Determine Camp Location for 2014

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Disclaimer: I work for CU-Boulder and live within walking distance of Wolf Law - yes I'm biased :P

I have to disagree that Wolf Law cannot handle at least 500. With more people comes more simultaneous sessions. With smart scheduling, we could have twice as many sessions by utilizing the courtroom and third floor more efficiently, which spreads traffic in the hallways. We didn't use one of the largest rooms on the second floor, and their's another large room on the 3rd which went unused. With that many people, we could also move the sponsors - and coffee breaks - to the Student Commons area on the second floor, which would free up a large percentage of the hallways. As for the keynote, we can live stream to an overflow room for those that arrive late. Our statistics show that a fairly large percentage don't come to the keynote, so our overflow should be small if we encourage people to move inwards and use all the seats.

As for food, it might be possible to organize a few food trucks, or we could offer an increased ticket price and have catered lunch (Moe's BBQ?!). I've also been to a conference in Boulder which had busses to Pearl St for lunch (though I don't think we should). I'm still a fan of the really cheap ticket with no lunch if possible.

The perception that Boulder is harder to get to than Denver can be mitigated by a really good Travel page on the website that explains the bus routes. I also really like the idea of charting busses/vans at scheduled times between Denver and Boulder (possibly the Airport too).

Finally, depending on when we decide to hold the camp (and possibly any delays), the construction that is underway will be complete, and there will be a lot of new space that can be reserved within a short walking distance.

With more people, we could probably get better deals at the hotels nearby as well.

Just to be complete, here's the prices of all the rooms (not in odd places - like within the library) within Wolf Law that are available. It's pretty difficult to find any venue quite like Wolf Law at the prices we can get it [floor plan]. Prices are per day.

101 Courtroom          $200     255
100 Reception          $100     -
201 Student Commons    -        75
204 Classroom          $100     97
205 Classroom          $100     78
206 Classroom          $100     75
207 Classroom          $100     90
301 Classroom          $100     79
300 Sprint room        $75      30
303 Sprint room        $75      20
304 classroom sprint   $75      50
305 classroom sprint   $75      50
306 classroom sprint   $75      50
307 classroom sprint   $75      50
330 Sprint room        $75      20
 -  Lounges (reception) -       50
                     =======
                      $1325     419 in 5 classrooms
                                255 in courtroom
                                200 in 4 classroom sprint rooms
                                125 in ~6 lounges (+Commons) across the building
                                70 in 3 sprint rooms              

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Minor typos.

It's subjective, but if we had ~500 people attending there would be some who were disappointed by being in the overflow. I remember complaint tweets from Drupalcon portland about that fact. I'm not saying that should be a disqualifying factor, but it's something to consider.

I don't think a travel page does significantly offset perceptions. By their nature perceptions are ill-informed. It's a "don't confuse me with the facts" situation.

I've found address data on the 2011 camp and am manually putting it together for 2013. We can use that to see distribution of visitors to see if/how that distribution was changed.

I don't think it's worth discussing Boulder or Denver until there is an actual suggestion of a Denver venue to compare prices, locations, etc.

I thought the CU-Boulder Wolf Law venue was much better than the camps I had attended at the Denver Auraria campus and don't think there was anything at Auraria superior to Wolf Law.

If money can be saved by the ridiculously cheap prices of renting Wolf Law, then lots more cool stuff can be done with the camp.

I would be willing to consider a Denver location if someone did some research and posted some specific venues. I think @kevincrafts is right in that we can consider other venues if a proponent of placing it in Denver/Aurora/Colorado Springs/(heaven forbid)Pueblo posts a specific venue idea.

Per our IRC discussion today, it sounds like we would benefit from having something to compare physical venues, their attributes and their costs.
I've created a Google Doc here.
Add/modify fields that matter to you.
We could fill this up with a few ideas and then debate about the locations once it's completed.

Caveat4U, we already have a google doc that we've used in previous years. I don't know why we haven't used it in the most recent years, but perhaps it's time to bring it back from the dead.

The Auraria Campus King Center is still a viable option for 2014. The quote for 2013 that was submitted isn't going to change much at all for 2014. We could have a repeat of the 2011 camp. The recipe is very much in place as well as the cast of characters.

I feel like Auraria attracted more folks because it is half the commute from DIA, accessible by light-rail, has more local hotel options for out of town folks and is centrally located in the populous front range portion of the state.

The concert hall is more than large enough for the keynotes and I like the idea of serving a catered lunch to everyone as we did in 2011. The lunch was cost effective and the social mingle time involved of the guests was highly valuable. I had a conversation while in the lunch line which I hold as great memory.

I can also provide a quote for a couple locations on the DU Campus but they were significantly more expensive options last time I checked. However, it is possible that this year would be different.

Setting version.

One more.

There was a lot of reserve when it came to trying Boulder. I think it was a great success and well received in regards to location, facilities, and supporting area. +1 for a repeat for 2014

I personally missed this blog post by Saunders asking for volunteers for 2014... just cross-posting here as well in case others missed it.

http://www.dogstar.org/drupal/content/drupalcamp-colorado-2014

I would concur that Boulder was a great location.

+1 on Boulder. Being in charge of the budgets, nothing else can compare!

• While I really liked the Boulder Campus, I do think that for those flying in from out of town it is a deterrent.
• I personally didn't attend the after hours events very much because I needed to drive home in the evening. I do wonder if I was in the minority on that.

I'd personally vote for Denver if we were voting.

@MatthewS I share your concerns, but would be open to having it in Boulder one more time before we make a final decision. For out-of-towners I think the perception of the distance to boulder is bigger than the actual distance.

I changed the pro- and con-Boulder lists to a comparison table between the proposed options, and potential solutions for improving the weaker points of both venues. My hope is this will lead to a better event regardless of which venue we end up at. I think I got everything discussed so far, but if you see anything I missed, please correct.

I think attendance in 2013 for the Boulder location was lower than the Denver location in 2011, but we were also coming off the heels of DrupalCon Portland, so it's difficult to say if that was a determining factor.

That said, I enjoyed both events. If I had to choose, I would like to give Boulder another shot.

attendance in 2013 for the Boulder location was lower than the Denver location in 2011

The elephant in the room when discussing 2013's attendance numbers is the fact that we didn't have a website accepting registrations until one month before the event. I have a hard time using the decreased attendance as a measure against the venue choice.

Any nearby larger space in Boulder?

By better utilizing the space we had reserved (as well as reserving more of the building) we should have enough for ~500 comfortably (see my #1 comment). There are also new adjacent buildings to Wolf Law (the construction that was going on during the camp last year. Supposedly there are new rooms in these buildings which can be reserved if we need to be larger, but I have not gone to look at the spaces yet or looked in to reservation costs.

@ultimateboy - can you check on the spaces and the costs?

It's not an elephant, it's a hypothesis. The survey data we have contradicts that hypothesis as a primary motivator.

I'll do some anonymizing and aggregating of the data over the weekend and share the results on this thread. I'd like to put to bed the issue of location very quickly as it is a dependency for nearly everything else.

My observations from the organization of last years event is that it was less enthusiastic than previous years. That is complete conjecture but I was scanning this thread for something similar to what ultimateboy mentions. I'm looking forward to approaching this camp with more vigor to help eliminate that possibility as a factor.

A compelling reason to attend from afar, e.g. organized sprints, could make this a smaller issue

This is an excellent suggestion. It seems reasonable we increase our chances of growing the camp if we effectively organize and communicate the high value events surrounding it.

In my experience working with sponsors for the past several Camps, the budgets we're running could easily be expanded to accommodate a better venue. While I prefer the idea of saving money, we often—if not always—make money on these events (which is a minor problem and not the goal). We sell out of sponsorship slots quickly even when adding more expensive tiers. We have had to find creative ways to spend our profits that bring value to the community.

All that leads me to conclude that the cost difference between the venues that we've used in the past should not be a significant factor in making a decision. I think we could even consider more expensive venues if we wanted to.

Reacting to cyberswat's comment... I felt that having DrupalCon Portland so close to DCCO really took the wind out of our sails. With DrupalCon Austin in early June, I think the effect could be compounded. Location is important, but so is scheduling.

I created #2151705: Determine camp dates to talk about scheduling in general. For this thread, it's probably worth checking on availability of both venues being discussed. Availability could end up being the most important factor here.

Can larsdesgins and ultimateboy look into available dates for us and report back to this thread? I'll also reach out in IRC to the two of them.

Are we thinking about having the camp in the second half July to not conflict with Drupalcon Austin or perhaps earlier than June?

FWIW Here are a couple Camp schedules. Build A Module (BAM!)'s manual list is currently more useful.
http://buildamodule.com/drupal-camps-calendar
https://groups.drupal.org/events?type%5B%5D=regional&type%5B%5D=drupalcon

Earlier than DrupalCon Austin might be too aggressive of a timeline IMHO. We'd basically have to target late April/early May in that scenario. Unless there is a benefit with respect to moving it earlier (cheaper venue prices, getting more students because college is in session, etc), I'd vote for the end of July.

Please move the date discussion to the date issue (#2151705: Determine camp dates) so new people can more easily join these discussions. Date and location are obviously connected, but there's also plenty to discuss in both issues that isn't related.

Ok, the dates are semi-set ( https://drupal.org/node/2151705 ) though this will be subject to a venue being available.

I have heard back from Wolf Law. The first two weekends in August (which are the highest voted options in #2151705: Determine camp dates) are both available for reservation.

As soon as we make the decision, I'll send the email to reserve the rooms.

Can we put a deadline on this decision? I'd really like to reserve Wolf Law as quickly as possible so that we don't lose the dates we want.

Three weeks from today is January 8th. Can we have all the options on the table and agree to make a decision by then?

+1 for a January 8th deadline. The sooner this is resolved the more we can focus on the good stuff.

Folks, all we are waiting on right now is for larsdesigns to come back with the options for Denver as well so we'll have some options to discuss with pros and cons. He is visiting the campus on Monday to meet with them. Lets wait until then to set a deadline please.

Sounds like he is shooting for the end of next week. January 3rd-ish

+1 for Boulder. It's hard to beat the CU campus in the summertime :)

@larsdesign How is this coming?

I haven't had a response by e-mail or to my voice mails. However, now that the holidays are behind us, I will visit their office and see if I can get a quote and check availability. I will call and e-mail again tomorrow (Monday) and I will visit this Tuesday in afternoon if I am still unable to achieve contact tomorrow.

I can image their office was under staffed during the holidays and remaining staff was overwhelmed with holiday shows. I will push hard to have solid documentation by January 10th.

I am also interested in the Spire Hotel in downtown Denver. They have a floor dedicated for conferences and it may be suitable. I think it is worth sniffing into.

As this conversation started the last day of last year's camp, I imagine people are eager to resolve it and it may be too late already to introduce a third venue option. There was talk in #33 about having a decision on this as early as next week.

If it's not too late already, we'll probably need to move fast on it. It wasn't clear to me in my searches where the Spire Hotel is, but I think that might be what people call the Four Seasons, which appears to have adequate spaces for everything we need:

http://www.fourseasons.com/denver/meetings_and_events/?c=t&_s_icmp=tmenu...

In the interest of moving fast, I started filling out their proposal request form, but then realized that would effectively make me point person on that venue, which I can't commit to. So if anyone else is interested enough in the venue to be point person, I suggest filling out that form ASAP.

I think it's too late to consider a new venue unless it is an immediately obvious winning option (e.g. perfect size/shapes of rooms, free everything and a host who loves us). To me, "Spire" means http://www.spiredenver.com/ but that's not a hotel so maybe its something else?

Like I said, it seems too late and the lack of responsiveness from the AHEC so far makes me think we should just choose Boulder.

If we don't hear anything about AHEC by EOD tomorrow, I tend to agree - getting the venue sorted out is holding other things up at this juncture.

Just heard back from the King Center and the coordinator office has been closed for over a month. However, they opened back up today and we should have an answer by tomorrow.

I would suggest that we adopt the deadline of January 8th suggested earlier in the issue for venue proposals.

Let's keep the timeline in perspective. We must have a set of prospective dates before a venue can be investigated. The dates were chosen around December 12th 2013 according to issue https://drupal.org/comment/8268633#comment-8268633.

So that has effectively has given me about three weeks to work with the King Center which has been closed since December 1st and re-opened today for business.

To be fair to the folks who are leaning towards having the camp in Denver, I feel like we should extend the venue proposal deadline to a reasonable date.

For a second venue option, I meant to offer looking into the Denver Regency Hyatt hotel, who I believe also owns and manages the Spire. Sorry about the tangle.
http://denverregency.hyatt.com/en/hotel/home.html

I'm not sure you do have to have dates before talking to a venue. We are almost always flexible on dates based on availability and usually rule out venues in ways unrelated to the dates (usually price).

Is anyone volunteering to look into Hyatt locations? Based on my own investigations of traditional event space from years past, I don't think it's worth the time. They are always just way too expensive and thus not worth the time.

Well for the prospective dates, June can be very different from August. At least having the prospective date ranges will help narrow down available venues and prices.

I think #2151705: Determine camp dates is as final on dates as we're going to get pending venue availability. Our first choice is Aug 1-3. If that's not available, Aug 8-10, July 25-27, and July 18-20 are also options. June was dismissed as too close to DrupalCon Austin.

Exchanged e-mails and spoke with Auraria by phone this morning. We are ironing out the details and should have a King Center quote back this afternoon.

Thank you to everyone working on this! Either location would work and have some obvious advantages, so I'll withdraw my vote, but the date is the biggest deciding factor for me. I wasn't able to attend last year due to some scheduling issues. I'm hoping this year I can make it!

Thanks again to everyone working through this process!

Thanks everybody. We had a crazy number of responses - 106. We know that a few aren't valid, but those are a pretty small number and ultimateboy and myself agree it wouldn't change the result.

57% favoured Denver
43% favoured Boulder

It looks like Denver will be the location this year. We'll move forward under those assumptions and get contracting for the King Center for 2014. Thanks for your participation in the vote.