Hi Guys.

anyone know what opendomains.org is all about?

I just noticed www. drupal .com is now an "open domain".

Dub

[edit: removed hyperlink -sepeck]

Comments

robertDouglass’s picture

They want to piggy-back on the great reputation of Drupal to get their link on high traffic, high page-rank sites. And they want to do it under the guise of "open". What is so open about cybersquatting a domain, then "benevolently" allowing the people who are busy making the domain valuable to use it as long as those same people abide by their terms of service:

Legal Terms

  1. These terms are subject to change and modification

  2. These terms are not legal qualifications. They are written in general language for better understanding, and are not meant to be legally binding to OpenDomain. When you sign up for the Open Domain program, we will send you an email with certain guarantees.

  3. No part of this web site or external literature is meant to be a promise of services or products, and does not obligate us in any way

  4. We will work to provide free use any domain to anyone; however the Open Domain program may not be available in all areas, due to regional laws and regulations, or due to technical concerns.

  5. We may not be held liable for any damages for any reason, including networking or programmatic issues that may hinder the use of some domains.

Terms of Use

  1. The domain should be used by a group most closely associated to the context of its name

  2. The domain must be actively marketed and significantly used

    1. Periodic content changes

    2. Regular submission to search engines

    3. You can not just create a ‘doorway portal’ with no actual content

  3. Only one domain may be used per group

  4. We would like a link on all pages

    1. The link must be predominate and visiable

    2. The link must be part of the original HTML document and not generated

    3. All outbound links must be marked with the nofollow attribute. For example, all anchor tags should have rel=”nofollow” in their markup. This does NOT include the link to OpenDomain.Org

  5. NO Pop-ups

  6. NO automatic re-direction to other sites

  7. NO objectionable content

    1. No adult material

    2. No defamatory comments

  8. NO SPAM

It's a disgusting ploy. Can't those people go and find a way to earn money through doing productive work instead of trying to game the Google teats into squirting adsense cash into their infantile mouths?

- Robert Douglass

-----
My Drupal book: Building Online Communities with Drupal, phpBB and WordPress

robertDouglass’s picture

... I'll admit to error in judgement when the Drupal Foundation is established, and the people sitting on Drupal.com *donate* it to the foundation and stick their terms of service up /dev/null.

- Robert Douglass

-----
My Drupal book: Building Online Communities with Drupal, phpBB and WordPress

ergophobe’s picture

I know nothing about these folks, but it appears that if you expect a pure donation, you'll be out of luck:

We transfered the domain WordPress.Com to the Wordpress foundation as part of the OpenDomain program for free. We did not ‘donate’ it - we traded it in exchange for a link to OpenDomain.Org to help promote our own Open and Free movement.

The curious thing is that I went to the domain in question and there is no such link. The thing is, if they truly are transferring the domain, I wonder what teeth they have to enforce their conditions. I find the condition that all links except the one to their site have the rel="nofollow" to be... restrictive to say the least.

Yosemite Explorer - hiking and climbing in Yosemite (drupal)

Heine’s picture

Because the user of the OpenDomain WordPress.Com have not followed the terms
of use, we will be seeking to stopping the service. We assert that they are
not the rightful owners of this domain.
Please remove any direct or indirect link to the domain WordPress.Com from
the Flock browser, web site, and documents immediately.
If you fail to comply within 48 hours, Flock will named in the suit for
damages along with Matthew Mullenweg.

Thank you,
Ric Johnson
President, OpenDomain.Org

For more information, please visit http://free.wordpress.com

From http://lists.flock.com/pipermail/flock-discuss/2005-October/000001.html
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Dublin Drupaller’s picture

Thanks for the heads up.

I wasn't sure if it was a scam of some sort..now I see...it's just another form of get-rich-quick cybersquatting. Albeit an extremely sly version of it.

Dub

Currently in Switzerland working as an Application Developer with UBS Investment Bank...using Drupal 7 and lots of swiss chocolate

sepeck’s picture

-sp
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain

-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide

gollyg’s picture

Can't those people go and find a way to earn money through doing productive work instead of trying to game the Google teats into squirting adsense cash into their infantile mouths?

beautiful, just beautiful!

sprite’s picture

The federal anti-cybersquatting statutes make it possible to sue the jerks above in U.S. District Court for a $250.00 filing fee and obtain an injunction court order to force them to transfer the domain to the drupal community.

Most jerks like the one above usually don't fight back very hard because they haven't got a legal leg to stand on. The federal statute smacks them down hard. They are also obviously commiting trademark infringment. The case law is firmly on the side of the drupal community.

Any conscionable U.S. intellectual property attorney ought to do it pro-bono as a contribution to the open-source effort.

The alternative is the $2,000.00 ICANN domain arbitration process, which would have similar results.

In the end drupal.com is the property of the drupal project / community - unequivocally....

Give the current drupal.com cybersquatters nothing.
Use the courts to take the domain away from them.

Turkeys like the cybersquatters who have hijacked drupal.com should be run off the planet and beyond the ionosphere.

spritefully yours
Technical assistance provided to the Drupal community on my own time ...
Thank yous appreciated ...

ioo’s picture

I had 2 domains of a client of mine cybersquatted, and they used the anti-cybersquatting statutes and was able to get the domain from the person for the $250 and like $30 (The price for the time it was registered (2 Years if I recall)).

My client asked for nothing extra just the doamin, but I think you can also asked for some damages.

In short the squatters had 5 days to turn over the domain, or face HUGE fines...

Look, not sure what this guys real issue is, but the fact is, he has no real claim to Drupal.com NONE, ZERO, NADA..

gollyg’s picture

im in for $20!

ioo’s picture

United States Code
TITLE 15. COMMERCE AND TRADE
CHAPTER 22—TRADEMARKS
SUBCHAPTER III--GENERAL PROVISIONS

Under the Anticyberquatting Consumer Protection Act, a person may face civil liability to the owner of a trademark (or a personal name) if such person:
(i) has a bad faith intent to profit from a mark; and
(ii) registers, trafficks in, or uses a domain name that:
(a) is identical or confusingly similar to a distinctive trademark;(b) is identical, confusingly similar to or dilutive of a famous trademark; or
(c) infringes a specially-granted trademark such as "U.S. OLYMPICS" or "AMERICAN RED CROSS."
See the entire text of Section 43(d)
A "distinctive trademark" is any trademark that has been registered with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office or which has been used with goods and/or services for sufficient time that it has acquired "secondary meaning" among consumers.

A simple google search will list 100's of lawyers. From what I read, you don't really need one, I think it is cut and dry...

Heine’s picture

There are even more squatters:

See http://drupal.nl

This site is owned by TeDoc (Wolvega, NL), that wants to sell their own Website creator (for € 150+/year).

The most infuriating statement on their website:

Stop met het dagenlange gesleutel aan onveilige systemen als PHPnuke, Mambo, Drupal, etcetera.

Stop the tedious tweaking of insecure systems as PHPnuke, Mambo, Drupal, etcetera

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venkat-rk’s picture

Irrespective of the drupal foundation plans, perhaps it's time for drupal to call these cybersqautters to book.

OpenDomain’s picture

Yes - I know a LOT of people do not 'get' OpenDomain.Org

However, I did just get off the phone with Dries, and HE thinks it is a good idea.

OpenDomain is NOT FOR PROFIT. I have never received any donations either. I am spending tons of money for these domains. I only ask for links back to increase awareness of OpenDomain.Org

Anyone in the drupal community could have purchased this domain - why is my contribution seen wrong because it is different?

Again - I welcome your opinons, but PLEASE do not refer to OpenDomain as a squatter.

robertDouglass’s picture

I'll withold any further speculation and see what becomes of it.

- Robert Douglass

-----
My Drupal book: Building Online Communities with Drupal, phpBB and WordPress

OpenDomain’s picture

If you have any concerns - it is best to get them out in to the open now.

robertDouglass’s picture

I'm a generally optimistic and trusting type of guy. I'm completely willing to take you at your word that you're genuinely interested in helping open source. After all, the person who way trying to sell Drupal.com for $28,000 was abusing Drupal pretty badly, so maybe things have gotten better.

Let me ask you this; if we put your opendomains.org link in our footer here at Drupal.org, would you point Drupal.com here?

Peace.

- Robert Douglass

-----
My Drupal book: Building Online Communities with Drupal, phpBB and WordPress

OpenDomain’s picture

Please remove the price of Drupal.Com - we prefer if no one know how much we paid for any domain.
I purchased Drupal.Com from BuyDomains, whom acted as a broker to let me purchase it from the real owner. I have been trying to obtain this domain for over one year, but the owner kept on raising the price. With the help of a a very nice Sales Associate, Amber Burke, I was able to finally buy it.
Please note how many domains BuyDomains has. Please also note that they seem to operate legally within the laws of the US. Put another way - unless SOMEONE paid this price, there is NO way the drupal community would EVER use it. Also - it was only a matter of time before some did buy it, but NOT for the community.
I would LOVE to spread the word about http://OpenDomain.Org (notice the name - no 'S') and a LINK on drupal.Org would be great.
However, please note that we want the domain to be used, not just re-directed.
I can point the DNS to your server, but the domain should be seperate from Drupal.Org, and it should be actually used.

Zen’s picture

A few questions:

  • Are you offering to lease it to Drupal.org for a certain fixed period?
  • Is it going to be free?
  • Will the lease need to be renegotiated after every term?
  • Will this all be in writing?
  • Or will you sell the domain to somebody for $10000000000000000000000 after a year or two?
  • I'm informed that you've had similar dealings with Wordpress, but they declined to participate. What happened there?
  • And the obvious question - what's in it for you?

Basically, I and probably a number of other people

  • don't know how credible opendomain.org is..
  • don't understand your business model.
  • generally look upon the domain and domain squatting (regardless of whether you are one or not) industry with extreme disfavour and suspicion.

If altruism is your goal, then why not consider selling the domain to Drupal.org at an affordable price with a written agreement that opendomain.org be linked to in the footer and all other links carry the nofollow attribute.

This just does not compute.

Cheers,
-K

Heine’s picture

To cite Cedric Johnson (aka Mr Opendomain):

NOBODY knows 'free' is a bad business model than me. Trust me, I know.

A lot of background can be found at http://wordpress.org/support/topic/19079

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OpenDomain’s picture

This is in regards to http://Free.TV - when I developed a business with Free PVR.
However, OpenDomain does not have a 'business model' - our goal is to help Open Source, not to create profit, so it is FREE.

Heine’s picture

The following may shed some light on the rel=nofollow business.

From http://wordlog.com/archives/2005/05/19/help-needed-with-google/

I definitely know how to increase page range in Google. I founded the OpenDomain program [link] as a way to promote domains. To see, check out the some of our domain keywords: “Xaml”, “bloog”, “greylisting”, “free tv” or even “wordpress”. We would even be happy to cross link with you to promote your site.

(edit: emphasis added, link removed)
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robertDouglass’s picture

I will not remove the price I quoted. Unless you tell me that's what you paid for it, I only know that I heard from someone that it was reportedly for sale for that amount. But thanks for the confirmation.

Here's the deal, and nobody has said this anywhere that I've read so far, neither here, nor on Wordpress.org: These domains were being cybersquatted. This is something that is pretty darn rotten. But until someone went and bought drupal.com, it wasn't worth much to them, right? Well, congratulations. With $5 domain registrations, those squatters can now move on and squat on half a million other domains using the profits from drupal.com.

- Robert Douglass

-----
My Drupal book: Building Online Communities with Drupal, phpBB and WordPress

OpenDomain’s picture

I never really thought about that- in trying to help I may be encouraging the squatters in the first place. I do not know - something new to worry about.

sime’s picture

Opendomain may indeed be seeking a deal that works for Drupal. But my Spidy-senses tell me that opendomain has self-interest, so this is not philanthropy in my book. The business models are mismatched.

What opendomain is suggesting, whatever it is, might be no worse on paper than the Mambo Foundation's influence over Mambo - but that didn't stop 99% of the top contributors bailing out and starting Joomla. Decide for yourself if the analogy fits; as for me, I'm just a wary businessman with Spidy-senses.

Heine’s picture

http://base-art.net/Articles/25/ (note the last comment)

and

http://www.whois.sc/easexml.org
http://www.whois.sc/easexml.com

registred by mr opendomain from www.guaranteedconsulting.com (similar HTML skills as the webmaster from free.tv).

and this: http://www.threadwatch.org/node/4088#comment-25462 with an interesting observation about Wordpress.com:

I thought that was the angle... the squatted domains can't be monetized easily, but if they are "leased" for use by the rightful owner (the same one who would have complained if the cybersquatter used the domain) then who can complain? The monetization is back-door (backlinks in this case, on every page of every free web blog published by Matt's new free hosted WordPress... certainly worth $275k). The developed asset is retained by the squatter as well.

Wouldn't it be much harder to litigate against a squatter if you previosuly collaborated with him on a mutually beneficial venture using the domain? Sure.

(emphasis added)

Tread carefully

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robertDouglass’s picture

There is no Drupal company. You yourself repeat over and over again that people mistype and add .com instead of .org; why should those people go to a site that would confuse them into thinking that they had arrived at Drupal? You say you want to help Drupal. I'm not "The Drupal Community", but I am willing to venture a guess that many members of the Drupal community would think that pointing Drupal.com directly to Drupal.org would help the Drupal community. Making a Drupal.com site, when there *IS NO DRUPAL COMPANY* is deceptive. And it'll make us get that trademark finally and shut it down.

- Robert Douglass

-----
My Drupal book: Building Online Communities with Drupal, phpBB and WordPress

OpenDomain’s picture

I have done nothing to drupal.com but set up a default web page, but lots of people link to it or otherwise go to it. I do feel it should be used seperately, as it is too valuable to waste.
However, I am not really part of the drupal community - I am just trying to help in my own quirky way, and so I am willing to consider pointing drupal.com to drupal.org.

robertDouglass’s picture

In my opinion, the only real value that we could bring to the table at this point is to point Drupal.com to Drupal.org. Please consider what it would take for this to be an acceptable solution for you. I know you've invested a lot into this; not only money and time, but also considerable thought and excitement. Your contribution would be seen as truly magnanimous if we could find a solution along those lines.

- Robert Douglass

-----
My Drupal book: Building Online Communities with Drupal, phpBB and WordPress

OpenDomain’s picture

OpenDomain seemed like a good idea several years ago, but lately has been considerable expense and pain for me.
In fact, I recently have faced a very expensive lawsuit in regards to a domain I gave to an Open group. I have been very open about this and talked to Dries on the specifics. We hope this will be settled soon and I hope you understand I will not be able to comment on it further.
I do thank you for your kind words, and hope we can work this out. I want to make sure that I do not repeat the same mistakes that caused so much angst while I was trying to help.
I still stand by my request that it should be used as a seperate domain, but I am willing to point Drupal.Com to Drupal.Org to show good faith for now until the larger community can decide how to best use it.
Should I contact Dries again to facilate this?

robertDouglass’s picture

Drupal folk will play nice as long as you do, and even as a temporary measure, I'm sure nobody will complain if you point Drupal.com here. But still, please check with Dries. I'm just an interested 3rd party, and the only real decisions around here get made by Dries.

Thanks for being open to this possibility.

- Robert Douglass

-----
My Drupal book: Building Online Communities with Drupal, phpBB and WordPress

sire’s picture

Just to correct the quoted price, the domain name was significantly discounted in December 2005. I had been inquiring about the domain also. It's sale price at that time was much much much less.

robertDouglass’s picture

The history at WordPress is a little hard to follow. At one point, Matt Mullenweg (you know, the Dries of Wordpress) wrote this:

I think the main disagreement between Ric and myself is that I believe the domain should be used for the non-profit, free to everyone WordPress project and he wants a hand in some sort of commercial venture on top of the work of WP volunteers.

I won't quote the email publicly, but he wanted to be a "WordPress partner" with "voting power" in the direction of WordPress. I think the best course for WordPress is to continue being a open meritocracy rather than being beholden to any commercial entity. If Ryan or Dougal or someone else who has contributed significantly approached me with the same proposal I would take it much more seriously, as they've proven their committment to the core ideals of WordPress through actions over a long period of time. Until he bought the domain, I had never heard of Ric.

Also, for the record, I had contacted the squatter who had the domain before Ric but never heard back, and I also had the domain backordered so if it expired it would have gone to the project just like wordpress.net does now. If Ric wants to give (or sell) the the domain to WordPress, I'd be happy to acknowledge his contribution similar to how firefox.com is set up. Unfortunately it seems Ric's hands are tied by some sort of organizational structure in his company that prevents him from making those types of decisions.

Here's the link (it's in the same thread Heine posted):
http://wordpress.org/support/topic/19079#post-125099

That was a year ago (Jan. 28, 2005). Somewhere in the meantime, wordpress.com actually became a site where Matt posts, though it looks like on different terms than what I quoted above.

- Robert Douglass

-----
My Drupal book: Building Online Communities with Drupal, phpBB and WordPress

Zen’s picture

That was a year ago (Jan. 28, 2005). Somewhere in the meantime, wordpress.com actually became a site where Matt posts, though it looks like on different terms than what I quoted above.

A WHOIS indicates that Matt owns it now.

-K
P.S Can someone please disable all the opendomain.org links from this thread?

OpenDomain’s picture

can we have a conference call to get all this out in the air?

OpenDomain’s picture

I do feel that WordPress.Com should be used for commerical purpose (That is what .Com means). I did transfer it to Matt, and I have seen blogs that suggest Matt will offer 'extra' services for additional fees.
I did ask for 'voting power' - this was given to me as advice from a friend, but I take responsibility for the quote. The problem was the legal aspects of actually transfering the domain. I was attempting to offer limiting my involvment - it was a naive attempt, and it caused considerable backlash. I appologized for this many times.

Boris Mann’s picture

I would prefer that we just point it Drupal.org with an acknowledgement somewhere (certainly not on every page).

The shortness of the comment is because I want to track this issue.

colorado’s picture

This is an important discussion to have. I also want to track it.

ShrimpCrackers’s picture

The Firefox.com alternative is just as good, that way OpenDomains gets its maximum benefit, as does Drupal, and I think anyone can live with that. I mean the reality was that Drupal.com wasn't ours in the first place, so I suppose the situation is better than before, at least we can negotiate now.

Ric, if you could spend the time to visit www.firefox.com you'll see that there are two links on the page. It works beautifully and you'll gain the maximum benefit, as will Drupal. This is the best solution, its the only 'open' one, since everyone 'shares' the domain.

But Ric here seems to not accept any plan. How is this "OpenDomain" thing going to work when so far any reasonable ideas keeps getting shot down by him? Doesn't sound very 'open' at all. So who can we talk to above Ric? Ric should've thought about that before buying the domain, that maybe the Drupal people won't really trust him.

OpenDomain’s picture

FireFox.com WAS originally used the same manner as GetFireFox.Com is being used now. However, it looks like the domain points to THREE outbound sources.

I am not ignoring your thoughtful suggestions.
I can do as you suggest, but I do not believe it is the best way to use the domain.
I appreciate all the feedback (even the negative critiques)
I am the president of OpenDomain, but I do try to listen to my friends, so maybe you could go the them to go 'above' me. OR you could try to TALK TO ME. I posted my willingness to communicate about this, but no one nibbled.
What I am trying to tell you is that the DRUPAL _community_ should decide the best way to use the domain. I am not part of that esteemed group (yet), so my vote does not count.... except I do request that the domain actually be USED, and a re-direction does not count. I am sorry, but I believe that would be a waste.

eaton’s picture

When I started looking for information on Drupal a year and a half, maybe two years ago, I hit drupal.org. If drupal.com isn't being used, it's not being used. No loss to anyone. I understand that as the owner of the domain, you would want it in use, generating traffic, rather than sitting idle. We all have our preferences.

Ric, I'll be honest. Your OpenDomains system is little more than a creative packaging of linkfarming. Rather than setting up dozens of useless sites that point to each other, you've figured out how to get other people to create content that's valuable to a community and link back to you en masse. I'll give you points for creativity! It's a slick system. But you'll excuse us for being a rather unimpressed when you talk about the virtues of the system.

The fact that you HAVEN'T turned the domain into a pornfarm doesn't mean that you ARE doing something useful and valuable to a broader community of users. There's nothing that requires you DO something like that, but it comes off as rather disingenuous when you set yourself up as a kindhearted and selfless defender of helpless domains. I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's the truth.

--
Jeff Eaton | I heart Drupal.

--
Eaton — Partner at Autogram

OpenDomain’s picture

OpenDomain is unique in what we are doing.
From the outside, it does L@@K like a link farm, but our difference is that the only purpose is to help out as many Open groups as possible - not generate profit. That is why _I_ look on it was akin to Open Source - if I created code, I would want everyone to use it.
OpenDomain does not exist just for Drupal users. We have our own community - and you may not be familiar with it enough to judge it's virtues. I do thank you for your honesty, but it is not the 'truth' except in your opinion.
Let me underline the key points (again)
1) Drupal.Com CAN be used to help support the Drupal Community
2) The community will decide how to use it, not me (but it must be actually used)
3) I do not profit in any way, except exposure to OpenDomain
4) You do not have to trust me - I have said I may transfer the domain.
5) I have made myself and Opendomain open to the public. If I ever do something that is questionable, it will be questioned. (but please remember, I am human, and will make more mistakes - that is how I learn)

Again - I ask - where is the problem?

Boris Mann’s picture

1. Sure, it COULD. Why not point it at Drupal.org? (other than your desire, which may not match the community's?)
2. That's what the community wants (regardless of your MUST)
3. Don't care
4. Great. Transfer the domain to dries.buytaert@gmail.com please. Thanks.
5. Prior "settlements" disallow getting more information.

Thanks.

OpenDomain’s picture

Boris,
To paraphrase from your own site - http://www.bmannconsulting.com/about -
At the end of the day, I would like my project (and the domain) to be used.
I do not know that the community does not want to use Drupal.Com Frankly, some of the OpenDomain team have been concerned that the largest critics of our contribution may think that actually using Drupal.Com would foster competition for their own sites that do generate profit from using Drupal. From my point of view, it looks like founders of Bryght would be the perfect people to create a great site that the community would approve of. I am even willing to donate to Drupal to pay for the effort of building the site.
Can we rise above all the rhetoric? I challenge anyone to be devil’s advocate and argue how this can benefit the community. Look at it from my point of view – this is possibly the largest single contribution to Drupal that ANYONE has made. Why waste it?

robertDouglass’s picture

the largest critics of our contribution may think that actually using Drupal.Com would foster competition for their own sites that do generate profit from using Drupal.

This is very unlikely the case. We have a little bit more faith in Drupal and our abilities than this.

this is possibly the largest single contribution to Drupal that ANYONE has made

ROTFL.

- Robert Douglass

-----
My Drupal book: Building Online Communities with Drupal, phpBB and WordPress

OpenDomain’s picture

I think that came out wrong. I did not mean that other people have not contributed to Drupal.
When I did a quick search, I found that there were a few groups that have donated in a single contribution, with the exception of IBM. I did find that some companies that actually use Drupal have paid for parts of the conference in return for advertising opportunities.
EDIT: I was reminded Google did donate quite a princely sum. However, please note I am not a millionaire (or even a hundred-thousand-aire)

bonobo’s picture

"where is the problem?"

You have also emphasized that you do not want to make a profit. To quote one of numerous instances:

but our difference is that the only purpose is to help out as many Open groups as possible - not generate profit.

So, if OpenDomain is not interested in making any money, how exactly does this organization stay in existence? How do the bills get paid?

You say that what you are doing is "unique," but a link farm/Pyramid Scheme built on the popularity of open source projects is still a link farm/Pyramid scheme.

If OpenDomain wants to help the Drupal community, then donate the domain to Dries. You have said you are willing to do this. Please stop talking, and do it.

My skepticism arises from one simple fact: what you say doesn't make sense. You are expecting people to believe that you paid $28,000 for a domain, and that you don't want to profit from that investment. Unless you have a highly refined sense of altruism, it appears that you are working some kind of angle.

Bill

-------
http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers

OpenDomain’s picture

There have been no donations or contributions at all to OpenDomain, except from my pocket. There only significant bills are buying the domains – all of the administration is done by volunteers.
I have said that I am willing to transfer the domain, but I also have said many times that it should actually be used. Where is the plan? I am busy fighting the Trolls - as soon as someone stops bringing OpenDomain down, and starts to support what we are doing, then we can actually ACT on it.
Have you ever helped someone just because it made you feel good? Do you write code or do you know someone that contributes to Open Source? Do they have some kind on 'angle'? Is everything in YOUR life materialistic?

eaton’s picture

Look. People aren't throwing rocks at you for giving away free puppies, or something. They just have serious concerns about the restrictions you put on the domains in question and the ways in which you engage the communities you say you are here to help. According to the rules of your OpenDomain foundation, no one -- not the Drupal Foundation, not me, not Dries -- will ever be able to own Drupal.com. It's yours, f'rever and ever and ever. That's fine -- it's a free country, and you bought the domain. No harm, no foul.

But if you're such an altruist, motivated by nothing but the warm glow of knowledge that you're helping others, just point the domain to Drupal.org. It's not rocket science. But here you are, demanding that the Drupal community present you with what amounts to a business plan before you'll repoint the domain.

You are working very, very hard to create a perceived value in a particular set of previously unused domain names while keeping yourself as the gatekeeper of them. That pegs out the BS detector for anyone who's spent any time on the net, and there's nothing you can do about it. Sorry, life's tough.

--
Jeff Eaton | I heart Drupal.

--
Eaton — Partner at Autogram

OpenDomain’s picture

OpenDomain does not transfer domains because we have been screwed before. HOWEVER - I have said I will transfer the domain.
The only request I have is that it NOT JUST REDIRECTED! OpenDomain is about promoting the USE of Domains.
You do not need a business plan - just a promise that it will be used and perhaps a bi-annual review of the best way to use it.

I understand most people will regard OpenDomain as part of the very evil it was created to stamp out. I know most people will think me full of BS. It sux. However, I believe this community is enlightened and can see the good this will do.

bonobo’s picture

To repeat: donate the domain to Dries. As the guiding hand behind Drupal, I trust him to determine the best use for it.

RE

Have you ever helped someone just because it made you feel good? Do you write code or do you know someone that contributes to Open Source? Do they have some kind on 'angle'? Is everything in YOUR life materialistic?

I'll get back to you on this one. I'm busy working on a plan to cheat orphan babies out of their warm milk.

Bill

-------
http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers

OpenDomain’s picture

I agree - if there is anyone we can trust, it is Dries.
I did talk to him on the phone a few times and explain to him about OpenDomain, and we had a good repoir.
He did say that he could not just decide himself to participate in OpenDomain - he had to ask the Drupal community.

RE

Cheat orphan babies out of their warm milk

Sorry about the knee-jerk reaction on my part. It is hard when everyone accuses me of being a scammer, and no one even takes to time to contact me directly to see what OpenDomain is REALLY about.

colorado’s picture

no one even takes to time to contact me directly to see what OpenDomain is REALLY about

Do we need to contact you directly in order to see what OpenDomain is REALLY about? Is there more/different information than you have already provided in these threads?

OpenDomain’s picture

This is just my opinion of a disconnected conversation like this forum. It is hard for me to express my passion and answer every question in detail that you would desire.
You certainly do not need to do anything - but you should not judge until you do understand.
Do you feel that you have all the information you need?

gollyg’s picture

If you really want to help out Drupal you could contribute to the legal action fund above ;)

We're only a few hundred short!

OpenDomain’s picture

Any why does it point to your personal account?
Why by golly! Gee!

gollyg’s picture

A donation pointed to a personal account? Is that what you would do? Geez - you can find a 'business model' to make money out of anything!

zirvap’s picture

Let's look at some possibilities here:

1. Nobody are willing right now to put in time and effort to make something beautiful and good for Drupal based on drupal.com

=> Too bad. Time to go for next best: Point it at drupal.org, and/or give it to Dries. Hope for better use of it sometime in the future.

2. Somebody are willing to put in time and effort to make something beautiful and good for Drupal based on drupal.com, but aren't willing to do it as long as the domain is owned by a stranger on the internet who may or may not be trusted

=> I can understand if this is galling for you, but, well, would you trust a stranger on the internet enough to give him/her control over something of yours of value? (If your answer is yes, I've got some nice real estate you might be interested in buying :-) )
Solution: Give it to Dries. I'm pretty sure most of us trust him, at least as far as Drupal is concerned. (If he tries to sell me real estate I might become sceptical.)

3. Somebody are willing to put in time and effort to make something beautiful and good for Drupal based on drupal.com, and are willing to do so even if the domain is owned by a stranger on the internet who may or may not be trusted

=> That's what you would prefer, isn't it? (Your reasons for this may be benign or nefarious -- I've no way of being sure.) Nobody have come forward so far, but I suppose someone might volunteer later. While you are waiting you might as well point it at drupal.org, eh?

OpenDomain’s picture

Some people have come forward and said they are willing to help! However we would we want to make sure it something the community would prefer.
We have even stepped up to the plate and offered to donate to help pay a professional organization to help design the site.
When we all agree on a plan (that the domain be used), then I will transfer it!
The only request I have is it be used - not just 'pointed'

sime’s picture

opendomain, you guys are great!

you should transfer the domain to dries. what a great service to the open source movement, what a great idea, what a great reflection of your organisation. you know dries is going to do such amazing things with it,

trust me!

OpenDomain’s picture

:)

colorado’s picture

What does that mean?

OpenDomain’s picture

I do not know if the previous post was being facetious or sincere.
It seemed appropriate to simply reply with a non-committal happy face.

On a side note - how do I get spell checking when I post?

robertDouglass’s picture

Drupal.org doesn't offer that feature.

- Robert Douglass

-----
My Drupal book: Building Online Communities with Drupal, phpBB and WordPress

sime’s picture

It was just me adding to the absurdity of this thread. I figured the :) meant 'no offence taken'.

Zen’s picture

I'm afraid the only rhetoric I'm seeing here is yours. I've already asked questions previously that might help you to make things clear, but you have deigned to not reply.

From your last few posts:

  1. Drupal.com should be used as a separate website.
  2. The new Drupal.com should contain a link to opendomain in its footer (without all the rel="nofollow" rubbish for the rest of the links).
  3. If the above two conditions are met, you are happy to transfer the domain to Dries (for free or a reasonable amount).

Does that about sum up your current position? If that is the case, then that is _very_ kind of you, and I am sure that the community will be very grateful for your gesture. Otherwise, I think we are all wasting our collective time on this thread.

Thanks
-K

OpenDomain’s picture

I thought I did answer your questions in other posts.
The quick answer: YES!
To address each specific part:

  1. We prefer a header, but a footer is acceptable
  2. "no follow" is not rubbish - it was invented by Google, and we respect it.
  3. We will transfer it for FREE

To address the previous post:

  • This is not a lease - I will transfer it
  • Free as in Beer and Free as in Speech
  • There are no further changes to this agreement
  • It can be in writing if you prefer. I prefer simply a promise. I have never broken my word, and I trust Dries to do the right thing. Besides Dries will own the domain.
  • I do not sell domains and I have never received any benefit, monetary or otherwise, in regard to OpenDomain
  • I can not comment on WordPress, except to say it is resolved and Matt is now the owner of WordPress.Com
  • I get to contribute in a significant way

Any more questions?

OpenDomain’s picture

I hope the community has found that OpenDomain is not a scam. Several people have agreed that using the domain would be good?
Is there anyone with new objections or serious questions?
If there are no problems, I guess the next step is to contact Dries to transfer it to him...
Thank you for all your input... please keep these threads alive to help OpenDomain become sucessful.

colorado’s picture

Transfer of the domain to Dries will be an exciting development. I look forward to seeing what happens next.

OpenDomain’s picture

Does that mean you do not have any more questions?
Do you believe that the domain should be used?
How do we know if there is consensus? Is there a way to vote?

colorado’s picture

Does that mean you do not have any more questions?

Yes, I do not have any more questions.

Do you believe that the domain should be used?

Yes, of course :-)

How do we know if there is consensus? Is there a way to vote?

This is all such new territory for Open Source. While I do believe that consensus can be achieved in this situation, I don't think it's important at this point.

You have an opportunity now, as well as a responsibility. Not because you own the domain, but because you came here and started this discussion.

Your opportunity: Right now you have an audience. What you do next in this situation will likely determine the success or failure of your enterprise and reputation, once and for all, because I don't think that this discussion we're having right now in this forum is going to disappear anytime soon.

Your responsibility: Simply put -- you have made a commitment to transfer the domain to Dries, in a public forum, in writing.

I happened to agree with you about the potential for the .com domain. But I see no reason why anyone in the drupal community should worry about what you do with the domain one way or another. The community doesn't need the .com. And there appears to be plenty of folks around here passionate about protecting the drupal name from tradename terrorists.

You'll either follow through on your word or you won't. Whatever happens will be recorded and archived here for posterity.

You have the power right now. If you don't act soon, it will be too late, and any opportunities will be gone.

I realize that transferring the domain to Dries feels like a big risk. It will take courage on your part. Fortunately we all do seem to agree that Dries can be trusted. I hope you can have enough faith in yourself and in Dries to make the leap.

OpenDomain’s picture

Dires said he would love to use Drupal.Com as part of OpenDomain, but would have to check with the Drupal community first.
Also - _I_ care about that you will actually use the domain. It does not have to be right NOW, but some plan would be nice.
So..... if everyone agrees.... please reply to this comment

We are almost there!

colorado’s picture

I appreciate your eagerness and tenacity, and your desire to reach a consensus within the community. In my experience the only real and lasting value of consensus is in the process itself. Trust is earned and built through how we deal with each other along the way.

I think there has been enough of an accurate sampling of views given by the community in these forums. I also imagine that the core developers who are in Vancouver right now are consulting on the matter, and that Dries is continuing to receive input.

No matter what anyone else in the community says here, it's going to be up to trusting Dries (or not), and you're going to have to decide if you are comfortable with his decision process, as many more decisions must be made going forward.

And Dries will need to decide if he wants to take on this potentially complicated and high-maintenance responsibility, or just stay focused on development and not be distracted by this. Has Dries even agreed to accept the transfer of the domain?

If you wait for consensus, and fail to simply lead by your actions, you may find that you lose the supporters that you currently do have, by your indecisiveness.

OpenDomain’s picture

I agree to give the domain Drupal.Com to Dries Buytaert on the condition he accepts the terms of OpenDomain found at http://opendomain.org/terms/

Under the assumption that these terms are agreed upon in full, I have changed the domain registration to reflect the registrant as Dries Buytaert and will allow full use and transfer of the domain pending an email confirmation.

This offer does not obligate me in any way if is retracted which may occur at any time.

Ric Johnson
President, OpenDomain.Org

colorado’s picture

These terms?

TERMS

Terms of Use

1. These terms are subject to change and modification
2. No part of this web site or external literature is meant to be a promise of services or products, and does not obligate us in any way
3. We will work to provide free use any domain to anyone; however the Open Domain program may not be available in all areas, due to regional laws and regulations, or due to technical concerns.
4. We may not be held liable for any damages for any reason, including networking or programmatic issues that may hinder the use of some domains.
5. The domain should be used by a group most closely associated to the context of its name
6. The domain must be actively marketed and significantly used
1. Periodic content changes
2. Regular submission to search engines
3. You can not just create a ‘doorway portal’ with no actual content
7. Only one domain may be used per group
8. We would like a link on all pages
1. The link must be predominate and visible
2. The link must be part of the original HTML document and not generated by client side script (JavaScript)
3. All outbound links must be marked with the nofollow attribute. For example, all anchor tags should have rel=”nofollow” in their markup. This does NOT include the link to OpenDomain.Org
9. NO Pop-ups
10. NO automatic re-direction to other sites
11. NO objectionable content
1. No adult material
2. No defamatory comments
12. No posting of copyrighted material without proper license or written permission
13. NO SPAM
14. Your rights to use any domain end automatically if you breach these terms in any way.
15. Neither OpenDomain nor any person working for the project will be liable for any of those types of damages known as indirect, special, consequential, incidental, punitive or exemplary related to the use of the domain, to the maximum extent the law permits, no matter what legal theory it’s based on.
16. If any term of this Agreement is held by a court of competent jurisdiction to be invalid or unenforceable, then this Agreement, including all of the remaining terms, will remain in full force and effect as if such invalid or unenforceable term had never been included.
17. This Agreement shall be construed and enforced in accordance with the laws of the state of Pennsylvania, USA.

OpenDomain’s picture

These are the standard terms for OpenDomain
However, we can change it to suit this situation - for example
1) After agreement, the terms will not change
6) The domain does not have to be used right away. We can agree on a reasonable time period until the project starts up.
11) If the domain is used by multiple people, it may be hard to eliminate objectionable content, but there should be a process to limit it.

If you have any other questions, let me know

colorado’s picture

Hmm... from my reading... consensus seems to be that this is a waste of time, and to just send the lawyers after you at this point. Looks like time is running out.

varunvnair’s picture

Thanks! You have made sure that there will be no difficulty in reaching a consensus. Only problem is it will not be in your favour.

You have missed the whole point of the entire debate (or maybe you take us to be absolute fools). The primary reason for this whole discussion was because the Drupal community is NOT comfortable with your terms and conditions.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Drupal-powered Blog: ThoughtfulChaos

varunvnair’s picture

A Technorati search for 'OpenDomain' throws up lot of interesting posts centered around this topic.

I found this post (and its comments) especially relevant to the discussion we are having:
What’s with OpenDomain.org?
Don't forget to read the comments.

Note: There is a parallel discussion going on at http://drupal.org/node/46062 I think we should try and have the debate in a single place and not in multiple similar threads.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Drupal-powered Blog: ThoughtfulChaos

colorado’s picture

I started that other thread you refer to, for a specific purpose. But I won't object to merging them at this point if folks think it makes sense.

Thanks to everyone for the time and effort put in to the discussion-- it looks like its resolved (fingers crossed).

OpenDomain’s picture

It has been hard trying to keep replying on multiple threads, especially because the posts can are not sequential.
Are you refering to my last post: I also hope this will be resolved soon!

OpenDomain’s picture

I can not edit the comments on this site, but the matter related to the comments HAS BEEN RESOLVED!
Also, I was quite open and honest with every detail about this with Dries (when I could talk about it). Please ask him for further details, but I can not comment on it now.

colorado’s picture

Silly, no one can (or does) edit the comments on this site (except for their own of course). I'll send Dries a message and ask him what he thinks.

I don't know what this particular forum is for, does anyone know what that means, "Community plumbing"? Are these "overlapping threads" even in the proper discussion forum?

Phillip Mc’s picture

is there any way to ignore threads?

this discussion is bordering on the ridiculous.

the guy who is running drupal.com obviously has a very fixed agenda that is all about "me, me, me" rather than the Drupal community.

he's trying to bring the mountain to mohammed, not the other way around.

you can't argue or reason with that sort of logic.

As a counter offer to try and resolve this. I'll volunteer to build a drupal site for any lawyers out there in return for doing the legal work to reclaim the domain - which can be done.

Philk.

sprite’s picture

The opendomain people must simply transfer the drupal.com domain to drupal.org immediately. They do not have any title to it.

1) opendomain's hijacking of drupal.com violates the federal cybersquatting statute.

2) opendomain's holding of the domain violates the drupal trademark.

3) ICANN would force opendomain to tranfer the drupal.com domain to drupal.org in a domain resolution tribuna.

4) Any and every U.S. District Court in the would also order opendomain to transfer the drupal.com domain to drupal.org based on the anti cybersquatting statutes, trademark law, and ICANN domain policy.

Hey opendomain - just transfer drupal.com to drupal.org right now and save your self the time and money.

spritefully yours

spritefully yours
Technical assistance provided to the Drupal community on my own time ...
Thank yous appreciated ...

sire’s picture

Drupal.org obviously has a long-term prior use and I would suggest contacting a good domain attorney rather than bargain. Members of the Drupal community had been trying to purchase this domain for the community, before it was snagged when the price dropped by Opendomains.

I would highly suggest some inquiries made by email just to see what Dries options are to any of these:

http://www.esqwire.com/
http://www.johnberryhill.com/
http://www.aplegal.com/
http://www.neulaw.com/
http://www.mediaesq.com/

A WIPO dispute could bring this domain back home, where it belongs.

gollyg’s picture

And I certainly hope no form of agreement or business relationship is entered into in the meantime, as it may make any proceedings more difficult.

colorado’s picture

That is an excellent point.

patrickharris’s picture

the domain should be donated to drupal.org. I don't see what benefit drupal gains from the .com being pointed to .org. What's the big deal? And why have there been long and intense discussions about it?

The answer is clear - donate it, or be damned.

handelaar’s picture

...but it appears that Drupal.com was fully transferred to Dries Buytaert on Wednesday last, and its primary nameservers are now at the OSL.

I have no information to impart about what Dries will be doing with it.