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By bertboerland on
Currently we are running the third Release Candidate of the upcoming 4.7 release of Drupal. This means that our new release is just around the corner now and while we can’t put a date on when this much anticipated version will ship, it will be within weeks instead of months. So it is a bit late to start coordinating a marketing offensive to go with the release, however, it is never too late to market a product or service. In this thread you can post what you want to contribute to the marketing offensive.
The reference standard
There is one Open Source Software project that rewrote the rules regarding marketing and combining the use of both old and new media to maximize airtime; Mozilla! They have a press department, held a fundraiser for a two-page advocacy ad in the New York Times and have a Drupal powered website SFX to promote Firefox. On this site, numerous of successful campaigns were hosted or promoted; the download counter, the FireFoxFlicks adcontest and lots more, they sure know how to get media attention.
In contrast to Mozilla, our marketing efforts seem to be rather in-side-out instead of out-side-in and primary based around drupal.org instead of using other media. We could however organize a huge media attack combined with the upcoming release to shake things up, thinking out-side-in and combining the power of drupal.org together with other media/sites. In this thread, we try to get brilliant ideas and collect people devoted to act upon those ideas. For coding we have a Drupal saying "Talk is Sliver, Code is Gold". This holds true as well for this marketing offensive, don’t just drop ideas, add as well what you can do to coordinate your idea.
We don’t want to limit you in your creativity to market Drupal, so the listed points below are only examples to get you started.
On Drupal.org
Things you could do on drupal.org are amongst others, write up a press release, coordinate translations of this press release, create a Drupal spotlight banner for 4.7 or man the "press-at-drupal-dot-org" mailbox for questions from the press.
But more than just using our own site, we should use other media to get new people and ideas into Drupal.
Other media
Here is where you can really creative; the sky is the limit as long as you are willing to fly the plane instead of being a passenger. To give you ideas of how we can use the written press, high volume websites, television and other media, here are some ideas to get you started.
Write up a story for digg and get enough people to digg it so it can make the frontpage. Coordinate a "Week of Drupal Adsense" where a Drupal site can run ads from google’s adsense and with the money all these sites make buy targeted ads on google when people search for “CMS”. Create a download counter and manage a referrer program or make a stone with DruplIcon on it and put it at night on the Walk of Fame. Or you might want to make a gallery of famous people wearing Drupal t-shirts or streak at an event that has live international TV coverage wearing nothing but a DrupalIcon to protect your private parts. But then again, maybe you want to do something really shocking.
Step in
So please get involved to generates ideas on how to maximize the marketing effort and state what you will do to make this idea become reality. And you don’t really have to streak if you have a better idea. :-)
Comments
Videocasts
I'd love to see three videocasts to go with the official Drupal 4.7.0 release announcement:
I've no experience recording videocasts but I'm willing to be a co-pilot. Maybe something Lullabot can (help) work on?
Sounds like a plan! We'll
Sounds like a plan! We'll get going on these...
I love doing videocasts!
I've been working with Zack from CSL on these videocasts. We'll have 'em coming soon.
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www.lullabot.com - making open source easy
that would be great
thanks. for the rest of us, dont forget to digg the link or promote it on your blog.
will you be able to dubb other audio (languages, see below) over it?
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groets
bertb
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groets
bert boerland
Great Idea. Maybe we can
Great Idea. Maybe we can also translate the vodcast into different languages and let more people from different parts of the world to sense the new features of drupal 4.7
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http://www.kzeng.info
smart!
never thought of translating the audio for the videopostings.
This is however rather complex, first you have to traslate the text (within the context) and that make an audio track and put that over the video track and upload the file again with a language tag to it. Not completely trivial. But thanks for pointing this out, it /is/ a good idea to get local!
Once this video is out, i'll do a Dutch version.
What languages s do /you/ speak?
What language
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groets
bertb
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groets
bert boerland
Greek version
if i have a little help how i do it
i'll do a Greek version
I am the Chinese translation
I am the Chinese translation coordinator and speaking mandarin Chinese (which is good for the vodcast becaues everybody in China can understand mandarin though they may speak mutually uncommunicable dialects.) So I'd really like to make a Chinese version for the vodcast.
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http://www.kzeng.info
Portuguese Version...
I'll do a Brazilian Portuguese Version ;)
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fabiano
Italian version
I can help with an Italian Version if that's any use ;-)
Helping People Help Others
Scripts
We can provide scripts for the videocast, as well as a version with no audio that can be dubbed over.
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www.lullabot.com - making open source easy
if you could
first release the UK version and release the script so ppl can make their own local version by translating text and keeping it in sync.. make sure you trust the source or let it be proof "read" by a native speaker, then dub the video, put it online in a subsection (nl,de,ge etc) nad we get closer to the reader by speaking his language.
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groets
bertb
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groets
bert boerland
Drupal 4.7 install in 3 minutes
I've created a screencast showing how to install Drupal 4.7 on Windows in only 3 minutes:
http://www.jakeg.co.uk/drupal
Its a bit rough round the edges still at the moment and lacks a musical soundtrack. It people think this one's good enough for general circulation then perhaps someone with musical talents can drop a soundtrack my way to use with this.
If people send me audio translations I can also put alternative languages up.
Jake
Drupal web services, London
great video!
though the d/l was a bit slow. we could host it on drupal.org though (dries?). I am willing and able to do Dutch translation if you can dubb that over the flash. Also I think we need Drupal 4.7 final for this and not an RC.
I also think you should start with the goal, why should people d/l something called drupal on their windows box? (answer: try out, play with new technology? dont have to install difficult linux tec?)
Can you redo the video with 4.7 once it gets out? And can I put a synced audio on a site with the Dutch text so you can pick that up?
Any other ppl that can help translating and take care of the audio?
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groets
bertb
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groets
bert boerland
Thanks for the comments. Its
Thanks for the comments. Its currently hosted in my house on my broadband connection, hence the slow download speed for you.
I understand your point about wanting 4.7.0 but Dries wants these screencasts launched when Drupal 4.7.0 launches... so a chicken and egg situation there. For all intents and purposes, RC3 == 4.7.0 anyway. But perhaps I can 'pretend' to install 4.7.0 instead?
Yes you can put your synced audio onto a copy of the file. Best is to put the audio file up on the web somewhere for me to download. Just watch the video and record an audio file whilst you watch so its in sync. Only thing is though, if I'm gonna create a new version with any changes, you won't want to do the audio sync quite yet.
Jake
Drupal web services, London
Hosting
Cool videocast, Jake. Yes, we can host it on drupal.org. Just send me a link to the final version and I'll mirror them. Maybe check and coordinate with Lullabot with regard to these videocasts. Not sure if any coordination is in order but I leave that up to you guys! :)
There are Drupal t-shirts?
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http://www.whatdoesthatmean.com
http://www.ponderfodder.com
http://www.scribendi.com
Yes there are
The site itself is written in Drupal. http://www.goodstorm.com/stores/drupal
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My developer blog. | The news is Now Public | Ask not what Drupal can do for you -- ask what you can do for Drupal.
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Drupal development: making the world better, one patch at a time. | A bedroom without a teddy is like a face without a smile.
Great, but...
There really should be a link to this off the Drupal.org frontpage or something - I'd been actively looking for something like this and couldn't find it. All I found was dead links to an old cafepress store via the handbook.
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http://www.whatdoesthatmean.com
http://www.ponderfodder.com
http://www.scribendi.com
chicken egg
We might put this on a more prominent page if we would benefit from selling shirts as well. For example if there was a small kickback fee. We dont however have a way yet of getting money in with the absence of a foundation so it might be a chicken egg thing. Now if they wouldnt give away money but would buy some time for every shirt sold to fix bugs, that would be an easy way of getting the shirts and the money back to the code of drupal.
does anyone have contacts overthere?
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groets
bertb
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groets
bert boerland
More than monetary benefit
I gather from your post that the Drupal community has no way to accept money yet... however even if you haven't got something like this set up, money isn't the only benefit to selling T-shirts. A CafePress store allows you to sell shirts at cost, and that helps market the Drupal brand. Later, if/when you do get a foundation or trust fund set up, then you can adjust the markup on the cafepress store.
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http://www.whatdoesthatmean.com
http://www.ponderfodder.com
http://www.scribendi.com
I think you could really
I think you could really start marketing efforts when CCK and VIEWS are part of core. Until then Drupal will not have the impact it deserves.
Brakkar
please explain
i dont get this, i fail to see why cck / views have to be in core to market drupal. could you please explain?
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groets
bertb
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groets
bert boerland
hey Bert
I would love to get involved. Do you mind if I start a Drupal group for marketing on groups.drupal.org?
I got antsy :)
And created one:
http://groups.drupal.org/node/99
I will follow up on th group later tonight with some thoughts...
thanks!
and uuuh, groups.drupal.org lacks a huge beta sign! :-)
(Beta being the New Black)
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groets
bertb
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groets
bert boerland
slashdot
Maybe an official announcement should be written and posted on the day of the release of 4.7 on slashdot.
This is what I found for 4.6
http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/18/066200
Marketing Roadmap
I think the reason Mozilla was so successful was because they had a well planned approach resulting in a unified and focused effort. Prior to building a campaign, a company (eg: Drupal.org) will create a "Communications Strategy" which is then passed to the Advertising Firm (eg: Drupal Community). The following is an outline for a Communications Strategy:
1) Why are we doing this campaign, what are the goals?
2) What message are we trying to communicate?
- a) What is the product benefit?
- b) Who are we trying to talk to? (Programers, Consultants, General Public...)
- c) What does the customer want/need?
- d) How does Drupal meet this want/need better than the competition?
3) What do we want customers to think, feel and do as a result of seeing the campaign?
4) What are the constraints eg: name, logo, budget, timing ...
Having these questions answered would help unify the communities' efforts resulting in a more focused and thus effective communications strategy.
I would be happy to help produce this document if some senior Drupal members have the time to chat through it. I would also enjoy working on any overall strategy of the campaign; anything really to help Drupal and put these past 4 years studying Marketing to good use.
Corporate Style Sheet
Does anyone have time and interest to work with me on creating a Drupal 'Corporate Style Sheet'?
Not to be confused with .css files - a Corporate Style Sheet is a document with clearly set out guidelines on how all Drupal content should be presented, e.g. use of colours, logos, fonts, ect.
The Corporate Style Sheet should apply across all media, and make it easier and quicker to create consistent marketing material.
Cortext Communications
Drupal Themes & Modules
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Drupal Specialists: Consulting, Development & Training
Robert Castelo, CTO
Code Positive
London, United Kingdom
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Hey Robert, This is an
Hey Robert,
This is an excellent idea to help present a unified front for every communication medium. It also move the Communications Strategy document a step forward.
good point
since i work for a Big Company I know however that guidelines like that can be killing for creativity. we should have guidelines (there are some in the handbooks) but still should have the freedom to make fun of the logo or change it.
But having some guideliness will help to speak the same language and deliver the sames message. Anyone up for that?
(and while we are at it, having a powerpoint / oo.org template will be usefull as well)
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groets
bertb
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groets
bert boerland
True
Standardising material could make it boring, but there are a lots of things that we could decide on to take care of common elements in advance, which would free people to be more creative.
It's always easier to design something when you have restrictions rather than a completely blank canvas where you can do anything.
I'll go through some Big Company style sheets at the weekend and draw up a list of elements we could have guidelines for.
Also, as you said, templates are a good idea.
Cortext Communications
Drupal Themes & Modules
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Drupal Specialists: Consulting, Development & Training
Robert Castelo, CTO
Code Positive
London, United Kingdom
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Free Software Magazine
I've secured an article in the form of newsletter about Drupal 4.7 with Free Software Magazine. They'll also advertising Drupal in their newsletter/site in exchange for a plug about Free Software Magazine in the next (May) newsletter.
Free Software Magazine itself uses and supports Drupal, in fact, the editor-in-chief (Tony Mobily) is a Drupal contributor.
Any thoughts on the article, or the plug for Free Software Magazine?
Robin
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Robin Monks / Socials
I build teams and technology for positive change.
Getting the word out on Drupal
The most common concern/complain about previous versions of Drupal is the level of patience and DB/PHP/FTP knowledge that it takes to get it up and running as well as the theme modifications that people have to do in CSS.
I suggest that we get volunteers (I volunteer my time to help install Drupal, tweak themes and answer peoples' questions - IRC/forums) so as to help people in need make their first Drupal installation. We can also help them get familiar with it by answering their questions. I lurk around the Drupal site answering newbe questions about Drupal and I see a need for assistance to get people off the ground. I am not a Drupal wizard by many standards, but this week alone I have started assisting new users get up to speed on Drupal through the feedback feature on my website for free (4 newbes this week).
If we can overcome this perceived hurdle that most weaker, we can move Drupal beyond being a tool for brave tinkerers to be a tool for the masses. It has the features, let's get people installing and testing.
Other ideas:
- Create a mailer with some targetted articles pointing out the new features of 4.7 and how they can be used to solve real-life challenges
- Create a contest for people to win something, even complimentary x hours of dedicated Drupal support from a knowledgeable volunteer or a T-shirt (I would not mind a Drupal T-shirt ;)
- We can borrow a leaf from the success of spreadfirefox.com and get the word out in a stylish way. If there is interest, I would volunteer my time in more Drupal marketing efforts
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iDonny - Web CMS Development, Design, and Web Marketing Advice
Hey Donny, I would agree
Hey Donny, I would agree that when first learning about Drupal it can be very intimidating for the non technical user. I have often seen forum posts from newbs gone unanswered (I'm sure I have a couple myself haha). However I think this begs the question is Drupal ready for the masses and do we want to attract an influx of people without the technical skills? Or do we wait until Drupal has an installation and module interface that doesn't require DB/PHP/FTP knowledge?
I like your suggestion about the forum for new people and the IRC channel. If this information could then be compiled into a massive knowledge base or otherwise documented it could serve to decrease the barriers for new users wanting to try Drupal.
It all comes back to who we are trying to attract and the goal of the campaign.
Agree/Alternative perspective
I agree with you idea that Drupal might not be ready for the masses, however, we cannot hide a good thing from the public especially when it's free (unless it was restricted a la Google Analytics). Being that the cost of an extensible and future proof CMS plateform is prohibitive to most small/medium companies (MCMS is $5K to 25K for an enterprise install), it is clear that many companies are out there looking for a cost-effective CMS, and Drupal provides infrastructure for that (One of my clients prefers to pay me to fight/tweak Drupal for him instead of paying for feature limited but cheap Magnolia or droping big money just for installation of a big-boy CMS without support).
Since Drupal cannot and should not be intentionally limited to the savvy, we might as well get it to the public, and if they cannot handle the configuration themselves beyond the extensive documentation, they can pay those of us that do not mind working for money.
On the topic of IRC, I see far too many elementary questions that have been answered time and again (the forums have many such topics from impatient frustated newbies) and IRC might be a channel for these questions. Maybe someone can install the chat module on Drupal.org or Help Center Live and get some volunteers to hold peoples' hands.
Sorry to have taken the discussion away from the Marketing topic.
Marketing:
- Can we get Google to give us a search page since we are non-profit (like th search page you get with Firefox that has their branding)
- Can we collaborate somehow with Spreadfirefox since they are using Drupal anyway? - they owe us a GPL favour for that ;)
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iDonny - Web CMS Development, Design, and Web Marketing Advice
Good idea SFx, let's see what we can do ;)
Hey ;)
Sounds like a great idea iDanny. I've been reading this thread this evening and I'm interested in helping out any way I can.
Allow me to introduce myself, my name is Ian Hayward, MD of Glaxstar, maintainers of SFx. (Pro Bono)
I'm also lead contributor Admin on the site, let's see what we can do for Drupal over there for you.
For starters I'll go talk with Jamey Boje and Asa Dotzler and see if we can come up with some good old fashioned exposure for 4.7 realease on the homepage, we've got some space down the right hand side, let me see what I can do as a thank you promotion.
wyt?
- Ian Hayward
I keep begging for people to
I keep begging for people to write up tutorials and begineer guides.... perhaps while walking people through your second or third setup you could note the common question/pattern/path and write it up for the handbook?
-Steven Peck
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Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
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Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
Scripting group?
Sepeck I know you are now looking after the documentation of Drupal is there a documentation group? One of my roles at work is to script problems that users come across so they dont reach my team again. Scripting is not the most fun job in the world but if it is done right it saves everyone alot of time to work on nicer things. The joys of working is support.
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http://www.stephenhendry.net
I am one of a few people and
I am one of a few people and happen to be one of the more visible folks. I assume scripting means documentation of a sort. See the contribute link and on the left are links for the documentation list. For me, the last 2 weeks and the next 2 are low ebbs of Drupal activity on my part because of work, but others are doing things. More than happy to have more content added.
Here's a list of folks who have contributed pages too.
http://drupal.org/node/14205
-Steven Peck
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Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
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Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
Focus on modules and themes
How about focusing on the modules and themes first and get as many as possible ready for the release?
Drupal lives from the richness of its modules and popular and important modules like the image and flexinode module are not ready yet for the 4.7 release (maybe they are in CVS).
Also with the last RC3 release I noticed some changes within the PHPTemplate engine and the included templates, so I am not sure if all templates tagged for 4.7 actually work fine.
I know, these are not part of the official release, but if you want to start a marketing offensive, you don't want to loose new users when they run into problems with the modules and themes.
We would all appreciate
We would all appreciate testing of modules and themes whether tagged for 4.7 or not.
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Drupal services
My Drupal services
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Drupal services
My Drupal services
If someone has a nice
If someone has a nice girlfriend and a digital camera we could do like firefox :
htp://www.Femfox.com - The Place for Glamorous Firefox Marketing
If nobody has a nice girlfriend or no digital camera, we can ask the folks at femfox or maybe webchick can do some shoots with her webcam :-)
Like this?
Like this picture of Sarah that was floated round Drupal a few months back?
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http://www.stephenhendry.net
FemDrupal?
Hey, if there is real interest in this, one of my girlfriends just volunteered.
Check out http://keltickefiwolf.livejournal.com/155459.html and see if she'll do. We also happen to know a couple of semi-professional digital photographers here in town. Hmmmm...
What kind of shots were you thinking of? Perhaps posing in little but a Drupal shirt? Hell, how about a "hot girls of Drupal" site? Heh! I'm tempted to go register the domain right now.
:-D
Also, as a webcomic, I plan to start pimping 4.7 heavily to the rest of the webcomics community once Jeff finishes updating his comic module and I can finish switching my site over (already started with the forums and news).
Rob Hamm
http://www.bluecrashkit.com
http://www.bookmuncher.com
technical merits
We could also just continue along the lines of technical merits that have worked for us so far.
-Steven Peck
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Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
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Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
campaign
while i have nothing against fexfox a like sites, it is something other ppl can do besides the "official" marketing campaign.
i dont think we -the drupal community- should go for this "hey look at this girl" approach. first of all a campaign has to fit the big picture, you cant change overnight from a quality code site to a sexy image site (or v.v.!).
second, I dont think it would add anything from our inner strenght, if an ad has a nice girl on the car like it was done in the 60ies you know that the car is not good enough to promote itself and they needed extra healights.
last, i dont think we will get the attention from the people we are trying to address; hackers, bloggers, developers and the corporate people vs teenagers.
but having said that, anyone is free to do the marketing your own way. my daughter is nearly 2 now and loves the drupal icon and the tshirts i have. and the camera loves her as well (through the eyes of her dad :-) so i might add her as well wearing nothing but a drupal shirt.
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groets
bertb
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groets
bert boerland
Actually, no...
Well, yes, that was the idea as initially presented--Drupal users doing this, as opposed to the official Drupal site. This is more an idea of something fun that users can do to show support, as opposed to a suggestion for the official main "push." Look at the femfox site as the example.
Whether or not such a user-driven "sexy girl" campaign would indeed benefit Drupal specifically, you're making a very sweeping and completely uninformed statement here. For one, you're saying that there are no good Porsches or Lamborghinis, since each model has had at least one campaign with a sexy girl. Might as well extend this to any product with any sort of eye-catching content, or humorous ad, as well, unless directly related to the features of the product. "Well, if they have to entertain me in their ads, that means their product isn't good enough to promote itself."
I respond to feature lists and content, yes, but an eye-catching graphic will draw my eye to the content more quickly. The "sexy girl" bit is just one item in a bag of tricks--like the cute mascot logo (which Drupal has)--to initially attract the human eye so that content may be presented. In this case, the content being presented using Drupal also gets across the idea that yes, this CMS can be used for fun things. While this should be self-evident, it isn't unless one sees examples.
The point of marketing campaigns like that isn't to say, "get this because of the sexy girl," but to grab initial attention with an image. One reason we have an advertising industry is that most people don't find their attention grabbed by a dry list of features. I challenge you to name one national brand whose advertisements consist entirely of unornamented text extolling the product's virtues. You won't find one. Even Drupal, as I noted earlier, has a cute mascot logo.
The point of any graphic element in marketing has, among other purposes, that of getting and holding eyes on the page (or screen, or whatever) long enough for the viewer to start looking at the presented information. Bulleted feature lists and examples of use are great, but most people won't look very closely at them without something to draw the eye. It also helps establish image. For instance, in this case the idea would be to establish that all Drupal users are not pale bespectacled male geeks who speak in binary (and yes, that is how many envision us).
Rob Hamm
http://www.bluecrashkit.com
http://www.bookmuncher.com
You're right, of course,
You're right, of course, that Drupal's technical merits are what wins people to it. I think what we're talking about here is more of a goofy side campaign to get across the idea that not only is Drupal a great CMS, but there are fun people in the community as well. A lot of people (including me, at first) have been intimidated by the image of the serious codemeister.
The whole idea of campaigns like the one we're talking about is to initially attract the eyes of people who might not otherwise have even considered how much easier Drupal could make things for them. I've spoken to people with large, convoluted, hand-coded static HTML sites who didn't even know what a CMS was, let alone how it could help them.
Rob Hamm
http://www.bookmuncher.com
I understand the idea of
I understand the idea of cheescake, but if you do that one, then you're going to have to do the 'beefcake' method too and frankly neither campaign methods seems to match CMS software but what do I know about marketing.
-Steven Peck
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Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
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Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
I understand the idea of
*grins* Heh! I'm reminded of something a developer said in another thread--paraphrased, "I'm doing this for my own amusement. I don't HAVE to do anything."
Actually, I doubt I'll do either one, but it's fun to talk about. And yeah, maybe it doesn't match up.
To me, though, the main idea would be to show, "Hey, look! There are fun, wacky people doing stuff with Drupal, and ya know this cool site that you're looking at initially because of the sexy babe (or guy)? Yeah--All done in Drupal, my friend. And while you're here, take a look at some other completely different sites built with Drupal." So that when the viewer gets ready to choose a CMS, he or she will think back to how full-featured and flexible Drupal must be to build such a variety of sites.
Rob Hamm
http://www.bluecrashkit.com
http://www.bookmuncher.com
"Hot Girls On Drupal" would be sexist and offensive
I'm glad to see people moving away from the "Hot Girls on Drupal" direction. I would find it sexist and offensive. Would make me want to stay away from Drupal and Drupal people.
for an approach that I think would be cool, please see comment below.
http://drupal.org/node/59170#comment-112870
You're entitled to be
You're entitled to be offended by anything you wish, of course, and it may indeed not be the best idea, but sexist? Could you explain how the idea of showing that not all Drupal users are pale male geeks, or using attractive people of either gender to promote a product either discriminates on the basis of gender or promotes gender stereotyping, and thus fits the definition of sexism?
Am I just too convinced of gender equality to see the sexism in showing smart pretty people of either gender using a CMS to fight the stereotype of all webmasters being pale unhealthy males? And are you going to avoid using Firefox because of the Femfox site now?
If you'd like to continue this discussion, this isn't the place for it, so just use my contact form, but unless there is a new definition of sexism of which I (and Webster's) is unaware, we're talking about your personal twitches (to which you are entitled, of course), not sexism.
Rob Hamm
http://www.bluecrashkit.com
http://www.bookmuncher.com
LOL...
There's just a tad of rationalization in there. LOL
KnowProSE.com
OpenDepth.com
sexism
Rob, treating both sexes exactly the same doesn't mean there's no sexism. If it were that simple, all companies could simply declare that both female and male employees get 3 paid days off when they have a child and then have to use their vacation/whatever.
but the google-bombing discussion is the one to focus on here.
right!
It definitely is sexist. Besides, it's so alcohol commercial/nascar promotion like. Let Drupal sell itself on merit.
I guess you and Mtal will
I guess you and Mtal will have to argue with Webster's that sexist means what you want it to mean instead of what the dictionary says it does. Exploitative I'll give you, and, "alcohol commercial/nascar promotion like," but sexist? Please make sure a word means what you think it does before using it, especially when you're using it to criticize.
Also, in case you didn't notice, we've (afaik) already abandoned that idea for other reasons.
Rob Hamm
http://www.bluecrashkit.com
http://www.bookmuncher.com
+1
that using women's bodies to push drupal is sexist.
I'm sorry you think so. As I
I'm sorry you think so. As I said--take it up with Webster's if you disagree with the definition of the word, as you obviously do.
Rob Hamm
http://www.bluecrashkit.com
http://www.bookmuncher.com
Who uses Webster???
Why don't we use the definitive reference instead of Webster? (I'm sure you know what that is?) Sexist is the adjective relating to sexism. From the OED, sexism is
Some of the previous suggestions about using photographs to sell Drupal do, indeed, revert them to stereotypical roles. For example, photographs of women "posing in little but a Drupal shirt" (your suggestion). We could simply show men and women working together in marketing footage in normal business environments and not be reducing women to sex objects.
OED and Webster
cel4145, thank you for your extremely effective argument.
Rob,
what puzzles me is you hammer and hammer on a point, and have never even bothered to check it. Here is the webster's definition of sexism
sexism
One entry found for sexism.
Main Entry: sex·ism
Pronunciation: 'sek-"si-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: 1sex + -ism (as in racism)
1 : prejudice or discrimination based on sex; especially : discrimination against women
2 : behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex
- sex·ist /'sek-sist/ adjective or noun
source: http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/sexism
This supports exactly the same point cel4145 makes above.
Whatever you do, please do not attract a flood of users to drupal.org who can't be bothered to check the simplest things through simply looking it up.
What boggles my mind is that
What boggles my mind is that others, especially you, keep hammering away after I've stated several times that, as far as I know, the idea has been abandoned, and why particularly in this forum, after I asked you to use my contact form instead (yours is disabled). Again--As far as I know, no one is doing it. It isn't being done.
And actually I did look it up--you have so far failed to answer a) how the idea would foster discrimination against women (especially after we expanded it to include males) or b) how it would foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex, since part of the idea is to break the stereotype of the ugly geek--we were talking about showing smart geeky women who were also attractive.
And again I state, as I have stated before, this idea that you're asking me not to implement was already abandoned, and indeed (I know I said this in the first paragraph of the post, but I've said it in other posts as well. I'm hoping if I keep repeating the point it will eventually sink in. Again, as far as I know, the idea has been abandoned. Get it? Here--one more time. We, or at least I, am not doing it.), wasn't even suggested by me.
This entire thread is gettinng ridiculous. If you absolutely must find a cause whose time is past, I would be happy to supply a list. Maybe you could go picket in favor of pulling out of Viet Nam, or protest Lisa Loeb (obviously a sexist by your standards) posing scantily clad on the cover of an album back in the late 90s. Maybe you could take news of the New World to Europe. Slightly less timely, but you don't seem to be concerned about whether an issue is active.
This is my last post on the subject--My final effort to explain to you that this idea you're so concerned with was abandoned before you got on your high horse about it. We (or at least I) am not doing it? Get it yet? I hope so, because I'm tired of repeating myself. If you still have trouble understanding this, get someone else to explain it to you. Go find another crusade.
Rob Hamm
http://www.bluecrashkit.com
http://www.bookmuncher.com
downside
the downside (and upside) of the internet -or uncontrolled media in general- is that a discussion will go the way participants want it to go, not the initiater. this thread however is /way/ offtopic so please lets discuss this on another site and discuss here what we can do to promote drupal's upcomming release and what you can and will do to help
--
groets
bertb
--
groets
bert boerland
glad you've promised to stop attacking people
glad you've promised to stop attacking people (in you one last attacking post) on this thread. If you didn't include an attack with every post, I would have dropped this after the first post. Now we can go on and do as b just asked, and focus on the task at hand.
lol...
Here's someone who's clearly never seen a picture of me. :P
Anyway, I find this kind of tactic sort of the 'lowest common denominator' in marketing strategies -- using sex to sell something/get attention/whatever. As others pointed out, Drupal has plenty of technical merit upon which it can stand on its own, and that's something that's "sexy" and attractive to _all_ cultures/genders/etc. ;)
I don't really buy the goal of showing diversity within our community; there are still way more male to female members here, especially coders, and _especially_ core contributors (c'mon geek girls, where are you?!). And a little hint: putting up a FemFox kind of thing ('DivaDrupal' ?) is generally *not* the way to attract more women contributors to the site. ;)
I'll see your lol and raise you an omfg!
I think the part of the idea that appealed to me most was showing people who don't look like stereotypical computer geeks, to get acros the idea that this is something non-geeks can use successfully.
Something that would serve the same purpose, though, might be a thumbnailed listing at Drupal.org or at an independent user-run site showing some of the hipper and/or more unusual sites, both in terms of site design and content. For instance, if there are nicely done tattoo parlor sites using Drupal, or hot rod customizers, or things like that. For my part, it is my intention to be among the first to run a webcomic on Drupal 4.7, but my strip isn't that cool or hip and might not be such a good inclusion.
I have the server space, motivation, and (just barely) the Drupal skill for such a site, but I don't feel it is my place as a newby to produce it.
Something I WOULD be comfortable putting together myself is a Drupal topsites list if others in the community think that would be a good idea. I'm pretty sure the vote modules already out there would be pretty easy to bend to that end, so people could just submit their Drupal sites, put a vote button on their sites, and the cream will (hopefully) rise to the top. It works for webcomics, for the most part.
I'm not much of a codemeister these days (I was considered something of a whiz back in the days of HTML 3.2. This gives away my age, eh?), but I've been trying to think of some contribution I could make to the community besides standing on the sidelines and cheering. (For one thing, I don't want to wear that damn cheerleader outfit again--it scratches.) As a veteran of the Drupal community, what do you think of the Drupal topsites list idea?
As for the DivaDrupal thing (and that'd be a nice name for it); Yeah, yeah... I write comedy to pay for my groceries, so I guess among other things, I saw more fun and humor in the idea than most people. For instance, my first reaction to femfox was to crack up at it. Not because of the model--she was lovely!--but because the idea of a cheesecake site to promote a web browser just amused me to no end. My girls busted up when they saw it as well. We all thought it was brilliant.
Rob Hamm
http://www.bluecrashkit.com
http://www.bookmuncher.com
Drupal sites
Such a site (http://top.drupalsites.net/ and a number of others) already exists.
--
Tips for posting to the forums.
When your problem is solved, please post a follow-up to the thread you started.
*kablinks*
Well I'll be! Thanks for the info.
Sorry, man, just trying to think of something I can do. Maybe I'd better go find a cheerleader outfit after all. I refuse to shave my legs, though, so it won't be pretty.
Rob Hamm
http://www.bluecrashkit.com
http://www.bookmuncher.com
Also, check...
The gallery:
http://drupal.org/handbook/drupal/gallery
A collection of website screenshots:
http://drupal.org/image/tid/41
galllery page
Maybe it's temporary, but a number of the screen shots appear broken on the gallery page.
I'd like to suggest again that this sort of "welcome to drupal" resource needs to be more front and center- I've been browsing drupal.org for a while and also never noticed it.
---
Work: BioRAFT
drupal pixelated
download the druplicon logo and paste it into the sumbit button. now it would be great if we could get something like this for real! have an adienace of a couple of 100 man that hold up a board whcih makes a drupal sign... is there anyone who thinks he can do something like that?
--
groets
bertb
--
groets
bert boerland
better talk to Dries about a "new to Drupal" button on front
You all better talk to Dries and get a "new to Drupal?" button on top of the front page and links to top 10 questions if you plan to drive all this traffic here.
-----
Drupal ecommerce, at www.drupalecommerce.com is a new site written using language that Drupal beginners and intermediate users can understand. Quick links to "Modules."
Well, I'll write up a storm.
My site gets syndicated all over, so... working on a lot of Drupal customization these days (wish the pay were better, LOL) so I'll continue giving back to the community in that way.
KnowProSE.com
OpenDepth.com
It's hard to do this...
When I'm fumbling around trying to upgrade a module (when I have never done so before) - the Interwiki module is driving me nuts with the new API and everything else. The Quotes module is kludged into working. Some PHP/.MySQL scripts I had working are no longer working because the node table got broken out... I have yet to understand why that was done. I thought for certain that the node table would be self contained. Oops. The release definitely thought differently. Ouch.
Was this a release, or did it escape? Sure, the modules aren't important for the core release, but they are Pretty Damned Important for people who use Drupal... and I cannot find a nice thing to say right now about 4.7 because I'm busy trying to get the old features I was using in 4.6.6 to work.
I may simply go back to 4.6.6. Without adequate support for the existing modules, some hard core Drupal users like myself will not want their site functionality handicapped because modules aren't up to date. And before someone with more talent with communicating with a text editor than human beings replies: I am trying to get the modules to work, and I am looking and trying to upgrade modules myself.
This is a big hole in releases that needs to be looked into. I like Drupal, but this release may have been a bridge too far for some users. Today, I will decide if it was a bridge too far for me... I use Drupal so I can focus on content, and now that my content is hosed because of non-working modules and deviations in database structure (which I see no apparent use for, if I'm missing something please lighten the blow) I have to make hard decisions.
I can't write anything nice about 4.7 at this point. Not until my site reflects that 4.7 is working right and is as functional as 4.6, and that does include modules from a user standpoint.
Now I have to monkey with code for a period, then decide whether to roll back or not. Not good marketing.
KnowProSE.com
OpenDepth.com
Hmm
No one forced you to upgrade. In fact, upgrading should be a carefully researched 'project', in which you first establish whether all the required modules have been released for 4.7 or progressed far enough in CVS that they are useable.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be communicating with Eclipse.
--
Tips for posting to the forums.
When your problem is solved, please post a follow-up to the thread you started.
No, nobody forced me to upgrade.
Hopefully Eclipse will show you some love.
Now, if you expect people to market Drupal, you better fill in some of the holes while you're communing with Eclipse. I'm filling in some, but don't have the luxury of time for smarmy comments. If you actually want to help, you might want to consider not responding like that to long time Drupal users and advocates. Releases are always tense. My 2 pence was constructive as far as marketing, and also functionality that the user demographic is interested in.
That would be the first step to a brilliant marketing strategy.
KnowProSE.com
OpenDepth.com
Incidentally, while you were typing that...
I got the Interwiki module working with 4.7 thanks to this patch.
Thanks for your kind words and help. Perhaps in the future you could help a user look instead of berating them.
On to the next problem. Say hi to Eclipse. ;-)
KnowProSE.com
OpenDepth.com
google-bombing
how about google-bombing? I seem to recall that it was very effective earlier. We can all put the words "Drupal" near "best CMS" on our websites, announce the release, and link to Drupal.org. I think last time Drupal got to #2 right? This time let's get Drupal to number 1.
Don't know how Google reacts to this. But I recall that this was very effective in linking a certain president with a certain word. 2 years later, it's still true. But perhaps Google favors linking that president with that word.
Not a big fan of conscious Google bombing...
We want people to say, "Drupal is great" instead of, "What's that blue water drop and why am I here?" when they get to the Drupal site.
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Why would Mtal's idea be a
Why would Mtal's idea be a bad thing, Taran? I understand it fits the official definition of "bombing," but...
If the link is associated with the words 'Drupal' and 'best CMS,' wouldn't the search results be pretty focused on people searching for the best CMS? If so, there'd be no wondering why one was at the Drupal site. It'd just go to show that enough people think Drupal is indeed the best CMS.
I thought the problems came about with indiscriminate and unrelated terms being associated with links--the way adult sites have used common search terms that have nothing to do with their content to try to raise their search rankings. Specifically, isn't the real problem with comment spammers and such? In this case, with the Drupal link being associated with the term "best CMS," wouldn't it only be relevant searches that would turn this up?
Please educate me if I'm just not thinking about this clearly. That's been known to happen.
;-)
Rob Hamm
http://www.bluecrashkit.com
http://www.bookmuncher.com
you're thinking clearly...
I just see it as a style issue. We want people to say Drupal. To dream of a masked waterdrop. I don't know that Google Bombing does that. Sure, it gets traffic to a site, but you want people to stay on the site, which leads to the Drupal front page...
I dunno, it's not my style. If I write something comparing content management systems, I might declare Drupal as 'the best CMS', but I think it's more important to boost the name Drupal than to get incidental traffic to the site. Anyone can do a Google Bomb. And if that happens, the other CMS folks might do it. So all that changes is the level of confusion, and a fight over Google search engine popularity, and...
I dunno. I'd rather focus on Drupal than gaming a system that anyone else can game. It's like nuclear warfare. If we press the big red button, they press the big red button. I don't know if I'm making sense to you, but if this becomes a FireFox cheesefest, count me out.
KnowProSE.com
OpenDepth.com
have an answer ready
the key is to have something for them to read when they arrive. a "new to Drupal?" button on top of the front page with a link to top 10 questions, including why is Drupal the best CMS. otherwise, it's like postering a flyer everywhere saying coming to this party. people show up, only to find no host, no food, and no clue as to why they got the flyer.
-----
Drupal ecommerce, at http://www.drupalecommerce.com is a new site written using language that Drupal beginners and intermediate users can understand. Quick links to "Modules" and "Module Groupings."
Sounds good to me...
Hm... Although it fits the technical definition of "bombing," (and in case you haven't noticed, I'm a stickler for proper definitions) this doesn't seem like a bad idea at all. After all, the only people who would get that link are those already searching for the best CMS, correct? I mean, it isn't as though we'd be spamming or using irrelevant terms--Just showing how many people consider Drupal to be the best CMS out there. And frankly, I love promoting things I feel are high-quality (like Drupal).
Can anyone shoot down this idea?
Rob Hamm
http://www.bluecrashkit.com
http://www.bookmuncher.com
OK, here it is.
If every group of CMS supporters does the exact same thing, presto magico, you've wasted effort and you're in the same spot that you started from, only for a short period you think you had some progress when all you did was raise the foundation of competition.
It's like blasting your stereo back at your neighbour. It just gets louder.
KnowProSE.com
OpenDepth.com
Very good point
I see your point. Just like, although I put links to my webcomic and fledgling literary site wherever I can, I think that 1) I'd cringe at the idea of being seen as someone who just played the sytem to get free traffic and 2) as you said, if I can do it, everyone can.
That said, I will still link to Drupal, of course, and will gladly tout it as the best CMS I have found, but will refrain from any coordinated effort designed to artificially inflate its ranking.
Rob Hamm
http://www.bluecrashkit.com
http://www.bookmuncher.com
get out the vote
I don't care if we do google-bombing, but I don't think it's wrong, as long as people who put "best CMS" and "Drupal" on their site believes it's true. Then it can turn into which CMS has the largest number of loyal supporters. It's like a political party rallying up supporters.
-----
Drupal ecommerce, at http://www.drupalecommerce.com is a new site written using language that Drupal beginners and intermediate users can understand. Quick links to "Modules" and "Module Groupings."
Yes, and no.
Why push politics when Drupal stands on it's own merits? Remember, the purpose of marketing is to inform and influence new users. New users aren't the 'loyal users'. New users haven't voted yet. If you're depending on a snowball, be wary of other people with snowballs... again, anyone can do it.
Doing things in the hope that Drupal will have the most amount of loyal users creates something like an economic bubble. When the bubble pops, everything comes crashing down.
And another thing I'd like to point out... while everyone is talking about attracting more users, Drupal will need more developers/documentors/advocates as well. In a commercial product, those people aren't as necessary. This is an open source project, and the tried and tested method of advancing an open source project is rapid progress, consolidation, rapid progress, consolidation - all happening rapidly. A project can fail with too much progress in one stage where consolidation slows things down...
Drupal's awesome. We know that. We just want other people to know that, which means the network has value because the network is what influences. Compromising the value of the network is not something that helps in the long term...
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OpenDepth.com
Documentation is key
As a relatively new user, I'll add my $0.02 that more thorough and step-by-step documentation would make Drupal an easier sell. I've added a couple Handbook pages already,and I'll try to do more. I realize that writing documentation is much less fun than coding, but not all of us have enough experience with PHP and SQL to just look at the code and grok the functionality.
As one example, I'd like to see some more detailed site recipes (down to which themes to start with, where to put the blocks, etc) for so that new users can get up to speed quickly and then go back and figure out how to customize.
I also give a strong vote for the "New to Drupal" button on the front page, or some such place for new users to find common questions and answers.
---
Work: BioRAFT
Excellent! Once Jeff
Excellent! Once Jeff finishes the 4.7 webcomic module in a week or so (thus enabling me to complete my move to Drupal) I'll be happy to write a webcomic site recipe.
Rob Hamm
http://www.bluecrashkit.com
http://www.bookmuncher.com
This is just awesomely brilliant.
I mean... REALLY brilliant. I wish I had the capacity to do more than stick figures. :-)
KnowProSE.com
OpenDepth.com
Thanks. :-) Rob
Thanks.
:-)
Rob Hamm
http://www.bluecrashkit.com
http://www.bookmuncher.com
a couple of suggestions
here are just a few suggestions:
1) SlashDot
2) PR Web
3) Write a Review Feature Story about Drupal 4.7 for offline paper based computer Mags
4) Explore all avenues of Free Avertising (we're non-profit - this should help)
5) Send out a Press Release to all Computer & Business publications
6) Send out a Press Release to all newspapers with computer article sections (hope for interviews)
7) See if we can get Dries, Steven and Robert in front of Interviewers (audio and video based interviews - internet based and non-internet based)
8) Google and Yahoo should be open to running a news article for at least one day
For the longer articles I would come out with a human interest twist. By this, I suggest we go back to the day we lost the Server and bring it forward to the release of 4.7. This is a very crude headline, but something like:
"Drupal from crash and burn to the Hottest OpenSource CMS in less than a year"
Tell the story of how the Internet community jumped in and helped Drupal find a new home and make a come back.
Drupal has a very strong human interest history which can really help with new exposure.
NOTE: I should also mention, we have no plan in place to address a surge of newbies
Slashdot effect
If the announcement does appear on Slashdot, it drupal.org resiliant enough to not get slashdotted?
It may be an idea to publish a detailed announcement off-site (which can cope with Slashdot traffic) and encourage people to submit the Slashdot story linking to the off-site announcement.
Also make sure the 'throttle' module is working and configured to handle the traffic for those people who do then click-through to drupal.org.
People may not think much of Drupal if their first impression is a 'Server busy' error message!
heh
Drupal has survived several Slashdot'ings on older hardware.
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
but
but though I personlly dont give much about more about /., /. will also have grown and the /. effect will be bigger. we do have /much/ and more more hardware now, so it wont be a problem. still it would be nice to ccordinate a slashdot posting and the release in general with our hosting party. so no release during the weekend and prefarbly from GMT-4 till -7 or so?
--
groets
bertb
--
groets
bert boerland
5.0
if you all really plan to do big pr events, I think you should throw in a nice default theme (or at the very least swap out the grey in bluemarine) and call it 5.0
-----
Drupal ecommerce, at http://www.drupalecommerce.com is a new site written using language that Drupal beginners and intermediate users can understand. Quick links to "Modules" and "Module Groupings."
Blogswarm
I think one effective component would be encouraging people to write up the 4.7 release on their own sites. Blogswarm. Embrace the Cluetrain and just write about Drupal. Encouraging everyone to write about their thoughts, experiences, feelings, or just a mention would help a lot. This isn't Google bombing because everyone's not using the same link text or writing some Stepford Wives version of publicity. This is just getting the buzz going.
And I mean doing this especially in the non-tech areas -- getting the word out to people with all sorts of interests. Getting political bloggers, food bloggers, fashion bloggers, music bloggers, hobby bloggers, law bloggers, mommybloggers ... everyone to sound off on Drupal, and that goes a long way.
This is a new world. We here in Open Source are not living in the hit-driven economy. This is about the long tail. This is about trusted referrals. There are tens of thousands of Drupal sites out there, connecting with their own readers, their own communities. That's a lot of voices.
Laura
_____ ____ ___ __ _ _
design, snap, blog
_____ ____ ___ __ _ _
Laura Scott :: design » blog » tweet
Agreed. I think some of us
Agreed. I think some of us (including me) just got carried away with the idea of getting attention for Drupal by any means possible, which obviously isn't the right way to go.
:-)
Rob Hamm
http://www.bluecrashkit.com
http://www.bookmuncher.com
Well, the core of the cluetrain...
is that the market is a discussion. So that's dead on. How it's done..., well.... see the comment I made about the Drupal discussion.
KnowProSE.com
OpenDepth.com
WorldChanging.com article...
I had nothing to do with this article on WorldChanging.com, but it demonstrates a good marketing strategy:
Talk about what you can do with Drupal. For example, one of my clients is using it on an intranet site for managing inhouse data - including scanned images. I'll be writing an article about that over the next few weeks... creative commons, of course... articles about how Drupal can be used appeal to the imagination of people, and while they don't answer all questions they do get people asking the right questions, the core question is:
Is Drupal right for me?
Demonstrating what it is right for is probably the best way to market...
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Release Drupal 4.7.0 announced at digg.com
@ drupal.org
- http://drupal.org/node/61210
@ digg.com
- http://digg.com/software/New_version_of_Drupal_is_out
___________________
discover new oceans
lose sight of the shore
new to drupal page
I know that Microsoft is not popular in open source circles, but they do a nice job on their asp.net page.
http://www.asp.net/Default.aspx?tabindex=0&tabid=1
look at the prominent new to .asp net block
1) why asp .net. If you click on this it leads to a nice explanation.
2) get asp.net
3) learn asp.net
4a) quickstarts
A "new to Drupal" box could have similar content
Drupal ecommerce, at http://www.drupalecommerce.com
http://www.drupalecommerce.com/troubleshooting
http://www.drupalecommerce.com/modulegroupings
http://www.drupalecommerce.com/47vs46
http://www.drupalecommerce.com/compared
Co-branding & advertising for Drupal
I have not tracked this post for some time, so forgive me if I am repeating a suggestion.
I will be co-branding the gifts that I/we give to our Web CMS clients and prospects with some kind of 'powered by Drupal' line to give credit to Drupal and actually give more power to our solutions (I believe that being associated with Drupal gives anyone lots of credibility).
I think that doing more of this can help get Drupal out there to the masses (it's already a force).
-----
iDonny - Web Content Management System Design, Development. & CRM
Actively promoting Drupal through social bookmarking services
Would not be a good idea to activate service_links.module here on drupal.org?
So starting from the core, latest news, modules, themes, handbooks can easily post to the soc.bookmark services direct from this site?
Many Drupal users are bookmarking Drupal on some of them and its can bee seen already wit a search the `SBservices but with service_links.module
http://drupal.org/node/40790 activated it can be easier to 'social bookmark' core of drupal information with the content of the core information of Drupal right from this site
its everyone's knowledge but here are major social bookmarking services
http://www.technorati.com/tags/drupal
http://www.newsvine.com/drupal
http://digg.com/
http://del.icio.us/
https://ma.gnolia.com
http://diigo.com
http://www.linkagogo.com/
http://www.tagground.com/
http://reddit.com/
http://swicki.eurekster.com/
http://www.furl.net/
http://www.netvouz.com/
http://rollyo.com/
http://sandbox.sourcelabs.com/livemarks/
http://www.rawsugar.com/
http://www.simpy.com/
http://www.spurl.net/
http://unalog.com/
http://www.i89.us/
http://www.wink.com/
http://trainque.com/tagland/
http://www.bmaccess.net/
http://www.butterflyproject.nl/
http://blummy.com/
promoting with social network
Nice list of social bookmarking sites, perhaps create a squidoo web 2.0 network of drupal voices, then group these drupal bookmarkers with other bookmarking sites' drupalers as "network' or friends which then attract traffic within squidoo to make it rank higher in the SEO that would expand the wave into the SE results. The hardest thing I can think of is the coordination of all these bookmarkers...what is their incentive?... Perhaps a contest of some sort.
Eric.Y
Melbourne Australia
my garden blog... should do some work on it.