By colorado on
This new topic is to provide a space for a specific discussion regarding what to do (or not) about the domain drupal.com. Pursuant to that, I have a number of questions that may or may not be related, or even relevant. Rather than listing all of them in this one post, I'd like to post each question, one at a time, as its own thread within this topic.
For reference and prior related discussion please see:
Comments
And See
And see:
http://drupal.org/node/44799
Why do anything?
I'm no lawyer and each country is a little different with their laws...but I don't see any copyright or trademark issues with their site (as viewed on January 23, 2006). Now if they started displaying the Drupal logo or made their site look like it was representing Drupal.org...than Drupal.org could possibly claim trademark infringement.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like what they're doing. IMHO I think someone would be foolish to take them up on their offer.
-Bryan
Edited: I reread the threads (especially the second one). Colorado...so we don't repeat discussion on those threads, exactly what is the specific question that you want answered?
Drupal Blog (on WordPress) at:
Like that Idea
New SMF Site:
WebCMS Forum
My intention in starting a
My intention in starting a new topic is to discuss specifically how the domain name drupal.com might actually be used, separate from the discussion about OpenDomain and their general business model and strategies. I'd also like to provide a more respectful environment for discussion, and try to avoid the judgement and name-calling propagated in the previous topic.
How could we put the domain to work FOR the community?
I would like to better understand the concerns of the drupal core developers (those who actually contribute and manage the code), since I am not a coder. Drupal, and this community would be nothing without your genius, your hard work, and your sense of commitment and ownership. You are the architects, and the heart and soul of this community. And like it or not, we look to you for leadership.
I have noticed that actually quite a lot of business is conducted through drupal.org. How many members of this community (including the core developers) do not profit off of the drupal tradename - don't we all gain/seek benefit from it in one way or another?
I've gathered that the owner of this domain would prefer that the domain be used somehow by, or for, the betterment/advancement of the community. As a businessman he must realize that his return on investment depends on it, and so far he seems willing to consider input from the community.
OpenDomain, you have obviously put a lot of thought into this already. What ideas have you had for how the drupal community (or an individual site developer) could benefit from using this domain? Please be as specific as possible.
Thank you.
Drupal.com
Personally this whole thing makes me uneasy.
Why would the Drupal community need the .com domain?
If he's such a nice guy I why doesn't he just?
- Redirect the Drupal.com website to Drupal.org
- Donate the domain as a gesture of good will.
- Do whatever you want with it but link to the Drupal.org page on the frontpage.
Why some people would have a problem with using "OpenDomains" I'll guess:
- Having the domain paid and run by someone who's not a member of the community just makes me uneasy.
- Where's the control? Promising you won't "yank" it doesn't provider much comfort.
Personally I'd just leave this one alone. Drupal.org is a good enough domain, at least the Drupal foundation owns it.
There is no Drupal Foundation
That's part of the problem.
- Robert Douglass
-----
My Drupal book: Building Online Communities with Drupal, phpBB and WordPress
What to use is not hard
There are about a million vaguely commercial things that *could* be done with a Drupal.com domain. e.g.
* Run a directory of consultants, developers, and themers
* run a marketplace for buying/selling Drupal-related services
etc.
etc.
Except...who would run it? The entire Drupal community barely has enough time to keep up and improve Drupal.org.
As I said in the other thread, pointing it at Drupal.org is the only thing that the community would actuall have time for and find useful, at this point.
Agree
If Ric wanted to use Drupal to make a paid directory of Drupal consultants and make money using Drupal.com in a straightforward, Drupal-friendly way, who would complain? Not me.
Ric, if you have any questions about how to use Drupal to make a site that would help people find and hire Drupal consultants, don't hesitate to ask. Or, find someone here to hire to do it. Make it a business venture. Be straightforward. If you helped make it easier for potential consultants and potential customers to hook up, you'd be helping open source. Furthermore, Drupal is great software for doing something like this.
- Robert Douglass
-----
My Drupal book: Building Online Communities with Drupal, phpBB and WordPress
I also agree
With (and only with) the blessing of drupal core developers, I would be interested in working on this, to make a little money, and maybe even more importantly, to be involved in a process of inventing a new cooperative business model that, if successful, can be an example for others.
My strengths are in business development, themeing and graphics. I can install and admin/manage a drupal site but would at minimum need a coder (who could also be paid out of the profits) for some de-bugging help on an ongoing basis.
I would also think it fair and good faith business that a percentage of the profits be donated to drupal.org.
I am not a drupal user (yet)
While I consider myself a strong developer (25+ years), I am a not (yet) part of the Drupal community.
I think this is a great idea of how the drupal.com domain could be used and it probably should be used as a .Com(mercial) site.
However, I want the community to decide. And if they decide to use it to promote Drupal, I am not the best person to run the site.
Do not get me wrong - I think Drupal is kewl and Dries was very nice on the phone, but I have yet to write a PHP app. I hope to become part of this community, but that does not mean anyone else you trust can not run at a site to promote Drupal.
It can be as simple as a bunch of paid banner ads that donate to drupal.org, though even that will take some management.
I founded OpenDomain when I purchased one of the most expensive domains in history because I felt I HAD to (see http://www.businesswire.com/webbox/bw.082100/202342133.htm )
A few lessons I learned:
1) Most people use search to find when they are not sure of what that want, but after they learn a keyword they assume .Com and then .Org
2) Content is KING
3) Community is 2nd
What does this mean?
Drupal.Com SHOULD be used as a separate entity from .Org
It CAN help support the drupal community
It will take a volunteer some time to support this, and I should not do that.
This is just a suggestion - OpenDomain is not for profit and so I would also prefer this to start as a volunteer effort, with 100% going to drupal.org, or I would at least like to request that the numbers be tracked.
Mmm...
Mmm...
I get the impression that you are hoping someone else will come up with a business plan. It would be helpful if you would propose at least one business plan, at least as a starting point for discussion, including specifically what each participating party would contribute, and how each would benefit (including OpenDomain). Surely you have thought a lot about this considering how much time and money you have spent in acquiring the domain.
As I'm sure you are aware, the idea of intermixing/integrating open-source communities and business goes generally "against the grain". This makes it even more important to be specific, because there is very little "prior art" in this area, and we are all inventing as we go.
Also, I noticed a number of earlier questions, and in reading through the threads I couldn't find the responses:
http://drupal.org/node/43660#comment-84315
Thank you :-)
I do not think you understand
We are 'OPEN SOURCE for DOMAINS'
What that means is that our domains should be used to promote Open Source. We let anyone sign up, and they can even generate a profit, but they should participate in an Open community.
It also means that we prefer not to restrict how the domain is used. When an Open Source developer writes some code, and puts it out for free use, she may be amazed how people will use it in ways never imagined.
I have spent more than six years on OpenDomain, and lots of money. There have been some really great users of OpenDomain, but most do not do well, so I have quite a lot of experience. Please remember - we are NOT FOR PROFIT, so there is no need for us to 'benefit'.
A business venture should not be looked down upon - it seems Bryght is doing a great job supporting drupal.
There is no 'prior art' - Open Domain is the only group contributing domains as far as I know - although there have been individual domains such as FireFox.Com from Kevin Karpenske.
There have been some really
Could you please talk more about this? Maybe give an example of the really great users? And your thoughts about why most don't do well?
Thank you.
and Wordpress.com?
I don't think the community can continue without hearing what happened with Wordpress.com. Every mention of that domain has disappeared from the opnedomain site, which is really strange given it was a "success story" a few days ago.
This is resolved
I can not comment on this except to say it has been resolved
Not open source
This doesn't make any sense. If I walk into Microsoft and take the source code to Windows, then decide to make it available to people if they agree to my terms, I'm not doing "OPEN SOURCE". I didn't create any of the value. I'm just stealing.
To be fair, I could see "open source for domains" being true if you brainstormed unused names and then projects could come use them for something new. However buying the name of an existing project, particularly one as old as Drupal, is just riding the coattails of the hard work Drupal devs have done and trying to profit off it. Please don't call it open source, that's insulting to people who actually care about what that means.
Incidentally, open source generally doesn't have terms dictating commercial usage or not.
On the bright side, when the Drupal foundation gets its tax-exempt status you could donate the domain to Drupal and deduct the 28k you paid for it. (I think.)
I agree
What is the big deal with pointing drupal.com to drupal.org? Surely this would just confuse people. Who wants or needs this?
If the domain was donated to drupal.org, then it might be a different story.
You are wrong
I did not steal anything - I am trying to contribute.
There are many people using Drupal for free and there are many developers contributing to Drupal for Free.
There are also people making money using drupal.
Whom am I hurting? How?
Can Drupal.com be used in a benficial way? YES
Can it help support the community? YES
Do I or OpenDomain profit from it in any way? NO!!!!!!
I admit I am not expereinced in Open Source, but it was my understanding there are several different projects with specific terms.
You're right here, Ric
You've done nothing wrong or offensive concerning Drupal.com. The problem is that the best solution would just be to make Drupal.com go away. Its status as an unsold cybersquatted domain was irritating but not problematic because it was in essence out of commission and not being used.
Now you step in and offer help in a way that requires a level of trust from those whom you are helping. People need to trust that you have no ulterior motive (you've reassured us all you can), that their efforts won't be used for something they weren't intended for, that the product of their efforts belongs to them and basically that it will all work out as if you don't even exist (because that's the only role anybody is going to willingly allot to a third party when it comes to the domain on which you build a site).
If you would, for all of eternity and beyond, be happy to receive the occasional "Thank you" email and perhaps some chocolate covered cherries at Christmas, and never had demands or never tried to sway or manipulate the workings of the site or the project with which the site is affiliated with, then we could start discussion about who should use Drupal.com and for what. But we haven't cleared the first hurdles. The debacle with Wordpress.com doesn't help.
It also doesn't help that the whole name of the project, OpenDomain, is rather suspicious. How can you "Open" anything that is inherently *not*? There is no source code involved in domains and drawing analogies to anything you can do with them is impossible. The only thing that comes close, in terms of analogies, is vendor lock-in (which is one of the things Open Source tries to avoid). In this case the vendor is the domain registrar. When I go register a domain at GoDaddy, I can have it transferred to Registrar.com any time I want (this would be like open source, kind of.) With Drupal.com you've got domain registrar lock-in because I bet there is no way that you're going to let me decide who the registrar is. Not to mention the DNS settings. So counter to feeling "open" in any way, using Drupal.com under your terms would feel much more like vendor lock-in than any of the people who run sites with Drupal are used to. Who is going to want to have to call you up any time they want to add a subdomain, after all?
As I'm interested in seeing the situation resolve without any ugly conflicts, I'm glad that you come here and state your views openly and respond to questions and criticisms. I would suggest to you, however, that your current approach is not likely to bring you or any open source community much joy. You're offering a gift that people either don't want, or can't accept in the form offered. I strongly suggest that you change your strategy. It would clear the air and make the whole interaction more straightforward.
My top suggestions are:
One last problem with your strategy: the approach that you have now is scaring away all of the genuine, honest and helpful people who make Drupal special (see issues about trust above). That means it is only a matter of time before someone approaches you with an idea for a site to make on Drupal.com that sounds (to you) like exactly the site that the Drupal community is looking for. But unforeseen to you, that person has their own ulterior motives for getting hold of such prime real estate. Then we'll really be upset. You'll be enabling the abuse of Drupal.com and we (I use the term 'we' rhetorically because I only speak for myself) won't be able to do a thing about it.
cheers,
- Robert Douglass
-----
My Drupal book: Building Online Communities with Drupal, phpBB and WordPress
I am still trying to help
Robert,
Thank you for the considered comment.
You have hit the nail on the head - what I am doing is too radical and the community has no reason to trust me. I know alot of people think of me as a bad guy. This is the most frustrating part of OpenDomain, and for trying to help! Some days, I just want to quit the damn project and ignore Open Source completely. Since I founded OpenDomain six years ago, I have made mistakes, and I have learned some painful lessons. But I try to stand true to the ideals.
'Debacle' is a strong word. Let me assure you that all issues have been resolved. In the end, everything worked out for the best.
Choosing a brand identity was hard for this project. We could have picked ‘Free’, but I did not want it to be confused with my other project. It _IS_ open – open to everyone to use a domain. It also (indirectly) supports Open Source, but I agree it has nothing to do with actual code. I like ‘OpenDomain’ – let us leave it at that.
Let me address your suggestions directly:
1) I am not an accountant, but I do not believe it is possible to donate the domain to Dries and get a tax write off.
2) I strongly disagree with simply redirecting. It SHOULD be used
3) I can not make a business venture out of drupal.com.
Let me offer a counter proposal:
1) I may be willing to transfer drupal.com to Dries to alleviate the main concerns of the community. However, I would like to promote OpenDomain (a link, press release, etc)
2) You (or anyone else) can develop the domain that the community would approve of and that will help support Drupal.
I am also very interested in resolving this. Email and web postings are too hard to answer everyone’s questions. Can anyone suggest a way we can setup a conference call with the stakeholders? I have never tried to hide my identity – I live in the US, and my contact info can be found on Free.TV
Your credibility is low with me
from your TERMS:
"We would like a link on all pages
The link must be predominate and visible
The link must be part of the original HTML document and not generated by client side script (JavaScript)
All outbound links must be marked with the nofollow attribute. For example, all anchor tags should have rel=”nofollow” in their markup. This does NOT include the link to OpenDomain.Org"
is not consistent with
"Do I or OpenDomain profit from it in any way? NO!!!!!!"
I can't find anything you propose of benefit to drupal users or developers.
Can you comment on this Ric?
Ric, the terms and your statement below seem to be incompatible with the 'no profit' statement. Can you please comment on this?
From http://wordlog.com/archives/2005/05/19/help-needed-with-google/
(emphasis added)
--
Tips for posting to the forums.
When your problem is solved, please post a follow-up to the thread you started.
open DOMAIN
OpenDomain was founded on two principles
1) Open - open for all and free to use
2) Domain - the study of the use of domains and search
To this day, when I tell someone about 'Free DOT TV', they automatically go to .Com. We do not promote any domain ourselves - we allow all content to be created by the user.
However, we do extensive checking to make sure OpenDomain users are not abusing the system. From this analysis, we have learned what works to promote your site. We are willing to share this information for free for Open groups as long as they do not SPAM
Yikes!
Now this is really getting funny.
Very early on when the first post in this thread was posted I was of the opinion that you genuinely wanted to help but were going about it the wrong way. However after reading a number of posts (here and elsewhere) I am convinced that using Drupal.com on your terms is not sensible and your intentions are somehow not all that goody goody.
Throughout this discussion (and similar discussions regarding other 'open domains') you have thrown out 1 reason after another why you are behaving the way you are. It all started off as a way to 'contribute' to open source projects, somewhere along the line I read about a commercial venture around an open domain and now this brand-new "study of the use of domains and search" reason.
It is almost comical. How exactly do you intend to study of the use of domains and search? And are you insinuating that you called off the agreement with WP regarding the use of wordpress.com due to the articles that were hosted at wordpress.org to manipulate Google AdWords?
I think you just made your stand all the more suspect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Drupal-powered Blog: ThoughtfulChaos
This is strange
Are you suggesting Matt Mullenweg is a spammer and you shouldn't have donated the domain to him? Are you suggesting that he spams now? Considering he runs an anti-spam service, that's a pretty heavy insinuation.
Do you worry that Dries might ever make a mistake?
Did you donate the domain before or after that incident, it looks like WordPress.com went online about 6 month after the wordpress.org articles thing.
I'm not sure what you think dissing other open source project leaders will get you, especially ones that are well-respected in the Drupal community like Mullenweg.
I Learn from my mistakes
The fact that Matt made a mistake is a matter of public record. He admited it, and we all moved on.
I also have made mistakes with OpenDomain - I hope this community can see that I am still trying to do the right thing for Drupal.Com and we can all work it out.
Dries is a great guy, but he is human and so he will make a mistake. What counts is to fix the problem and learn from it.
See my many other posts that this matter has been resolved for the best. I can not comment more specifically.
My relationship with Matt does not have to do anything to do with Drupal. However, I still use WordPress for OpenDomain because I think it is great software. Maybe when I learn Drupal, I will switch over.
OpenDomain == scam artist
You didn't steal anything -- or at least, nothing that the law enforcement community has yet to indict you with stealing. But you did expropriate the Drupal name for your own use and benefit.
The hysterical argumentation style and bad English just reinforces the image.
If you really want to help, you can: just transfer the name to us. Anything less certifies you as someone looking to profit from it in some way.
Long lost cousin
Whoa, B-I-G words!
Expropriate
I paid for Drupal.Com with the intent for the community to use it. I did not TAKE it by force, and I do NOT profit from it.
Hysterical
Did I tell a joke? What part did you find so funny?
Argumentation
This is actually a new word to me. Did you get it from Reader digest or your Word-A-Day Calendar?
Perhaps I should use a spell checker, but you should debate about the ISSUE instead of attacking my character.
I hear what you're saying
but it just doesn't add up.
How are you trying to contribute? Many people have specified ways to contribute that would be helpful to the community, yet you haven't acted on anything at this point.
You went out of your way (and paid a fair amount of coin) to acquire the domain, which simply raises the question, why?
Your unwillingness to explain what seems to be some ugliness with the Wordpress community is also not reassuring.
While you ask a lot of rhetorical questions:
you never seem to actually do anything that could be considered a contribution to the community.
Some specific action based on the feedback from this thread, or, better yet, after consulting with Dries, would go a long way toward making your OpenDomain program seem like less of a Ponzi scheme.
Bill
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers
-------
http://www.funnymonkey.com
I DID explain
I did talk to Dries - and he thought it was a good idea.
People contribute in different ways. Spending coin to help buy assets is one way. Drupal.Org is hosted on servers from just that type of contribution.
I never heard of a 'Ponzi Scheme', but did find it on Google. However, I am confused on your use compared to OpenDomain. How do you see what I am doing as related to a pyramid?
RE OpenDomain and Ponzi Schemes
I was using it generally -- a Ponzi scheme/pyramid scheme (not the same thing, btw -- the etymology is different) indicates any type of dealing where one person sets themselves up to profit off the work of people below them in the pyramid -- in this case, the top of the pyramid would be OpenDomain.com, and the people on the lower levels of the pyramid would be the good folks who actually get space through OpenDomain, and are forced to promote the company as the price of OpenDomain's "generosity."
It's simple: less talk. More action.
If you want to contribute, then contribute. But all this prattle about wanting to contribute in the absence of any contribution rings hollow.
I would love to be wrong on this. I would love to see your professed good intentions manifested in action. But until I see it, I'll have a hard time believing it. Your words lack consistency.
Bill
-------
http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers
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http://www.funnymonkey.com
Talk is Good
I was told a decision on Drupal.Com can not be made until a meeting can be set up. This also hinges on certain decisions on an official drupla organization structure. These may be resolved at DrupalCon in VanCouver next week.
However, I do want to have this discussion. I could simply not post anything and use domains for nefarious purposes. Instead, I am trying to learn and make OpenDomain a stronger project. There is no one else doing anything like OpenDomain.
What would you propose that would satisfy you? What actions exactly are you looking for. If anyone wished to discuss, I am available by phone
Any of these would do it
As seen above
FWIW, if you were going to implement 4, you would need to allow for user voting/rating -- this would add value to the site, and attract more reputable developers.
RE:
Pointing drupal.com at drupal.org certainly doesn't hinge on any decisions about Drupal's organizational structure. This is precisely what I mean when I refer to less talk, more action, and inconsistencies between what you say and what you do. This would be a small, immediate gesture that would immediately benefit the community and reassure people of your good intentions. It could even be done with the idea that this was a temporary step while the eventual use of drupal.com is worked out.
By all means, make some money off your investment, for either your own personal enrichment or to strengthen your OpenDomain venture. But, please, do it in a way that benefits the community, rather than exploits it.
Bill
-------
http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers
-------
http://www.funnymonkey.com
Interesting enough, this
Interesting enough, this seems to be the result of the dispute under WordPress.com:
Do we really want to use the Drupal reputation to endorse OpenDomain?
Taken from this comment referenced in another thread, and on a post about another domain OpenDomain has liberated.
Have we seen any public statements from any other high-profile OpenDomain users? A public statement from Peter Saint Andre or Matt Mullenweg would clear things up immensely. Was Matt at Drupalcon in Vancouver?
Everything worked out for the best
Unfortunately, neither I nor Matt can make public statements, except to say it has been resolved! You may contact Dries or Peter St. Andre for more information.
Here are some references and quotes:
Glen Stansberry (blogroll.net): "What a great idea! This is an awesome concept and I hope you all do well through it."
Matthew Evans (bloog.com): "OpenDomain is making significant contributions to those of us who work to make the Internet easier to use."
Glen Sollors (MobiForm.Com): "OpenDomain has been instrumental in helping XAML.net exceed its goals."
Miguel Paraz (JavaOpen.Net) "Thanks to OpenDomain, I have a domain appropriate for my sharing blog."
Peter St. Andre (Xmpp.Org) "OpenDomain's generous contribution of the XMPP.com, XMPP.net, and XMPP.org domains will enable us to offer valuable services related to these technologies"
We are also in the process of working with Manna Energy on Manna.Org to promote renewable resources, and PaRelay.Net on 711.org for the Hearing impaired.
I can also give you a long list of very large offers from other people to buy domains, but we have never sold any!
The bottom line:
If you still do not trust me - you do not have to! I will transfer the domain to Dries. All I ask help to spread the word about OpenDomain (a web link, press release) and that the domain actually be used.
OpenDomain seems similar
I was looking for a professional groups to setup Drupal, and I found your website:
funnymonkey
It says in your terms that you require a link to your domain. We simply ask for the same! No monkey business!
Not at all similar
You are referring to documentation I have created and distributed for free on my web site. If you had taken the time to go through the site, you would have seen that the modules we created are licensed under the GPL, and can be used freely, by anyone, with no attribution or links.
Our documentation is licenced under a Creative Commons license.
To give the exact language from our site:
To spell it out for you: nonprofits (ie schools) can use our documentation free of charge, and without providing any links to our site. We ask that we are credited as the original author.
For-profit entities (ie, people who seek to make a profit) can also use our documentation for free. However, if someone is making a profit off our work, we require that the profit-making entity link to our site. It doesn't need to be a header, a footer, present on every page, or any of the other nonsense you lay out -- it can be discreet. If someone is making money from documentation that we distribute for free, we ask for recognition as the people who created the documentation.
This is all clearly in line with the terms of the Creative Commons license. Also, we have created sites for clients with no links back to our site.
To make things clear: I create tools that people can use. I am an educational consultant. In that work, I provide tools -- some of them Drupal-based -- to educators. I get paid for that.
See -- that's what I do. It's easy to explain -- it took 30 words.
In all your responses, you have yet to explain what you do. And you don't have to. But, don't expect people to trust you until you can explain your "service" in a way that makes sense.
And, by all means, do not compare FunnyMonkey to OpenDomain. No similarity exists between my company and your organization. To imply any overlap is fundamentally dishonest.
And, with this post, I'm done with you. In choosing to respond to you, I have taken time away from things that are far more important. I wish you the best of luck in your pyramid scheme/link farm.
Cheers,
Bill
-------
http://www.funnymonkey.com
Tools for Teachers
-------
http://www.funnymonkey.com
Don't go Bananas
I was showing that asking for a link was not new request.
There is no equivalent Creative Commons for anything like OpenDomain.
If you had taken the time to go though my posts and OpenDomain.Org you would have seen I explained what we do many times.
You choose to make the long post - and it may have enlightened users to your project, so what is the big deal?
I was not implying any relation - I was drawing an analogy.
By all means, do not refer to OpenDomain as a pyramid scheme / link farm.
As of this post, I am still Open minded and open to constructive criticism just as I was taught by my fantastic teachers.
OpenDomain.org now has only a single post
OpenDomain.org earlier had many posts. Snippets of some of these can still be found in Technorati and Google BlogSearch. These pages no longer exist. The only pages are a single post on the front page and the pages about Success Stories, Terms, list of Free Domains etc.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Drupal-powered Blog: ThoughtfulChaos
Thank you for bringing this up
We moved our servers, and it looks like not all the data migrated.
We will be trying get the backup on line soon, and we recently added a new skin - how do you like it?
I liked the old skin more
The current skin does not appeal to me much. It is too brown, visual contrast is poor, it is visually heavy and font selection leaves a lot to be desired for. The fonts the too small and the contrast between the background colour and font colour is very low.
The icons on the top right that allow text resizing, text alignment etc. are a nice touch though.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Drupal-powered Blog: ThoughtfulChaos
This is the Jakarta theme
By Jose Mulia
Sorry
Dear Bill,
I would just like to apologize for the recent post on Drupal.Com
I did not mean to say that your project was related to OpenDomain.
I do value your opinion, even if you do not agree about OpenDomain.
Thank you for your comments
Ric Johnson
there is no need for us to
there is no need for us to 'benefit'.
However, at wordlog.com you stated your reason for founding Opendomain was to increase google pagerank to your sites and promote your domains.
Not quite
I do promote OpenDomain, which allows me to help other groups that may want a domain, but not for profit and I do not want to increase pagerank.
OpenDomain at it's core is actually about the opposite of Search Engine Optimization. In SEO, it does not matter what the domain is. For example AReallyLongDomainWithAKeyTerm.TV is actually better in some cases. However, OpenDomain is about short domains - people do find topics originally by search, and then it is up to the user of a domain to build the brand so visitors can tell people about it.
I think so
I wrote up a big proposal to that effect in an earlier dicussion when folk were ranting that there was no way a .com was .compatable with the aims of the .community.
But the interweb ate it, and I gave up and went to sleep.
I think that to pull Drupal out of the hive of busy little geeks and into the corporate world, where it increasingly has a place, and is actually being used by paying clients, a flashier, more rah-rah, and above all professional image could be cultivated.
Using .com for commercial developers to flaunt their wares, services, and (dare I say it) make money from modules of their own is not unthinkable.
I'm really sorry that OpenDomains is getting such a pasting here - He's shown himself to be more than willing to enter into negotiation to find a solution that fits within both our ideals.
The outright hostility in unjustified - If he was a true cybersquatter that had just set up a bunch of redirects to porn sites, everyone would have just shrugged and ignored it in disappointment.
Instead he tries to find a way to work with the community (but not at a loss) and you have the chance to complain and complain in person.
Look, the only objection to using that site is the requirement for linking. It's probably an effective business model, what it would do to googlerank. nofollow would skew the real world slightly.
But that's the business trade-off. It's not reasonable to expect someone to lose out in return for providing a service and yes, making Drupal.com an obvious site where people could find information about Drupal IS a service!
So lose the rhetoric and holier-than-thou 'freedom' BS, and decide, is this trade-off (a bit of funny business with search engine results) worth the gain (an easily accessable branch of the Drupal movement)
.dan.
http://www.coders.co.nz/
.dan. is the New Zealand Drupal Developer working on Government Web Standards
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
Dan,
I HAS been hard to fighting all the naysayers, and it is nice to hear someone take the other view.
I will admit MY rhetoric:
OpenDomain does not actually CREATE anything. However we are trying to help.
We ARE interested in people find out about our project, but we are not in this for the pageRank or other search engine 'funny business'. The 'no follow' requirement on our terms are to prevent too many links, and this may not be required in this case.
I DO have a model - I want people to understand what OpenDomain is about, and so I ask for different methods of exposure (linking, press releases, forums like this one).
We are NOT an official charity (yet), but please note that I have not received any monies personally or for OpenDomain. I am not talking about total net is a loss - I mean I have never made even $1 in gross. No donations, no contributions, no selling any assets, no deals where I received any 'considerations'. Nothing.
more confusion
And then what?
~~~
Too many links to what? How does that affect you/OpenDomain anyway?
~~~
I am having lot of difficulty in understanding what OpenDomain is all about. I don't need multiple sources of exposure... what I need is a simple comprehensible, sensible and believable explanation of the entire thing.
And anyways what you are talking about is not a model at all. More publicity but towards what end?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Drupal-powered Blog: ThoughtfulChaos
Contact me
Feel free to contact me if you have any questions understanding OpenDomain
To quote Varun
That constitutes a question. Why not post an answer here? I think more people on this forum are interested (I am).
--
Tips for posting to the forums.
When your problem is solved, please post a follow-up to the thread you started.
I have been posting
I am not a professional writer. I am afraid my prose will not be able to clarify every single detail. Sometimes I have posted several times around the same topic, and still find myself unable to truly reach the community.
To answer:
OpenDomain wants to promote the use of domains, and so we do not want a domain to be used just as a link farm. Too many links just raises the noise without providing value to a person browsing to the domain.
?
And what does nofollow have to do with the amount of links?
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Nothing
"nofollow" does not have anything to do with the amount of links. It just is that when a page exists just to contain a bunch of links, most times I feel it is a link farm.
On the other hand, when some creates a blogroll or provides a set of related links with their personal comments, it can be more valuable than any search engine.
nofollow is for bots not for humans
nofollow is for search engine bots, not for humans.
Assume that a page has 10 links. As a human who is viewing that page what difference is it going to make whether any of those links have nofollow?
Your argument makes absolutely no sense.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Drupal-powered Blog: ThoughtfulChaos
What agruement
Both these issues relate to links:
1) We ask that people use "nofollow" on most links
2) We ask that they do not use too many links
They are not inter-related with each other except that they deal with links.
Contradiction
Compare (answering a question on rel=nofollow)
with (on nofollow and too many links):
It seems we're back to the question: why rel=nofollow on links?
--
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When your problem is solved, please post a follow-up to the thread you started.
NOW I understand
I am sorry! I thought you were being obtuse on purpose.
We do not specify exactly how many links because that would be too constraining – instead we ask that they put “nofollow” on the links. This removes the benefit of adding links to game search engine position, and so helps prevent people put up a link farm.
Is this clear now?
Too many links to what? How
Too many links to what? How does that affect you/OpenDomain anyway?
Simple. He doesn't want the pagerank diluted as it is used to promote his domains. By limiting outgoing links and using nofollow tags except for his own link, it gives him a concentrated rank.
Look at the history
The situation, especially with WordPress.com is VERY suspect (see the other thread for more info).
Dan -- we absolutely agree that someone certainly *could* run some sort of commercial-focused something-or-other at Drupal.com. So...go for it. Why bug us about it? He bought the domain...
We had NO problems when it was owned by a squatter. Now OpenDomain pops up, buys the domain, and says we (the community? someone?) must do something with it.
Robert Douglass' comment about validating domain squatting is spot on....the domain was worthless until it was bought for a large sum of money.
I think the community has been pretty clear...point the domain at Drupal.org, we'll post a nice thank you, and that's that. And no, *I* certainly don't think the trade-off is worthwhile.
I think it would be a waste
Boris,
In one way, you are right.
You could look at OpenDomain as simply somebody that owns Drupal.Com, and if the Drupal community does not want to use it - why do anything? You could look at me as maybe a 'lesser evil' because I am out in the open, but that gives you no explicit reason to trust me, especially when there seems to be a lot of bad press.
Let me address the trust issue:
I have made OpenDomain very public, and I am very accessible. I make my living working on computers, why would I risk it? To see the real ugly, see what is going on at dropal.com or druple.com
I have stated that _I_ do not want to develop the domain myself, even though several posters and Dries himself have suggested that I should.
WordPress.Com is now public record, and it has been resolved!
I have even stated that I may be willing to transfer the domain to Dries.
Now if you can get past thinking OpenDomain is some sort of scheme, let us move on to seeing if you SHOULD use it.
You are correct: The community does not HAVE to do something.
However, you cannot argue that IF they did use it, it could help support Drupal.
A lot of people have suggested that we point the domain to drupal.org - and I believe that would be a waste. Try to think of it as if IBM contributed TWO servers. Yes, you could simply use one as a back up, but you could also use the extra to directly benefit the project.
The real problem is one of "community", and I admit I do not fully understand it. It seems to me that the root is that '.Com' is commercials, and a lot of people do not want to confuse the message about Drupal.Org. I am an outsider, so when I look at the companies offering services related to Drupal, I see a business model that can directly support the community. I agree it would take some consideration to make sure the Drupal message does not become confusing, but that is a reason why you SHOULD use the domain. And, yes, actually developing Drupal.Com would take some effort that could be spent on the core, but there have been a few volunteers that are willing to do it.
off topic
well, its kind of off topic but maybe you guys could just install trip search http://drupal.org/project/trip_search on that domain and slave connect it to main database.
nova days looking for stuff in drupal.org takes ages...
___
Obin.org - Independent media workshop
When Drupal.org goes to 4.7
you'll see much better search results. Patience.
- Robert Douglass
-----
My Drupal book: Building Online Communities with Drupal, phpBB and WordPress
second off topic
thanx a lote for all your grait work !!!
___
Obin.org - Independent media workshop
jsut tracking
just tracking
Tracking?
What do the comments marked as tracking mean? Is this some way to watch new comments?
Are there any more questions about OpenDomain? Or is it time to put my money where my mouth is?
Thank you all for all the input (even funnymonkey, whom I seemed to have p'd off - sorry)
yeah - it allows me to see
yeah - it allows me to see when comments are added to the specific thread, making it easier to, well, track.
is it time to put my money
That seems like the logical next step to me.
No more questions
Doe that mean you agree that Drupal.Com should be used and that you think OpenDomain is kewl? :)
See my answer
See my answer here:
http://drupal.org/node/43660#comment-91740
.org is fine
Drupal has an interest in not allowing drupal.com to be actively used outside the community but it .org is great for the main site.
Most CMSs use .org. Most shopping carts use .com
OSCommerce.com is the most commonly used, ZenCart.com, VirtueMart.com (for Joomla).
With so many domain extensions it is important for drupal to maintain its brand identity and make sure that all TLDs are used for community purposes.
www.Drupalancers.com. Hire Drupal Experts in a Business-Friendly Environment.
Dries just posted an update
Dries just posted an update about this at http://buytaert.net/drupal-com-to-get-a-facelift
Large Robot
http://www.largerobot.com