Add new theme to core: Busy

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Wow, this is gorgeous eigentor! Really nice. :D

This looks awesome.
Thank you!

Its great looking, but have we really thought about the potential consequences of having drupal 7 ship with such a dead sexy, adaptive, and modern looking design?

Further opinions on points you made:
1. No CSS frameworks are not clutter, they remove clutter. That's why we use them. Plus its built on a framework! Removing such an important foundation would need a *Really* good argument. I mean *really* good one.
2. It would be a tragedy if the extra features you mentioned prevented Drupal 7 from shipping with what I think would be the best looking theme its ever had. Not to mention, the color picker in garland always felt like it made the theme harder to work with in code... ...and i'd say the difficulty of working with garland at a code level was its main flaw.

I've got a fever, and the only cure is a patch with this theme in it.

@Nick: thanks for your feedback.
Using a CSS framework (thanks to mcrittenden for his great BlueTrip!) gives us a strong base for our theme and enabled me (a non-designer) to create the base for this theme.
As you noted above, creating a theme that works with color.module is really - uhm, lets call it "fun" :).

While building the base for this theme I felt it would be a good idea to make color.module somehow more flexible (to allow the theme to be as flexible as garland is. And much more.).
See #693504: Color.module does not support more than 5 colors and has hard-coded labels for further details.

subscribing. Would love to see this make it into core (or any new theme for that matter). This looks awesome.

Subscribe. I want this in D7. Waiting patiently for github repo.

subscribe.

Very interesting, sub. This could really help D7 catch the eye of more designers.

Wow. It looks so professional! It's the best Drupal theme I've ever seen. I can't wait to try it!

Just one thing: I hope it'll let us change font size easily without breaking the design. The font in your screenshots looks quite small (I have a poor eyesight. ;))

Just a note that I created and still maintain BlueTrip, the CSS framework being used here, so I'll be happy to help on that front if needed. Maybe we'll even discover a bug or a feature request along the way.

However, and I've said it before (http://drupal.org/node/683026#comment-2472084), I don't think a CSS framework belongs in core. It's a core theme's job to show that it's easy to make a nice looking theme using clean and semantic code, and frameworks aren't going to help that. We're trying to get more designers into Drupal, and designers crave sexy front end code, and a framework just isn't going to provide that.

If we end up using BlueTrip, then I'd highly recommend removing all unused CSS selectors (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/5392 will help with that) and renaming what's left, but even that will inevitably be a bit messier than if we had just coded from scratch.

Also, this is obviously eigentor's call, but is "Busy" definitely the name of this theme? The word busy is usually used in design as a bad thing (i.e., cluttered or messy).

Re @mcrittenden -- I agree that a core theme that was clean and semantic would be wonderful. I also think that its not an insignificant goal, and that its probably too late in this themes development and drupal 7.0 is too close (seems like the kind of goal you'd want to have at the very beginning of the development). Also -- while technically this would put a framework in core, i think there's a big difference between putting a framework in a /themes folder as opposed to /misc.

We use frameworks to make it easier, and faster for us to code high quality themes. Why would we deprive anyone who used this theme of the same tools that made it relatively easy for us to build it? If you're saying bluetrip is broken, that's one thing. If its not however, I think there's a lot of reasons FOR leaving it in as well.

I agree we need to attract more designers to drupal, and I think shipping with this new look will go a long way in helping that happen. I'm not saying its not important for us to be able to show off a clean and semantic theme. I guess my argument would be that its not everyone's priority, while having a halfway decent looking site is practically a universal one - which this theme can do.

In any case, can't really debate much more without seeing the actual source of theme.

@Nick Lewis: Good points all around. Let's wait until we see the source like you said and go from there.

Looks excellent. It raises the question [at least to me] if Drupal shouldn't come with a "business" theme, a "blog" theme, a "bruchure" theme, a barebones theme.....etc.....

The others might be a stretch, but this theme really has me thinking that it would be great for Drupal for ship with a theme that has a business feel to it - and I really think it should come with a blog theme.

Excellent work - can't wait to see it on github.

Re: #14, I think we're sort of unofficially working towards that goal.

- Business theme: this one
- Blog theme: #683026: Add a new theme to D7 core: Bartik
- Brochure theme: #686410: New core theme for Drupal 7: Corolla
- Barebones theme: Stark

Then there's always Garland as a decent jack of all trades theme.

The meaning of the theme is a little bit ironic and indeed the idea is taken from the phrase "I am busy".

The name has one reason: Web developer and designer are often very busy and have a lot of things and jobs to do at the same time. They have to be account managers, marketing specialists, SEO experts, CSS code hackers, writers, server administrators, security experts... in one person - even if they do not want to do all of it.

So, if you "are busy" and you need to impress your customer quickly or you need some time for other important things to do, use the "Busy" theme as a first base, change some design elements to the corporate design of your customer's company and you can develop more specific (design) content later in the project process. The "Busy" theme should help saving some of your valuable time...

Just for the record: joergsart has designed this wonderful theme.

Looks nice. Can we see some code?

Jacine indicated on IRC that I perhaps haven't been as urgent about this as I need to be. Here goes.

I am extremely concerned that we are heading into February, and I am not seeing fervent back and forth patch reviews on this issue. This is the surest sign to me as a core maintainer that rapid progress is happening and there is a team of people to drive this home. Right now I see no team. I see something that looks nice on the surface and a lot of comments that amount to basically "+1!".

If there is such activity happening in an off-site repo (such as github) to better facilitate collaboration, then great, but there absolutely has to be periodic patches/summaries posted here so that the rest of us can keep up with (and contribute to) the progress. Our core patch reviewers are here, not in github, and it's imperative that these reviews be tracked transparently for all to contribute to.

I am also very nervous that we will end up with 3-4 nice looking, but non-core-worthy themes because of resource allocation issues, and this whole initiative will end up getting bumped to Drupal 8. We have a very limited number of front-end developers contributing to core at all, and those people are currently stretched around at least three core themes plus whatever else they were already working on. If we don't see a huge influx of new front-end people giving reviews, I think we might need to cut our losses and try to get just one of these in rather than three. :\ I really don't want to do that, because this would be totally amazing if we could pull it off, but we need critical mass in order to do so and I am not seeing it.

So what I need to see, absolutely as soon as possible, are actual code reviews, and lots of them on this issue. That only happens when we start posting interim patches. So please let's get some code in this issue!

/me is loving the design, agreeing with webchick, subscribing to this issue.

whoah, subscribe!

subscribe

scribing

I'll gladly test, review and patch this theme as soon as we get some code up here.

This is cooler then the iPad!!

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I would totally support this being a core theme. It's got a unique 'flair' that most drupal themes are simply lacking. Having this in the core would help show people the different styles you can get and would be a great example for other designers as well.

Sorry for the delay. We're working hard on an initial version to show (and to create a patch from).
Hopefully we can provide a patch later today or tomorrow.

stay tuned ...

Looks good, agreed on patch urgency.

subscribe

subscribing

Here we go.
The patch is based on our current work (identical to github source). Extract the images right into themes/busy (it will create a directory called "images" hopefully).

looks great, subscribing.

Very distrubd by this theme, although it is appealing to a certain target audience. It holds almost no visual identity, the clear and business it intends to convey, seems to be left behind on a visual style that was abandon many years ago. Given that we have 3 themes in the current iniative, I do concider this one the least favorable.

So contrary to webchick's request for code review, I think a visual review might be in place.

@Bojhan, Are you basing your review on the screenshots or the unfinished demo site?

The screenshots.

Well, I like it. Not sure what "certain target audience" bucket that puts me in. :)

In general though, I think we should be a little more kind to the designers that step up to this challenge. It takes a lot of work and guts, and even if it doesn't end up in core, it can live in contrib... Unless we totally insult the designer and that person decides they don't want to be a part of our community.

*chuckle* disturbed, Bojhan? There's no zombies in this theme!! If you have specific concerns that aren't based purely on your aesthetics please do outline them so they can be addressed. Saying, "I don't like it because it seems old" isn't a very useful review. Please do describe the specific concerns you're having. Is it too much something? Not enough something else?

I think this theme will appeal to a lot of folks and I can think of a few clients who would happily choose a theme like this for a micro-site rollout. I especially like how customizable the header and colours appear to be.

The first bug I notice: it does not display site name on the front page

I'm not personally keen on the 'smiling business faces', in fact I'm never keen on smiling business faces anywhere, or the Druplicon that much, but those aren't the theme as such - i.e. the black and white version looks really nice to me.

@catch: the screenshots above were just samples (as the "smiling business faces").
Currently it is close to http://drupal.org/files/issues/busy-blue-smaller-header.jpg (see http://busy.undpaul.de for a demo).

@Bojhan: I like the design. No theme is suitable for everyone, obviously, but I think this will appeal to a large number of users. I don't share your opinion that is does not have a visual identity and I agree with Emmajane that an opinion like that needs to be supported with some arguments.

On the other hand, Emmajane, I don't agree that purely aesthetic reviews are not useful. Most people simply know if something doesn't look good, way before they have the arguments to back it up. If 40 out of 50 people would say that it looks old fashioned, that would be a clear sign. We should not dismiss negative opinions beforehand.

I like the theme as well. I think visual identity is only important on the default theme. I'd actually very much hate it, if every Drupal theme was heavily branded as Drupal.

Obviously, arguing in this thread - who has over 20 people who actually like it for its ashetic reasons is not a good strategy. But I felt it was still important to share, we often forget to look at its identity and its brand.

So let me care to explain :

1. Business
Its target audience is Business, its a website a lot of clients would feel comfortable bit because of its business look, these attributes that make this look like a business theme.

1. The somewhat larger area, mostly appropiate for a stock image
2. The somewhat small options for intense content (very styled navigation, allows for limited extra blocks)
3. Visual emphasis on site title
4. A+, A-, Print, PDF icons - even though the useage of this functionality is very limited

2. Old-fashioned attributes
There are a few elements that I strongly associate with beign old fashioned.

1. The site in a box style, a white pane - on which the whole site is based
2. Intense use of gradients to give visual hierachy; but failing to create an actual emphasis on the content with this
3. No clear typography applied, ie everything is sans-serif
4. No clear emphasis on navigation, even though that is often most important

These are I think the most important parts of the theme, apart from a few questionable usability elements. I would like to emphaize on the fact, that this should not be conciderd purely a matter of taste or opinion. Therefor saying 40/50 people must dislike it, for this theme to stop would be silly.

I hope these are understandable arguments, although I agree this is a very suitable theme for clients. I am somewhat astranged by the comment in #47, that visual identity does not matter. Its the reason why we got such ugly themes into core at the first place. I wish to keep a high standard in both code and visual style, for any core theme - this means very carefully conciderd elements, styles, typography and more.

@Jacine I didn't mean to insult the designer in any way, but also the designer should be open to opposing arguments - just like all developers do in this community.

@emmajane I am trying to take as objective view as I can, not taking into account what ones client might like. But rather if we whish to associate this visual style, with Drupal. I remember a lot of "this site looks like a Drupal site". That is definitly not something I want Drupal to be associated with in the future. When adding a new visual style, we have to be very aware of new styles/trends but also of traditional design elements - which I believe are not good this theme.

Bojhan, arguing in this thread is very important, even though your audience is likely to be biased. I do appreciate that you share your thoughts; thanks for your explanation.

Regarding your points:
1.1: Sorry, I don't quite understand. Are you saying that the content area should be larger?
1.2: I agree, it would be nice to have some more options for content that really needs to stand out.
1.3: Not sure if that's needed. I think that a compelling image, a good call-to-action or a well written 'elevator pitch' is more important on a home page.
1.4: Shouldn't those icons be offered by modules that actually implement such functionality?

In general, being a little old fashioned isn't that bad for a corporate website; business sites are not meant to redefine webdesign as we know it. Elements that you and I might regard as 'last year', can look familiar and trustworthy to the average user.
2.1: AFAIC, there's nothing wrong with that, it adds to the business feel.
2.2: Gradients are indeed used a lot, but I'm not sure if eigentor meant this as a way to add emphasis. I understand that you feel that emphasis on certain content is lacking?
2.3: I agree, typography can be improved.
2.4: I totally agree, the main navigation looks like it's trying to hide in plain sight.

Now that you have taken the time to explain your point of view, I can see that it's not purely a matter of taste and opinion. Before, I just couldn't tell.

Allow me to explain my 40/50 remark a little better: All I'm trying to say is that is that there are two ways to validate an opinion: either by explaining or by gathering a convincing majority. If many people have the same opinion, but do not take the time to explain, it's still a valid point that should be taken seriously.

Obviously, no one here can vote for this theme to stop; it would at least be a valuable addition to the contrib themes. The design already is way better than many contrib themes I have seen. We don't really need to argue how good this theme is (although it might help the author improve the theme). I think the most important question is: If we ship this theme with Drupal, would it be good for Drupal itself? If I understand correctly, Bojhan, your answer would be 'no'?

Any progress on this? At this late stage in the cycle, if an issue like this goes >48 hours without some kind of visible activity, it starts to make me very nervous...

Also, cross-posting my "keep themes to themes" rant from the other theme issues just so everyone's in the loop. :)

---

I don't want any of these core themes having little neat one-off doo-dad gadgets in them. For example, the Bartik feature to make the "Published on" string configurable in the UI, or what it sounds like this "Dynamic column resizer" feature is in Kiwi.

It makes it incredibly confusing for end users who get used to the way one of the core themes works, then go to do that same thing on another one, and then can't find that neat little thing they played with before. It also causes maintenance overhead because changes to themes can't be made consistently throughout.

If such features are found to be useful, they should be added to core itself (like Color module) so that any and all themes can hook into them. And since Drupal 7 is closed for new features, this would have to happen in Drupal 8.

So please keep these themes to just that: themes.

Thanks, eigentor.

I don't think we need to track all of the little sub-issues in this issue, as I agree that'd be really hard to keep track of. But we absolutely must have periodic updates of what's going on, along with patches (or at the very least links to tarballs with the latest code). Our code reviewers (and core committers) are here, not at github.

Making a patch that adds files in CVS is indeed a huge PITA, but making one in Git should be pretty easy. I bet you could ask for help with that in IRC.

I am definitely not at all eager to check in an 'alternate' re-coloring technique into core, no. The name of the game is consistency, so this theme needs to act consistent with what other themes in core do. If the Color module issues you're experiencing are bugs, we should fix them. If they're features, then we should kick them to D8, and scale back the ambition of recolourable areas.

Here is the next patch (images are in #695292-35: Add new theme to core: Busy).

Happy testing.

It's coming together.
If you are worried about

.node-teaser .node-inner .field-type-image img {
 width: 170px;
}

in the image that's actually 220 wide, yeah.
... I actually find html-side image resizing to be an elegant (if used carefully) solution in some cases. FUN with % !. With image smoothing working well evan down in IE6- it actually fixes some issues in designs.
But no, no you don't want to be doing that to user-defined content :-)

... makes me wonder if a theme should have a way of influencing the imagecache preset size. Logically it is a theme setting, not a content one ...

Anyway, nice progress, but if there are such severe issues in IE, I would not underestimate the time that it will take to iron those out!

subscribing

@eigentor :

If we want to use transparent pngs somewhere, the best png fix is on demand (not sure if D7 already has a good solution implemented.)

I think you should not support png24 for IE6 because it will be hacky whatever the solution is, and there is no tool for this in core. But could use the technique used in #703490: Use PNG24 images that degrade to PNG8 on IE6 comment #1 to have a graceful degradation to png8. Works pretty well :)

I think it's time for another round of interim patches, to see if we can get this wrapped up by March 1.

Does anyone have a working command to create patches from a git-repository?
--no-prefix --no-color doesn't seem to work ...

#68: busy-theme-3.patch queued for re-testing.

This theme has some good elements, but like a few people before me I see some issues with the typography. I've downloaded the theme from the #64 git hub-today and find it very difficult to discern page titles from breadcrumbs from messages from body text from Drupal tabs etc. The attached image is a good example of this.

Is anything happening here? Is this still under consideration for a core theme? Is there a project site or cvs site?

Sorry for the delay. We are currently stuck into a customer project and unfortunately noone else is helping here :/

Yes, there is a project page (and some issues) -> http://drupal.org/project/busy
And you can find the source on github: http://github.com/stborchert/busy

Hopefully we will start working again on the theme tomorrow (Wednesday, 3rd of March).

thanks for your patience,

Stefan

Hm. I'm not sure what justifies additional time here. This issue hasn't had an update in 3 weeks, while in the meantime the other themes have been making progress. Am I missing something?

I guess I'll need to bring up this situation with Dries at our meeting this week. But my feeling is that we're now > 30 days (close to 60, actually) since this new theme initiative began, and what we have to show for it are three unfinished themes. It probably makes sense to pick only one of them and focus all the community energy around it, to get it done in a timely manner. And so far, Bartik seems to have had the most mindshare/effort behind it...

Devil's advocate to what I'd imagine is a very possible verdict:
1. I personally do my best work when under insane deadlines. I don't speak for the the busy team, but am just saying that sometimes time constraints are a perverted blessing of sorts...
2. This theme is great looking to relative to the crop of drupal themes available, and more importantly its unique in that its targeted at what I feel is a gapping hole in core's offerings: the non-bloggy drupal sites.
3. I don't know if the historical record of drupal core themes warrants treating them like we do apis and modules (e.g. "we commit, we'll own it... for years, and years, and years"). This is debatable, maybe just ignore this point.
4. The real aspects that make or brake a core theme are usually hard to forsee and understand until the theme is actually in core and real people outside of us actually start using it.

I'm not saying I think this theme should go into drupal 7, and to hell with our standards . I just feel that there are reasons for not writing it off even at what is considered "absolute zero freeze" for the rest of core... by definition core should be able to function with or without it -- if its dysfunctional we merely remove it from the theme directory before final release, no? A cutoff date might be worth considering as an alternative to writing it off.

And booyakasha: respek.

Put together a list of must-have features for new core themes and set a final deadline for implementing them

Tagging

@eigentor make sure that you use $title instead of $node_title in node.tpl.php, there were several bug reports about $node_title not working any longer under alpha 3.

Overall the theme looks much nicer now. Considering the fact that no deadline has been set yet and Drupal 7 is going to be released a bit later than initially expected, I hope you will get it finished in time

I talked to Dries about this, and we're officially taking this theme out of the running for core theme, at least for D7. Apologies, eigentor, because I know you worked hard on this, but both Corolla and Bartik are much further along, more visually well-defined as a result, and we have set a very aggressive timeline for completion and need to focus our resources.

Wow! Love it...

But i think the system CSS (style.css) should be based on Seven (http://drupal.org/project/seven) to have more modern ul, li, tabs, forms, expanded, etc. looks.

After all, that's where in 99% you can tell if a website looks "drupalish" or not...

Oooh! :( This was my prefered drupal core theme :(

@oriol_e9g: don't worry. busy will be available as a contrib theme.
Hopefully we will find some time within the next months to do further work on it.

Wow,very cool, if it fit for uberCart, it will better.

Hi,

First, your theme is really really good and beautiful. And really adapt for business.

I'd like to know if this theme is made to have submenu ?
Because I put some pages under categories of my principal menu but no links are showing.

Thanks in advance !

Sorry but I have to close this issue. The process for adding new core themes is being completely redefined so, despite the hard work that went into this for D7 it is not longer relevant in Drupal 8.

For more please see Design Initiative for Drupal 8 and get involved!

Busy is a wonderful design and I hope it is put forward again for Drupal core as part of the new Design Initiative.

@Jeff: no need for a "sorry" :)
We (mainly Thomas [eigentor]) are planning to build a new branch of Busy and replace all of this spooky shadow-divs with CSS3-Shadow. Additionally color.module-support is on the list, as well as some more cleanup.

I'm sure, Thomas will join the Design initiative ;) (hint hint)

nvm

This is closed, please become familiar with the thread and the overall issue.