios,.form-checkboxes 
.form-item,.form-radios .form-item{margin:0.25em 
0;}.form-button,.form-submit{margin:0.5em 0.5em 1em 
0;}#watchdog-form-overview .form-submit,.confirmation 
.form-submit,.search-form .form-submit,.poll .form-submit,fieldset 
.form-button,fieldset .form-submit,.sidebar .form-button,.sidebar 
.form-submit,table .form-button,table .form-submit{margin:0;}fieldset 
ul.clear-block li{margin:0;padding:0;}.box{margin-bottom:2.5em;}#primary 
.content 
blockquote{margin:15px;padding:12px;}div.admin-panel{margin:0;padding:5px 0px 
15px 5px;}div.admin-panel .description{margin:0 0 3px;padding:2px 0 3px 
0;}div.admin-panel .body{padding:0 0px 2px 
0px;}div.admin{padding-top:15px;}div.admin 
.left{float:left;width:45%;margin-left:1em;}div.admin 
.right{float:right;width:45%;margin-right:1.1em;}div.bymodule ul 
li{margin:3px 0 3px 0;padding:0px 0 0 22px;}#primary 
.messages{padding:10px;}#primary .messages .status{padding:20px;}#primary 
.help .help{padding:5px;margin:15px 0 15px 0;}#primary .help .help ul 
li{padding-left:15px;}#comments{margin-top:2em;}.commentTitle{margin-bottom:10px;}#comments 
.content{margin-bottom:5px;}.submitted{margin-bottom:10px;}.comment{margin:0 
0 
2em;padding:1em;}.links{margin-top:1em;clear:both;}.linksteaser{padding-bottom:15px;margin-bottom:15px;}.linksteaser 
ul li{margin-right:5px;}.comment .links ul 
li{padding-left:23px;padding-top:1px;padding-bottom:1px;}#primary .links 
li.comment_forbidden,#primary .links li.comment_comments,#primary .links 
li.blog_usernames_blog first{padding-left:22px;}.links 
li.comment_add{padding:0px 0 0 23px;}.links .node_read_more{padding:1px 0 0 
23px;}.taxonomy{margin:15px 0 25px 
0;padding-top:10px;clear:left;}.taxonomyteaser{margin:10px 0 15px 
0;padding-bottom:10px;clear:left;}.taxonomy span{}p 
span.tagsteaser{padding-left:23px;}.preview .node .taxonomy ul li 
span{padding-left:3px;padding-right:3px;}.metanode 
span{padding-bottom:5px;}.metanode span.author{}.metanode 
span.date{}.item-list ul.pager{margin:0px;padding-top:10px;}.item-list .pager 
li{margin:0px;padding:3px;}.item-list .pager 
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HS’s picture

OK. The Mime Mail CSS Combiner module which is included in the module fixed my issue, but plain text emails for hotmail is still an issue.

tanc’s picture

Hilal, if you want to avoid all your theme's css being included just put a mail.css file in your (admin) theme's directory and it will automatically get picked up and used by mimemail instead.

pieterbezuijen’s picture

The patch in #32 seems older than the version I'm using (mimemail dev of 08-02-2009), so didn't try that.

In my case, the first newsletter was just fine, and the second was text only. I saw a difference in the header that is the same as in #25. I solved this very easy by placing an inline (relative) image of 1x1 pixel. Now there is an attachment included and the message is sent as multipart/mixed and all works fine.

Maybe this will help?

patchak’s picture

I'm using latest and greatest for mime mail and simplenews, and I'm still unable to see a html email in hotmail!

I have inserted some inline images in the body and still no luck.

I also tested to forward from gmail and OSX Mail, and the email gets to Hotmail in html form.

The only place where this does not work is when the mail is sent directly to Hotmail!

it seems the fix in #32 works for some people, but I tried replacing the latest mimemail.inc with the one from that comment and it broke the module.

Maybe someone could make a diff from the two versions and post a more recent version so we could test it?

I'm no coder at all, so I can't really do it, but would be ready to test anything!

Patchak

bright8’s picture

This issues seems to be also covered in: http://drupal.org/node/310305
I have just posted the solution that works for me on that thread, but include it here too for completeness:

This problem definitely seems to be caused because Hotmail (and presumably Outlook, for those who are having similar problems with Outlook) doesn't like the MIME type "multipart/alternative". I have no idea why this is, but forcing the MIME type to "multipart/mixed" fixes the problem for me.

I did this by adding an extra line to mimemail.inc at line 321 (Mime Mail version 6.x-1.x-dev dated 2009-Jun-08):

$content_type = 'multipart/mixed';
return mimemail_multipart_body($parts, "$content_type; charset=utf-8");

This is obviously a kludge but it solves the problem for the type of newsletters I want to send out. mimemail.inc sets $content_type to "multipart/alternative" as the default setting, then modifies it to "multipart/related" or "multipart/mixed" based on some criteria that I don't really understand. Perhaps using "multipart/mixed" as the initial default would be a safer choice?

iris_hbo’s picture

using the absolute path in the img src (in my node-simplenews-body.tpl.php), they were not sent as attachements, but the newsletter appeared plain in hotmail. if i indicated the pics using $base_path, the pictures were sent as attachements, but everything looked fine in hotmail.

encho’s picture

#40 That worked for me, thanks. Hope it will be fixed in the next release.

RAFA3L’s picture

subscribe

Delta Bridges’s picture

Hello bright8,

I am confused about your #40 ... I have the same version of Mime mail as you do, but somehow it looks like your extra line is already included !!

  foreach ($attachments as $a) {
    $a = (object) $a;
    $content_type = 'multipart/mixed';
    _mimemail_file($a->filepath, $a->filename, $a->filemime, 'attachment');
    $parts = array_merge($parts, _mimemail_file());
  }

  return mimemail_multipart_body($parts, "$content_type; charset=utf-8");
}

function mimemail_parse($message) {

But then again, I don;t know much about coding... do you think you could provide a patch?
Many thanks!

codemann’s picture

I can't get this fixed on Hotmail, I tried all the patches that are suggested above.
I'm using the dev version of Drupal 6 (2009-Jun-08), trying to send an email with Simplenews/Mimemail, the layout is in a table and contains 2 images. Works perfectly for me in Thunderbird, Outlook 2007 and Gmail. But in Hotmail it keeps appearing as a text mail... It's really driving me crazy, I have no idea what this can be.

jwaxman’s picture

StatusFileSize
new5.56 KB

Here's the mimemail.inc file I'm using.
If this doesn't solve the problem then there's another problem.
What input filter have you pointed Mimemail to?

javamandk’s picture

#46 This fixed my problem in hotmail.

Line: 323

   //return mimemail_multipart_body($parts, "$content_type; charset=utf-8");
  $content_type = 'multipart/mixed';
  return mimemail_multipart_body($parts,$content_type);

Thanks..

jerome72’s picture

Thank you so much jwaxman!

It worked great for me as well! :) :)

HTF’s picture

#40 also worked for me, thank you for your help bright8

hanoii’s picture

subscribe

kelvincool’s picture

#40 fixed my hotmail issue too! Thanks!

jrglasgow’s picture

StatusFileSize
new734 bytes

Here is an actual patch based on #47 which worked for me

nardberjean’s picture

Double embeded multipart structure

I just tested unmodified version of 6.x-alpha1 and it shows as text/plain in Hotmail, using css compressor as well. I compared what mimemail produces and icedove, I am suprised by the double embeded multipart structure found on mimemail messages.

https://wiki.koumbit.net/Courriel_html_de_Mime_Mail_6.x-1.0-alpha1_trait...

https://wiki.koumbit.net/Courriel_html_de_icedove_accept%C3%A9_par_Hotmail

Patch #52 sucessfull

I applied the patch in comment #52 and I am using it successfully in production, all tests have been passed. The only related issue is messages been treated as spam, but it looks like a different issue.

Reference of patch #52

http://drupal.org/files/issues/mimemail-372710.patch

lelizondo’s picture

patch in #52 worked great

UNarmed’s picture

Hope this works for me aswell, gone give it a try now =D

pacome’s picture

It also worked for me ! Thx a lot for the patch !

But I still have a problem : in Yahoo! and Hotmail, the image appear as a broken link...
Everything is fine in Gmail, images are visible..

Any advice ?

Best
-P-

danny_joris’s picture

patch #52 worked for me as well.

This hasn't been added yet to the latest version, which was commit 3 months after this solution (#47) was posted and a month after the patch. Why is this the case? Is there something wrong with it?

new_B’s picture

Version: 6.x-1.x-dev » 6.x-1.0-alpha1

Ditto here. Patch #52 worked for me too (for the most current release). Will this be included in the next release?

sutharsan’s picture

Bump.
Allie, what do we need to do to get this issue moving? Testing of what kind?

sutharsan’s picture

Status: Needs review » Needs work

Hmm, pls disregard my comment. I took a minute to look at the code and saw all the reason why this patch can not be accepted. It may work it in some situations, but is a terrible hack :( Needs investigation, work and proper testing.

mtpultz’s picture

Status: Needs work » Needs review

#52 works for me too. Thanks

Subscribing in case of new developments.

vstmusic’s picture

Suscribing

nardberjean’s picture

I am surprized how things can be changed without real new argument. I we want the module to continue to work in a couple of year, maybe we need ...

sutharsan’s picture

Status: Needs review » Needs work

Take one minute: mimemail.inc 6.x-1.x-dev line 309 - 322. Look at the patch in #52. The patch inserts this line of code between 320 and 321

 $content_type = 'multipart/mixed';

. This is hackish and not a solution to be committed. Need more arguments?

sutharsan’s picture

Duplicated by #310305: Disabling base64 encoding - hotmail compatibility This issue has a similar patch, with the same positive effect. There must be something good in this solution, but ... The thing is that issues only attract people who have a problem. The people who will have a problem when a bad patch is committed don't have a voice. And problems occur when under unforseen situations, situations different from the one for which the patch was created. So, the patch (each patch) should be tested under may different conditions, especially conditions for which the patch was not created.

All can help:
Who wants to contribute and to set-up a test-environment which can send various kind of emails (with/without attachement, with/without embedded images, with/without plain text alternatives, ... (I can't think of more variations))?
Who has/wants to set-up many different email clients to receive and verify the test mails on?

neoglez’s picture

I had the same problem with an Microsof Exchange server, it would show the text/plain version although it includes the html version as an attachment.
Although the patch 52 worked i agree with #60

ian-g’s picture

@Sutharsan:

I'd be happy to help, I have my own server, and I too experience the issue. The fix for changing the $content_type worked for me. As a simple workaround that could be adopted into the next release, how about having an admin configuration checkbox that allows this line to be set or otherwise...

The patch would then become something like (on line 321 I believe)

   if ($adminScreenOutlookWorkaroundEnabled == TRUE) {
     $content_type = 'multipart/mixed';
  }

Obviously this variable would be the status of the checkbox on the admin configuration screen, which would obviously be disabled by default, but for those of us who have to patch this everytime a new release is deployed, we could just enable it. I don't really know what causes the problem, but I experience it from my development laptop and on our live server too, as well as on my own external development server. I run Ubuntu 8.04 on all these boxes.

Ian.

new_B’s picture

I agree with Sutharsan regarding the patch.

I tested the patch in Yahoo & for some reason, the e-mail shows an attachment icon. This was not the case without the patch.

I also tested forwarding the e-mail (e.g. in Outlook 97). Just hitting forward, the e-mail seems fine and the HTML version is visible. However, the e-mail that is actually sent is plain text as a jumble of nonsense characters). Forwarding in Hotmail, Yahoo, and Gmail are fine.

new_B’s picture

The forwarding issue in Outlook 97 seems to be related to long subject lines and newline insertion http://drupal.org/node/541510#comment-2611728 and does seem to relate to this issue after all.

perarnet’s picture

StatusFileSize
new6.11 KB

This patch works for me. Added a admin setting to choose character encoding, and converting the message to the selected encoding before sending.
This can be updated with more encodings in includes/mimemail.admin.inc line 44. So far only added the ones I need.
'#options' => array(
'utf-8' => t('Unicode (UTF-8)'),
'iso-8859-1' => t('Latin-1 (ISO-8859-1'),

Please have a look and see if it solves your need.

perarnet’s picture

Status: Needs work » Needs review
StatusFileSize
new6.31 KB

My last patch didn't convert plain text properly. Updated patch attached

sgabe’s picture

Is this issue still valid at all? I've just signed up for a hotmail account and tested this with the unmodified version of 6.x-alpha1. The HTML test e-mail arrived just fine, aside from other issues not related to this of course, but it was HTML not plain text. I tried it via webmail and via POP3 with Thunderbird too. Can you give some instructions how to reproduce this?

perarnet’s picture

StatusFileSize
new7.81 KB

Another update to the patch. Seemed it didn't solve the problem at all. Needed to remove the double boundary definitions.

sgabe:

It's not just related to hotmail. A plain install of mimemail and simplenews encodes the mail with UTF-8. Mailclients which support utf-8 encoding has no problem with this,
but others do. This patch helps the users who use clients that does not support utf-8. Also the issue with double boundary interfered with hotmail on my end. As far as I
read the mime definitions, you shouldn't use a double set of boundaries. The unpatched mimemail module produces these headers:

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
charset=utf-8;
boundary="69622e1edd535c65f62c577792817388"
MIME-Version: 1.0

and then:
--69622e1edd535c65f62c577792817388
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="0fe041e6322f489bf2015bb9fc3acaf9"

and at the end:

--0fe041e6322f489bf2015bb9fc3acaf9--

--69622e1edd535c65f62c577792817388--

perarnet’s picture

sgabe:

Just tested on a fresh site. Here's how to reproduce:

Install mimemail and simplenews modules.
Set up a newsletter and send to your hotmail address.

The mail shows up as a plaintext mail, with the html as attachment.

For hotmail the boundary fix is enough to show the htmlmail correctly. For other clients which do not show utf-8 mails correctly, the rest of the patch is needed.

perarnet’s picture

StatusFileSize
new3.43 KB

Here's a patch for only the boundary fix.

sgabe’s picture

@perarnet: Yeah, I found the way in the mean time. I tried with embedded images and attachments at first, in that case the boundaries are fine so the HTML email shows up correctly. I applied your latest patch and it seems that solves the problem. I will dig deeper to roll this in #743150: Mime Mail 6.x-1.0-beta1? and see how it works with the other issues.

Thanks for the boundary patch!

sgabe’s picture

@perarnet: As I expected, the patch breaks the embedded images and attachments. Did you test it in different cases (embedded images, attachments etc.)?

sgabe’s picture

Status: Needs review » Needs work

Changing status, see my previous post.

sgabe’s picture

Status: Needs work » Needs review
StatusFileSize
new1.3 KB

I did some investigation in this issue. These patches we have here don't solve the problem, just handle the symptom with serious side effects.

  • Changing the content-type to multipart/mixed breaks the embedded images in Thunderbird.
  • The single boundary works with only text/html and text/plain part messages, but breaks the embedded images and the attachments altogether everywhere.

I think what we miss here is the content-type header's type parameter containing the content type of the display message.

The type parameter must be specified and its value is the MIME media type of the "root" body part. It permits a MIME user agent to determine the content-type without reference to the enclosed body part. If the value of the type parameter and the root body part's content-type differ then the User Agent's behavior is undefined.

See RFC 2387.

So, if we are sending a HTML message, we should have something like this:

<?php
function mimemail_html_body($body, $subject, $plaintext = FALSE, $text = NULL, $attachments = array()) {
  ...
  $content_type = 'multipart/related type="multipart/alternative"';
  ...
  $content = mimemail_multipart_body($content, 'multipart/alternative', TRUE);
  ...
  return mimemail_multipart_body($parts, "$content_type; charset=utf-8");
}
?>

Tested with:

  • Windows Live Hotmail
  • Outlook 2007
  • Thunderbird

In scenarios:

  • Simple (html and plain)
  • Attachment (html and plain)
  • Embedded image (html and plain)
  • Embedded image with attachment (html and plain)

Of course since we have different issues waiting to be fixed, with 6.x-1.0-alpha1 it is not perfect, but a HTML message comes through fine in every case. The attached patch here applies to 6.x-1.0-alpha1, but I have integrated this into #743150: Mime Mail 6.x-1.0-beta1? and the test results are very promising. I will update that issue ASAP, so you can test this with that one too.

nardberjean’s picture

Version: 6.x-1.0-alpha1 » 6.x-1.0-alpha2

Thanks sgabe for the new patch in #79 http://drupal.org/files/issues/mimemail.372710_02.patch

As you told, it works fine with hotmail and thunderbird, and also with gmail, but there is a severe issue with yahoo : messages appear as empty. I have to revert to a previous pach.

nardberjean’s picture

Here is the test message, note than a third module adds some headers:
List-Archive: <...>
List-Post: <.../node/add>
List-Id: ...

From - Fri Mar 26 10:08:30 2010
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
Return-Path: <...>
X-Original-To: ...
Delivered-To: ...
Received: ...
Errors-To: ...
From: ...
Content-Type: multipart/related type="multipart/alternative";
    charset=utf-8;
    boundary="678c63a96ea42c79b77028466ece8cbb"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit
X-Mailer: Drupal
Sender: ...
Disposition-Notification-To: ...
X-Confirm-Reading-To: ...
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <...>
List-Archive: <...>
List-Post: <.../node/add>
List-Id: ...
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 10:08:16 -0400
To: ...
Subject: =?UTF-8?...?=
Message-Id: <...>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--678c63a96ea42c79b77028466ece8cbb
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
    boundary="733f81e588c2a8ed713ae8ce904bb18e"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


--733f81e588c2a8ed713ae8ce904bb18e
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

-------- ESSAI 2010-03-26 C BUG AVEC YAHOO FEEDBACK NEEDED, TROP L'HABITUDE
         D'ENVOYER DES MESSAGE VIDES -----------------------------------------

Nous disions donc que ce message n'était paws vide !

http://...

Me désabonner de ce bulletin  
http://...


--733f81e588c2a8ed713ae8ce904bb18e
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/loose.dtd">
<html>
<head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head>
<body id="mimemail-body" style="margin:0;padding:0;background:#eee;color:#000;font-size:100.1%;">
    <div id="center">
      <div id="main">
        <h2 style="margin:2px04px0;font-size:1.25em;color:#690;">essai 2010-03-26 c bug avec yahoo feedback needed, trop l'habitude  
d'envoyer des message vides</h2>

<span class="print-link"></span><p style="margin-bottom:0.9em;line-height:1.5em;">Nous disions donc que ce message n'était  
paws vide !</p>

<p style="margin-bottom:0.9em;line-height:1.5em;"><a href="http://..." style="text-decoration:none;font-weight:bold;">http://...</a></p>



   <p class="newsletter-footer" style="margin-bottom:0.9em;line-height:1.5em;"><a href="http://..." style="text-decoration:none;font-weight:bold;">Me  
désabonner de ce bulletin</a></p>

      </div>
    </div>
  </body>
</html>

--733f81e588c2a8ed713ae8ce904bb18e--

--678c63a96ea42c79b77028466ece8cbb--
nardberjean’s picture

Status: Needs review » Needs work
sgabe’s picture

Status: Needs work » Needs review
StatusFileSize
new1.3 KB

@nardberjean: Thanks for your feedback. I have always wanted a yahoo mail account... :-)

The problem is that the semicolon is missing at the end of the content-type:

$content_type = 'multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"';

I tested this with Yahoo too, and seems to be working everywhere. I am attaching a revised patch. Please review it, and if it works for you too, mark this issue as RTBC.

jwaxman’s picture

Is there now a patched version around somewhere with all of the latest incredible sgabe fixes?

sgabe’s picture

@jwaxman: See this #743150: Mime Mail 6.x-1.0-beta1? issue. The 04 version is out-of-date already, but I will upload the latest 05 version in a couple of hours.

nardberjean’s picture

Thanks @sgabe and you know all whose accounts with a lot of advertising...

Mail clients tested successfully:

* Thunderbird (Icedove)

* Roundcube

* Fastmail

* Gmail

* Yahoo, but message appears as spam and I do not know why,

* Hotmail

luti’s picture

StatusFileSize
new1.35 KB

#83 is almost perfect ;-)

Altough everything works well with it applied (as much as I've checked), according to RFC-2387, charset parameter should not be used with multipart/related (see for instance this post regarding that).

So, here is my patch which should resolve also this minor issue.

luti’s picture

nardberjean,

probably it is related to this:

The multipart type is intended to show the same content in different ways, but this is sometimes abused; some e-mail spam takes advantage of the format to trick spam filters into believing that the message is legitimate. They do this by including innocuous content in the text part of the message and putting the spam in the HTML part (which is what displays to the user).

Most e-mail spam is sent in HTML for these reasons, so spam filters sometimes give higher spam scores to HTML messages.

sgabe’s picture

Status: Needs review » Reviewed & tested by the community

@LUTi: You are right, thanks for the feedback.

Revised, retested and confirmed working. Marking as RTBC. (yehaa!)

emdalton’s picture

Confirmed this fixed our problem with messages appearing in text form with an HTML attachment in Outlook 2007. Looking forward to this fix being rolled into the main branch, so I don't have to remember to apply this patch every time we update Mime Mail.

sgabe’s picture

every time we update Mime Mail.

Sadly that's not happening too often...

luti’s picture

@sgabe,

I would rather say fortunately... ;-)

A lot of updates usually means only a code instability (many bugs / issues). If I hate something it is a new non-development version released every couple of days (as I never know which version is more buggy in such a case - if it is better to stay with the old one or update and risk to have even more problems after...).

But, don't misunderstand me - I am also looking forward to close at least some of all those pending mimemail issues, and finally get a non-development release. And, appreciate your effort regarding that. Thanks.

sgabe’s picture

@LUTi: Yep, you're right. That would be a worse scenario.

jerdavis’s picture

Status: Reviewed & tested by the community » Fixed

Committed to HEAD

Status: Fixed » Closed (fixed)

Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.

j0nathan’s picture

subscribing

Hobbes-2’s picture

subscribing

Hobbes-2’s picture

thanks for the great job!

patch #52 worked for me as well, and I hope to have this fixed in the next release

:-)

sgabe’s picture

@Hobbes: Patch in #52 is not good! You should use the patch in #87 which is the right one and committed to HEAD.

roball’s picture

Version: 6.x-1.0-alpha2 » 6.x-1.0-alpha3
Status: Closed (fixed) » Needs work
StatusFileSize
new1.21 KB

The committed patch (now in alpha3) does not work with the mailclient "TheBat!" - the mail's body is empty. It did work in alpha2, so I had to revert parts of that patch. The attached patch against alpha3 makes the necessary reversions to work again. Please consider another workaround for Hotmail.

sgabe’s picture

I just tested with The Bat! (latest Home) and I couldn't reproduce, everything is fine in all scenarios.

However, this issue is not just about Hotmail. If you read the whole thread, you will see many client is affected by this. Nor yet it seems the #733566: iPhone displays only plain text instead of html issue is related. So a revert patch like yours would break again tons of things for sure, without bringing us real benefit. If you take a look at the patch, you will notice it is good, since before we didn't respect RFC 2387. In turn, we should do that.

Please, try and test on a clean install. If the problem persist, try to provide details how to reproduce.

roball’s picture

StatusFileSize
new1.99 KB

I have sent a test mail using the great new Views Send module in the "Full HTML" input type. See the attached zip file for the resulting mbox file by sending the same message using Mime Mail 6.x-1.0-alpha2 (mimemail-alpha2.mbox) versus 6.x-1.0-alpha3 (mimemail-alpha3.mbox).

sgabe’s picture

@roball: Are you using the SMTP module?

sgabe’s picture

@roball: I guess you are using SMTP module and experiencing this #727744: Missing boundary delimiter in multipart/related e-mails with SMTP and MimeMail issue. I reported the problem and provided a patch a few months ago. Please, test and confirm that issue, so hopefully it can be committed soon.

sgabe’s picture

Status: Needs work » Fixed

Marking this issue as fixed again and hopefully last time :) since the problem reported by roball is caused by SMTP as I described above.

roball’s picture

Status: Fixed » Needs review
StatusFileSize
new558 bytes
new2.62 KB

Hi Gabor,

I wanted to answer also here after posting to #727744: Missing boundary delimiter in multipart/related e-mails with SMTP and MimeMail, but couldn't reach drupal.org the entire remaining day yesterday. Yes, you are right, the problem was in the SMTP module and your patch there indeed fixed it :-) Thanks!

However, the #87 addition to the patch that fixed the original issue should be reverted IMO because it displays the plain-text part of the multipart message in the wrong charset (iso-8859-1 instead of utf-8), at least in The Bat.

The attached patch reverts the removal of the UTF-8 assignment. See the resulting mbox files from the same mail sent without and with this patch.

sgabe’s picture

Hello Robert,
Please, read the whole thread before bringing up any issue. :-) We discussed this question, see LUTi's post in #87. According to RFC 2387 the multipart/related content-type does not have charset parameter. No point about it, since the individual parts define the charset parameter, which is set to UTF-8 by Mime Mail for that matter. IMHO, PHPMailer should do this too. However, my suggestion is to set the default charset to UTF-8 in class.phpmailer.php when using PHPMailer. See:

class PHPMailer {
  [...]

  /**
   * Sets the CharSet of the message.
   * @var string
   */
  public $CharSet = 'iso-8859-1';

  [...]

roball’s picture

Thanks for the suggestion. Will try to change $CharSet in class.phpmailer.php to 'UTF-8' and report back.

Valeratal’s picture

subscribe

roball’s picture

Status: Needs review » Fixed

sgabe, thanks again for your useful suggestion. Indeed, that was the solution. Thus the committed changes can stay as theey are - relabeling this issue as fixed.

The only thing that users updating Mime Mail from 6.x-1.0-alpha2 to 6.x-1.0-alpha3 and relying on the SMTP module should be aware of is that they must ensure to check 2 things:

Status: Fixed » Closed (fixed)

Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.

sgabe’s picture

This is already fixed and committed since alpha3. However the patch in #52 isn't good for anything. You should read the whole thread.