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By Dries on
Every year, I try to communicate the "Drupal Zeitgeist" in at least one of my "State of Drupal" presentations. To help me capture the State of Drupal for my presentation at DrupalCon Szeged next month, I'd like to invite you all to take part in the State of Drupal 2008 survey that I created. The goal of the survey is to better understand our needs and to help prioritize our efforts. If you can't attend DrupalCon Szeged, don't worry; I'll share all results after the conference.
Now, fill out the survey and help shape the future of Drupal!
Comments
done!!!
done!!! Drupal Rocks...
I missed the Zend Framework
I missed the Zend Framework and Perl as options for question 8. Seems to be true that the real meaning of PHP is "People Hate Perl" ;)
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ramiro.org
Results
Will the results be published ? I sure hope they will do, it would be nice to know what the community wants... Also, it would be very nice to post some conclusions on this survey, and what changes will this bring, based on what the community voted.
Results
___________________
It’s in the detaιls…
"Enter some personal information"
Any reason why you decided to make this not anonymous?
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John Forsythe
Need reliable Drupal hosting?
I'm curious about that too.
I'm curious about that too.
No privacy policy?
Entering personal information is fine as long as you can state that the information will not be used to publish the results and that the personal information will not be used beyond the purpose of the survey. It is the lack of this privacy policy that lead me to decide not to fill out this survey.
Couldn't you exclude those
Couldn't you exclude those details or use bogus data?
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How to override HTML in Drupal 6
You are missing the point, I
You are missing the point, I am afraid. In fact, you are missing both points.
Actually, the UI is a bit
Actually, the UI is a bit confusing. I only set 'Country' to be required. The fields 'Name' and 'Company' are not required. Even if you chose to fill in name and company, I'll make sure not to share those.
Developer platform or end-user tool? Both!
In fact, Dries, I didn't want to choose between 'developer platform' or 'end-user tool'... but there was no radio button for 'both'. However I think Drupal must be both a developer platform and an end-user tool. Drupal is definately more than an end-user tool: otherwise, why would people care so much for CCK, Views, Devel and all those othe modules that contribute to Drupal's flexibility? However, if we can't use this development platform to create excellent end-user tools, it's worthless. The recent usablility tests clearly illustrate that installing Drupal is not a garuantee (but IMHO a very good starting point) for a usable end-user tool.
I totally agree
That question was a stumbling block for me too. I need the flexibility to develop something that I can then hand over to my, erm, technically-challenged clients and have it run smoothly. I need to be able to idiot-proof, er, automate content publishing by having as much control for myself as possible.
Agree too.
I left that question unanswered, because my option – both! – was not available.
Durval Tabach
WYSIWYG Editor in Drupal, when?
This SIMPLE feature has asked again and again, but I doubt this will be in 7.x since no roadmap available (yes, this is drupal roadmap :) http://drupal.org/node/46638). Anyhow, Drupal is the best!
WYSIWYG isn't simple
I'm sorry, but this is not a "SIMPLE" feature. A lot of thought has to go in deciding which one to include and how it affects everything else.
Never mind that I don't like WYSIWYG editors to begin with. :P
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Übercart -- One cart to rule them all.
First of all.
please note that the link you provided is a roadmap that was made to be discussed at DrupalCon Vancouver 2006. I don't know if there's an official roadmap but there is an unofficial one, and the group handling is kinda silent so to speak. Second, it's not simple, an editor by itself is simple. Make a contributed module out of an existing stand alone WYSIWYG editor might be simple, but not as part of the core.
Maybe, finally... we use Webform?
Webchick's been on my case about this a couple times, wouldn't it be fitting if we used Webform for Drupal-related surveys rather than using survey monkey? Let me know what we need to make this happen. :)
Nathan Haug
creative graphic design w: quicksketch.org
& software development e: nate@quicksketch.org
Trouble with Form
Maybe Webform would be better. I am having trouble filing out the form. The boxes for checks work. But the circles for checks don't work. I click - it flashes the check mark and then it disappears. Probably a Javascript problem in OmniWeb - Mac OS 10.5. I'll try FireFox. :-(((
I had the same problem.
I had the same problem. There are two worse than failures here: one, not actually using something Drupal-based for the survey, and two, the survey site opts for those weird image-based things for checkboxes and radio buttons instead of normal form elements. I want to give my opinion, but at the same time, I'm not so invested in doing so that I'm ready to fight dumb web design to do it.
The form is just the beginning
not speaking for Dries but SurveyMonkey gives you neat graphical reports, bar charts, pie charts, etc. etc. I do love webform but, at the moment, it doesn't quite compare to the service that SurveyMonkey provides (and nor should it since its purpose is different).
Maybe webform could make use
Maybe webform could make use of the charts module (http://drupal.org/project/charts) for visualizing results.
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ramiro.org
ooh. good idea
ya that's all. its a good idea.
Would be great if Webform did this
I agree it would be nice to use webform for this, but it needs an major revamp in it's reporting and chart generation for it to be worthwhile.
Some of the questions in the survey needed a little more thought and more options. Such as the "End user" and "developer tool" as rightly pointed out above.
Overall, I am looking forward to the results.
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Dee
iScene Interactive :: iScene.eu
Random ordering of options
I noticed that survey monkey randomly orders the possible options to each question for each user/page load to keep the top items from being weighted due to positioning.
I haven't seen this option in webform, but this would be great start toward being a viable option for these type of surveys.
Done.
Done.
@Island Usurper I agree on
thouth: Even if WYSIWG is a mayor help for those Documenting (whatever) despite to risk to show here my incompetence as Programmer, as User I would prefer to see IMCE and BUeditor in core.
I guess advanteges:
1.easy of use
2.customize very simple
3.Code weight: good (I guess)
Cheers
Share your experience with the Open Source Community it's not only a choice but a Life Philosophy !!!
Some interesting A New Tutorial Site
Contact me for drupal projects in English, German, Italian, Drupal Hosting Support.
Question 20
nice... I had a hard time choose from all the numerous options.
Wow - thought provoking....
Great survey.
It really got my brain thinking of different aspects of development.
I'm really looking forward to seeing the results.
Thx,
-RB
Typo in #8
In question #8, there's a typo. Micosoft Sharepoint, instead of Microsoft Sharepoint. :-)
Not that it makes any difference for me, just to let you know.
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... Morpheus: What is "real"? How do you define "real"? If you 're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then "real" is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain...
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... Morpheus: What is "real"? How do you define "real"? If you 're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then "real" is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain...
Perhaps by next year...
...Drupal will be hot enough to actually do the survey with it. :-P
Please publish Privacy Policy
Dries, please publish a privacy policy for this survey.
Ditto re: Privacy Policy
What's SurveyMonkey's privacy policy?
What's yours?
Thanks for birthing a great community!
Done! I am looking forward
Done! I am looking forward to the Drupal Zeitgeist :)
Done as well. Yes, Drupal
Done as well. Yes, Drupal rocks ;) Wish I could contribute more myself!
Modal dialogs?
WTF?
I really, really, hate the user unfriendly modal dialogs. Why on earth is that an option for an important improvement? Why on earth does anyone want modal dialogs?
I don't get it.
Modal dialogs prohibits the use of other functionality in an application. For example the misreable MS Word has a modal dialog which lets you select a cross reference. Apart from its obvious short commings in that it can't be resized (try finding cross references in a super complex document), it also is modal. Each time I want to insert a cross reference I have to open it. I can't open it once and look through the document, insert my pointer where I need my next ref and just press the insert ref button.
Instead, every time I have to use the apropriate menu item/short cut, open the modal box, scroll down to the next reference in my que, try to find out what is what b/c of the non-resizeable nature of the modal dialog, and then insert my cross ref.
If I didn't have to open it, I would have the list scrolled to where I mostly would need it.
That is just one of the evils of modal dialogs. Come on, why on earth?
Paul K Egell-Johnsen
Paul K Egell-Johnsen
The reason I see modal
The reason I see modal dialogs as potential big win for Drupal, is that they follow the current administration workflow, just sped up. For example, the current interaction flow for deleting a menu item, is:
#1) Go to the menu page.
#2) Click on the delete link to get directed to the confirmation page.
#3) Click on the confirm to be redirected back to the menu page.
In terms of user interaction, this is identical to clicking on the delete link and having the confirmation form shown to you in a popup modal dialog. Except, with the popup it is faster and you don't lose your position or mental context on the menu page. I think of this as bringing the page to you.
And this approach follows Drupal's policy of progressive enhancement, since with javascript turned off, the delete link just takes you to the confirmation page.
This is good then ;)
Then I should have voted for it. But it should rather be called popup dialogs. Modal is when you are not allowed to do anything else except what is in the dialog; ie. closing off any other work on that item, like in some of the check in/check out modules where the locking locks yourself out...
Paul K Egell-Johnsen
Paul K Egell-Johnsen
Yeah, it is really easy to
Yeah, it is really easy to misuse modals and get in the user's way, but they can be quite the time saver if used correctly. That was why the working title of my Boston proposed talk was "Popup Dialogs, not just for evil any more". If you want to see a sample of an early prototype of what I am proposing, check out the screencast at: http://www.citris-uc.org/drupal_modal_dialogs
Module notification system?
I dunno if anyone would like this but I would love to have it in drupal.org. A notification for modules. Everyone module has an option for notification. And members can opt to monitor their favorite module by personal RSS feed. So everytime there's an update people will get notified by their personal RSS feed.
Just my USD 0.02 (considering the value of the currency... blah).
Ed
Developers must be stopped
These are not my words but the title of post that draw my attention when I joined drupal a year ago.
The poster was complaining about modules not following core development pace, documentation lack etc.
I started with D5.1 just to find-out soon that I had a CMS that just provided basic functionality. It was a quite a struggle to get the 5.x modules needed for the extra functionality. Luckily within a few months all the modules were upgraded to the 5-version, but had I done my homework I would have started with D4.7.
It seems to me that the situation with D6 is more critical. We have D6.3 already and still important contributed modules aren't available yet. Views and CCK are RC but if you look at the issue-que one can see that they are not ready yet to be put on a production site.
The problem -in my view- is that in the meantime many developers choose not to maintain the D5modules anymore. So on one side you can't get-away from D5 because the D6module is not available yet but on the otherside you have to leave D5 because active development for your module is taking place for the D6 version.
I have read Angie's explanation why something is not in core and I have read Dries' notes that drupal core should remain compact "because a simple blogger should be able to deploy drupal as well". Well I think you don't do drupal if you only want to blog. There are several utilities out there that are more suitable (easier) for this.
For me, one of the main things for D7 is that the contents of the drupal-core should be reviewed and expanded with the key-modules.
And no, drupal developers must NOT be stopped, they are doing a great job for which I'm very thankfull, but I understand the emotion that probally led abovementioned poster to the post.
There are quite a few Drupal
There are quite a few Drupal blogs. I guess you mean Wordpress, Movabletype or s9y when you talk about tools that are more suitable for blogging. But why should someone who knows Drupal well, not be able to use it for a simple blog site and learn another system? Maybe I want to start simple with a blog and later on add more functionality. Then it's perfect to start with Drupal and install modules as needed. Better than converting from Wordpress to Drupal.
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ramiro.org
100% Agree - New Versions Coming Out Too Quickly
I filled out this survey for the SOLE reason of telling the Powers That Be that they need to either slow down their new version development or find a way to make modules and themes backward compatible.
I have a whole bunch of sites running Drupal 5 and it looks like they will never be upgraded because the modules have not been updated. (Maybe a few have, but most have not, and so I have sites where one module that is mission critical holds back the upgrade.)
I've seen discussions over this issue before, and heard people poo-poo this complaint. Well, guess what, at a certain point, website developers are going to look for a platform where your site won't break or need a complete overhaul in terms of functionality if you want to upgrade. Joomla (last I checked) had worked to make themes backwards compatible in the least...I haven't used it recently so I don't know how it works when it comes to the add-ons, but at least they are FRIENDLY to the idea of backwards compatibility.
I would frankly much rather have the core Drupal team spending their free time getting important modules up to snuff with the latest version of Drupal than dashing off to make Drupal 7. With Drupal 6 modules in such a weak state, it's going to kill Drupal if modules aren't allowed to keep up with the development pace.
Slow down guys - we're not in a race here.
there is no rush
You are not enforced to upgrade to D6 yet. I guess D7 won't be out before summer 2009, because many developers are working to upgrade their modules and does not have the chance to work on D7.
So you still have a year to upgrade to D6.
and no, there will be no backward compatibility in Drupal, because that is one of the main strength of Drupal..
I disagree
"and no, there will be no backward compatibility in Drupal, because that is one of the main strength of Drupal.."
How on EARTH is that a "strength" of Drupal? Drupal on its own is not enough - it's the modules that make it a worthwhile CMS. If modules can't keep up with the development of the core, Drupal starts to become less than stellar as a CMS option.
strength
I said that many times, and will have to say it again : no backward compatibility! You will get the same answer from me and from other developers, does not matter how hard you ask for it..
There are some very simple rules in Drupal which makes it not only the best cms, but one of the best software in the world
1. if you have to hack core, you are doing something wrong
2. anyone can improve Drupal, and encouraged to do so
3. no backward compatibility between versions, keep it light and fast
4. always think about modularity, someone will try to extend the functionality of your code
5. keep the code unified
6. do not support broken code
I am sure there are some more which made the Drupal project so successful, but these are not widely used in software development. They seems to be irrelevant, but these makes the real difference..
can you name that one module, I am curious..
Twilight zone
Whell, that's the point. I think you will have to do so earlier because already developers are deciding not to put effort into D5modules.
So there will be a twilight zone where D6 is not ready yet and D5 is not fully developed.
I think D7-core should be expanded at least with CCK and View. Also some CCK-modules should be included in CCK-core.
And I agree, backwards compatibility is not a good thing if it restricts the progress.
more twilight zone
"So there will be a twilight zone where D6 is not ready yet and D5 is not fully developed."
This situation will be worsened if Drupal 7 comes out before D6 modules are settled, in which case, we'll have D5 as the only recent version with a variety of good modules to use, but the updated versions of these modules will be floating somewhere between 6 and 7. Drupal 7 will be where 6 started, with no modules at all, 6 will have a bunch of half-developed modules, and 5 will be left in the dust.
Not good for the future of Drupal.
creeping feeling
I totally agree. Something is seriously wrong in the way Drupal is growing and being maintained. Is there a lack of developers now that Drupal kind of moved towards a more business-like order. I'm no expert at all: but can the new new organization with Aquia and that have an detrimental influence on whether developers want to spend their private time on making Drupal usable for anything more advanced than a blog? I have no idea, but there is a creeping feeling that things are not going as planned.
I will try some other CMS for my next projects. Drupal 6 isn't a complete solution yet and some modules have been taken hostage by developers who have too much to do or seem to enjoy being in a position of power and telling noob to p*ss off if they can't program the module themselves: halting progress for a lot of people. This is not good. But then perhaps it's just me feeling this way and then no one will miss me! :)
de-briefing
I 'm not able to attend the DrupalCon, but I hope we will get a full de-briefing on Dries' point of view and what to expect on this issue.
Dries's feelings on backwards compatibility
http://buytaert.net/backward-compatibility
thanks
Thanks Angie, but I didn't raise the backwards compatibility-issue. I fully agree: As long as you preserve the data the code has to be able to move forward.
The question for Dries is:
"How is the community going to cope with the situation that the usability of drupal greatly depends on contributued modules, while these are not in core. The core-team is not able to control these modules, not regarding their quality nor regarding their ability to cope with the pace of development, also with respect to issue-support and issue-solving".
As a non-native-english speaker I hope I'have choosen my words correctly since I don't want to sound un-thankfull for what drupal is offering.
gardening..
I tend to agree, but, there are a lot of new initiatives that should get Drupal back on track. In particular the redesign of drupal.org. I don't think it's a case of a lack of developers. I think it's just bad community and project management.
Personally, I think Drupal is in limbo at the moment and I think things will become much clearer once Acquia release Carbon and the Drupal association follow through with their plans to improve various areas of the Drupal project.
I've been looking at some other CMSs recently and none come even close to the scalability and feature list of Drupal. Joomla! looks quite good, but, Drupal always comes out top when you get down to the detail. Typo3 and expression engine also look quite good and there are a few others in the same league, but, in terms of PHP/MYSQL based CMS frameworks, Drupal is still way out there on it's own. I have looked into ruby on rails, which is getting rave reviews and appears to be ahead in terms of UI features, but, that isnt based on php.
the bottom line is that, despite the problems, Drupal is still streets ahead of the rest of the possé. And bear in mind that all projects like this go through a 'limbo' or 'transition' phase like this...joomla went through it about 2 years ago and the less established projects will go through the same sticky period at some stage.
All projects go through seasons of growth, like spring and tough periods, like autumn & winter. In my opinion, Drupal is just coming out the other side of a tough 'transition' period and it's well worth sticking with it. It just needs a bit of garderning. A bit of pruning here and there and I think we will see another spring season of growth.
There are more than 600
There are more than 600 modules with releases for Drupal 6. Many of them offering advanced features. You can do a lot with Drupal 6 right now. The fact that there are no stable releases for CCK and Views doesn’t mean that you cannot create working web applications with Drupal.
You will find other CMS that have more features in core but you won’t find a system that will satisfy all your needs all the time. Development of complex software takes a lot of time and claiming that some developers halt progress because they enjoy putting off non developers is poor and ignorant.
Imagine you'd get hundreds of e-mails a day asking when X is finished and whether Y will be included. People ignoring information that is available do a great job in slowing down progress.
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ramiro.org
Done!
Done!
Also done!
(just not sure if "Staging Drupal" meang the same thing as "content staging", which I had to look up ...)
gpk
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www.alexoria.co.uk
gpk
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www.alexoria.co.uk
How long before the results
How long before the results are released?
Have yu read the original
Have you read the original post?
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ramiro.org
Spread the survey amongst local community members
If you want, it would be great if you could help spread word about the survey by posting a call for participation on your website/blog. By replicating the call for participation on sites that discuss content management systems in general or that are more targetted towards Drupal end-users (instead of Drupal developers), like many of the regional/local Drupal community websites (drupal.be, drupalfr.org, etc) -- I hope to get some additional insight. Thanks!