The Drupal 6 status update has spawned a very long thread with suggestions on how to improve the usability of Drupal. I figured I'd open up the discussion and let people post their favorite suggestions for usability improvements and aggregate them in a new thread. (Crazy strategy, I know.)
Personally, I'm mostly interested in the kind of suggestions that can still make it into Drupal 6 with the help of an aspiring developer. Many of our expert developers are already super-busy working on other improvements so let's try to come up with "simple" improvements that might inspire new developers to get their hands dirty and contribute to core.
So let's focus on smaller improvements rather than legendary tasks such as improved image handling or a full-blown WYSIWYG editor. Yes, we've heard you but it might not be the best strategy to focus on these big tasks now. Let's involve more people, and coach them to become experts that can help take on bigger tasks in future. And at the same time, let's aim to get some additional usability improvements into Drupal 6. (That doesn't imply that the bigger improvements can't make it into Drupal 6.)
And me? I'll promise to review and test your patches!
Here are some of my own suggestions that fall in the "small and simple" category. Hopefully it sets the right tone for this thread, and hopefully it avoids the obvious WYSIWYG comments ...
- Streamlined installation procedure. Remove the Drupal welcome page, and replace it by additional installation steps in the installer. The additional installation steps should query the user for basic site settings (i.e. site name, site slogan), and should provide a dedicated and simpler user interface to create the administrative user account (i.e. user #1).
- Quick start install profile. I'd also like to ship core with an optional install profile optimized at jump starting your installation -- for example, one that sets up a working contact form and creates a dummy about page with a clean and human-readable URL.
- Hierarchical page structuring. Remove the "book page" node type, and turn the book module into a module that is specialized at creating hierarchical content trees. This module will be the de facto standard to structure pages and to create hierarchical navigation schemes in Drupal.
- "Save as draft" feature. Better support for saving posts as draft. Ideal for the Drupal-bloggers amongst us.
- Module update notifications. Let Drupal tell me when a new version of a module became available. Oh, wait, dww is working on that already, but he could use some help to get it implemented in time for Drupal 6!
- Improve path alias administration. Add a search form to the path alias administration screen. On a site with hundreds or thousands of path aliases, it becomes impossible to find the path alias that you want to edit.
- Remember anonymous comment posters. When someone leaves a comment as an anonymous user, his name, e-mail address and URL are not remembered. If we'd store that information in the user's session, he or she wouldn't have to re-enter that information every single time. A subtle but important improvement.
- Backup module. How hard would it be to make a simple backup module, and how many people would be helped by it? It could be really simple but highly effective.
- All small bits that help flatten the Drupal learning curve.
Any small annoyances left? Any subtle but important improvements that can be implemented for Drupal 6? Let's tackle some.
Comments
Remember anonymous comment posters
Does this belong in core? It already exists with the comment info module.
When caching is disabled the session is where the information is stored. When caching is enabled jQuery and cookies do the work. Caching and session storing of this information just don't work together.
If this is worth putting in core I'll write the patch. Is it worth it or is a contib module where it should stay?
--
Matt
http://www.mattfarina.com
Yes, please
I think it's worth including, yes. It should be straightforward to implement -- 10 or 15 lines of code maybe? I'd think we can use sessions for both cached and non-cache pages, but let's discuss that in the issue tracker. Post a patch and share the issue number! Thanks Matt. :)
Here is the issue
Issue filed at http://drupal.org/node/141131. I am looking for feedback for cached situations and not using jQuery.
--
Matt
http://www.mattfarina.com
Auto registration
It's not just comments! The real issue is one-step registration & posting for every node type.
Here is a full spec I've prepared for the auto registration workflow - I would love if someone can implement it.
Amnon
-
Professional: Drupal Search | Drupal Israel | Web Hosting Strategies
Personal: Hitech Dolphin: Regain Simple Joy :)
+1 to auto registration
Have my own thoughts on that, some possibly even practical, but mostly this is the most important improvement for Drupal for any site that actually wants people to get hooked by the content and register when posting or replying. Note that there's a bit of a bounty for implementing this, as patch or contributed module.
benjamin, Agaric Design Collective
benjamin, Agaric
....
Thanks a LOT.
Some small suggestions :
1) Ability to have "read more" "comments" links below or *above* the teaser,
as the site admin wants
2) Pagination ( where multiple pages ) both at top and bottom if wanted by the site admin
3) Below each webpage the following links :
Previous page
javascript:history.go(-1);Go to Topjavascript:scroll(top);and Print this page
javascript:printWindow()4) Providing check box for user at time of login to toggle "remember me" ( or not remember )
5) Flagging any item in a listing by icon for a later read
6) Track my posts as "My new nodes", "Nodes I commented", "My nodes that got comment"
7) History of visited pages in this session
8) Edited stamp when something is edited and keep in chrono order instead of dumping edited one at one end
-------
9) Ability of admin to define min and max words for any input
10 ) Get a 'more' link in online block when more than n users leading to a page of full list
Best regards
...
1. Ability to have "read more" "comments" links below or *above* the teaser
The "read more" link is often hidden between other links (like taxonomy terms) but it's far more important. If we could make it easier to theme the position of the "read more" link, or if we could provide a (per-theme) configuration setting to change the position, that could make for a great core patch. I believe there is (or was) a module that attempts to do some of this. Someone should have a look at that, and try to make a core patch out of it. Ideal task to get started with Drupal development.
6. Track my posts as "My new nodes", "Nodes I commented", "My nodes that got comment"
This would make for a good tracker module improvement too. I'd support these suggestions (or a subset of them).
6. Track my posts as "My new
This would be non-trivial to implement, but it be amazing if it was possible on user/uid/track to get links to the actual comments the user made (otherwise it can be a link to an 800 comment thread they posted on). But that's really a views feature request I guess.
This is one I've wanted for
This is one I've wanted for Drupal's forum for quite a while. A common forum feature is to 'dot' topics that you've posted in. Basically, the topic icon to the left of each thread in the topic list is changed to indicate you've posted there. Typically, this is done by putting a simple dot in the middle of the icon. It's a little thing, but a nice improvement to usability.
Dot
The idea of using a dot is new to me -- but it sounds like a cool little improvement!
This works quite well!
This works quite well! http://drupal.org/project/ed_readmore
Might be good starting point!
Needs work
If you look at that module's code, you can see that it could be simplified. It's rather messy, and it's not the module's fault. So if there are ways we can make this more elegant (and less code), that would be much appreciated.
Some good ideas but...
I strongly disagree: #1 and #3 are handled by the user agent already and just add noise (even worse, *JavaScript* noise) to the page while #2 doesn't need JavaScript at all, just plain HTML (and even then doesn't belong in the core code.)
Again, should this really be done server-side? In core? Although #5 may have a use for folks who need to switch PCs a lot, it's still just a possible use of a hypothetical "web bookmarking" module.
EM
....
Not agreeing with point 3 above
The book page node acts as a good wiki ..... I wish it stays there.
Best regards
Hierarchical page structuring
I strongly believe that a hierarchical page structuring capability is a very important thing for a website, still nowaday with all that social-web tools available everywhere.
So my suggestion is to modify book module to be more customizable, so if one wants to can use it to structuring pages hierarchically.
That won't be a small
That won't be a small task.
category.module is an example of that.
I also use the book pages as
I also use the book pages as books. If extending them to accommodate hierarchial navigation means I can still use them as books then no dramas. I'll be sad if that functionality is scrapped though :P
works at bekandloz | plays at technonaturalist
Conversion
Dries, I know that, and largely agree with, Drupal has a policy of not carrying baggage forward. But this is one that will open a HUGE can of worms unless a full upgrade conversion is available.
There are many people whose entire website is designed around books. Just changing books will destroy their sites.
Perhaps one way to approach this possibility is to "demote" book to a contributed module and put in your new functionality. That would allow people to convert their books as they have time and energy to do so.
Nancy W.
Drupal Cookbook (for New Drupallers)
Adding Hidden Design or How To notes in your database
NancyDru
I agree, keeping the
I agree, keeping the original book.module will leave books intact.
Besides, it lets people keep category.module as well.
Forward compatibility from
Forward compatibility from books should not be an issue.
Look at category_legacy. It converts books and taxonomy into its category structure.
Basically, I think a webpage.module could replace books, category, taxonomy, outline, etc.
It should provide a parent/child hierarchy of webpages that would be automatically reflected in menus
It should also allow for any other node of any type to be "embedded" or "assigned to" any webpage node (kind of like assigning nodes to terms)
i.e. merge books/outline/menu/page/taxonomy/category module functionality into a webpage module
to avoid duplication of these structures in the database
At the end, users can make "webpages" to structure their site and these webpages can "contain" anything, like views, or a bunch of stories, or images, and events, etc.
PS
There are of course WAY better ways to handle the structure problem,
but those solutions (Relationship API; making everything a node) might fall under the "legendary task category"
Also, some people have
Also, some people have suggested using an "entity" type so that nodes, categories, menu items and everything work in the same way and benefit from the same hierachy tools.
I hope it doesn't turn too complex, like the Gallery entities (gallery.menalto.com), because in G2.2 there's that situation where database crashes make random bits dissapear, which causes the need of integrity checks and repair modules.
Book purpose
Disclaimer: I am a newcomer (I don't like the word newbie). Thank you Dries for this much-needed thread.
It seems to me that Book has two purposes:
This appears to me a completely unrelated and should not be put together. I am a proponent of completely discarding Book (with a Book-to-Page/else converter in the process) and spllitting its features into three different modules:
Any input appreciated.
Outlining, collaborative
Outlining, collaborative writing, and wiki syntax are already handled by separate modules. Collaborative writing is supported through the node module, in that content can be broken into separate nodes that can be edited independently. Wiki syntax is handled through filtering, e.g. with the PEAR wiki filter module.
The book module provides outlining, which assists with collaboration by encouraging users to break content into smaller pieces. Note that this is not real-time collaboration, where authors are chatting with each other as they work. Instead it is a slower process using comments and such, more suitable for situations where authors are not all online at the same time.
So the description of book pages is a bit misleading - the primary purpose of the book module is outlining, which inherently makes collaboration more feasible, but does not do anything else to directly support collaboration.
Replacing the book module with a more general outlining module would not mean that sites using book pages would be broken - just as the story module was replaced by the CCK framework in Drupal 5, the book module can be replaced by a well-designed outlining module without compromising the book content type. Did anybody even notice that the story module disappeared in Drupal 5? Some of the issues that need to be addressed by the outlining module design are listed in the Page+Outline post: problems like rendering previous and next links onto arbitrary node pages.
One big advantage of having a de-facto standard for hierarchical outlining is node access control. It is often useful to group sites into sections that have different access rights, regardless of node type, but there is currently no good standard way to do this. Using taxonomy is confusing because a node can appear many places in the taxonomy. In Drupal 4.7, PACS was good, and even integrated with the book module for book pages, but it had to invent its own hierarchy mechanism and synchronize with the book module to make it work. If Drupal has a good outlining framework for all content types, something like PACS can be created that would be much easier to use.
What you say is exactly
What you say is exactly right. The key issue (and ultimately the only issue) regarding outlining is the idea of unified access control to different branches of the site. Taxonomy based AC is not sufficient and makes for very user unfriendly sites.
______________________
Dominik Lukes
http://www.dominiklukes.net
http://www.hermeneuticheretic.net
http://www.czechupdate.com
http://www.techwillow.com
Priorities for Drupal 6
These comments originally appeared elsewhere. Nonetheless I believe that certain widespread trends should be highly prioritized to help spread interest in Drupal.
Of these current trends I see the following at the top of the list:
1. Social Networking has become such a defining force in the growth of the Internet that the industry is starting to refer to this as the Social Web. The existence of many supporting modules in Drupal along with the popularity of relevant groups should make it simple to include in the next release -- "IT" being the recognizable "profile" with content and capabilities that all of us are familiar with.
2. Widgets have successfully taken the leap from my desktop to every website I frequent, allowing me to customize and share my web experiences everywhere I go. The good news is that after the summer of code this concept should be able to explode -- but not simply for the use in Modules. The Widget should work the same way it does everywhere else and allow registered users to import their own content and export it to the web.
3. Mash-ups are the third word of the day and each of the above simplify the process, save one: Content Creation. For the life in me I can't figure out why different Modules have competed for the role when Content Defines the Drupal application. Separate modules help complicate the issue while many of us struggle to create a video or audio site, as well as the rest who simply want to add a business profile. Content Creation deserves Core Consideration.
My thoughts and prayers go out to the contributing developers to consider these basic building blocks of the Social Web.
[Edit: Fixed your link -- Maintenance]
....
Excellent suggestions.
At one point of time in the recent history of web, cms-es were something "new" and showed new or breaking paths ..... but then with advent of orkut, myspace etc there has recently been nothing "new" contributed by the opensource php comm.
I fully agree with points 2 and 3 of Geddon - extremely good feedbacks.
There are OG module but it has problems unanswered for 4.7 as well as 5x versions of Drupal. And probably far more cpu resource-friendiless is needed for mass runs of this module.
Though all these are not small suggestions :-(
Best regards
Using existing modules..
My hopes were to look at the current modules (which are downloaded practically by default) and compare them to the "evolution" of the "social web" in order to determine a potential road map for future Drupal development.
This said, while they may not entirely be "small suggestions," they do currently "largely exist" as a module -- with the exception of No. 2, which should begin to be solved after the SoC '07. Still, I appreciate the feedback!
(cR)
Is it just me
or were there no actual suggestions or ideas in there?
--
Anton
New to Drupal? | Troubleshooting FAQ
Example knowledge base built with Drupal
Simple one
When you click the 'submit' button after entering content on a page, the button should immediately change to 'please wait...' so that the user knows that the button has been clicked and they don't keep clicking it and possibly creating multiple pages/comments with the same content.
solved
Um, that problem has already been solved. There is a module for 5.1 and back to deal with the issue. Future releases will have this multiple posting problem solved. See http://drupal.org/node/107358
--
Matt
http://www.mattfarina.com
But.... maybe not
The pending FAPI 3 patch from eaton and chx takes this out again (with the intention of adding it later, I think), so it is an issue worth tracking.
- Robert Douglass
-----
Lullabot | my Drupal book
Not convinced
I'm not a fan of this feature. If you clicked 'submit' you can see your browser's throbber spin or rotate. That or the browser has a progress bar to indicate that you have to wait. If every button would change to display 'please wait', the experience would become really annoying real quick, IMO.
If you watch less experience
If you watch less experience web users they tend to double click on everything because thats what they do in windows. So i think that the double submission is indeed an issue do we agree there?
As to the solution, if you think that changing the text is annoying (i tend to agree) what about just triggering the submit button to disabled onSubmit? It is much more subtle and serves the same purpose no? Alternatively we could leave the UI the same and handle the duplication on the backend by unsetting a SESSION var i think.
Agree with Dries
I feel that disabling buttons is good in theory, but bad in practice; I've occasionally had my browser (Safari) choke during the HTTP request in apps that implement this feature. It might not be very often, but it is annoying not being able to resubmit the request in that case. Just dealing with duplicate requests is a better way, in my opinion.
How about a toggle that
How about a toggle that locks the submit button to "please wait" (or alternative) and at the same time unlocks a "retry" button.
It'd be best of both worlds and might have configurable settings.
Please wait... ajax only
I do agree with Dries.
All those "Please wait" and "Loading animation" were created to give user feedback when the browser throbber stays still. So, if the page load or reloads, there is no need to add a redundant throbber in the form of a "please wait".
All these animation and "please wait" messages are most welcome for Ajax and the likes.
/*_*/
http://www.xmacinfo.com
How about:- * don't change
How about:-
* don't change the submit button text to anything.
* disable button on submit click
* add a timer upon submit click, if timeout occurs, re-enable the submit button
This should solve the concern about browsers borking and having to re-submit a page sometimes, whilst stopping the happy double clickers.
--
Ixis (UK): Drupal support, Drupal hosting.
User testing
Unfortunately I do not agree with Dries (sorry Dries) and let me first say that I am not a developer but do specialise in usability, working in this field for over 10 years. Having said, that doesn't mean what I am suggesting would be the best way to go. I could be completely off the mark. What we should all do is do some proper usability tests by getting in users of your websites and set-up the appropriate scenarios ie we should not use developers or people like myself but the actual people using the sites.
Collating this information will then give us a clear picture of what to do.
In addition, we can refer to the US based 'Researched Based Usability Guidelines 2006 section 2 - Optimizing the user experience' where it states "Users should not be required to wait for more than a few seconds for a page to load, and while waiting, users should be supplied with appropriate feedback." Furthermore, section 2-10 provides further research stating "Provide users with appropriate feedback while they are waiting.....If processing will take less than 10 seconds, use an hourglass to indicate status. If processing will take up to sixty seconds or longer, use a process indicator that shows progress toward completion. If computer processing will take over one minute, indicate this to the user and provide an auditory signal when the processing is complete."
http://usability.gov/pdfs/guidelines.html
The point that I was trying to make is that when a user clicks that submit button there is usually an element of doubt on whether they clicked that button or not and the 'processing time' can be lengthy depending on the request and the bandwidth. But using some sort of 'instant' feedback to the user will give them some level of comfort. At the moment, there is none and hence we do have duplications of posts.
also,
also,
13:11 - anticipate typical user errors
13:20 - ensure double-clicking will not cause problems
Users are impatient
Dries,
Users are, as a whole, impatient. If a computer hesitates for more than say, three seconds, they begin quadruple-clicking everything in sight in a vain attempt to get it to respond again. I have witnessed this strange behavior numerous times, and I can't fathom why it happens, but it does happen.
It's our job to protect the newb user against themselves. Education of the user cannot happen within a web app. It has to happen over time, and from people in their lives that they trust. Simple Drupal core effects like disabling the submit button once its been clicked will prohibit negative effects within the application itself, and will provide the user with a visual cluebat. After all, they're not looking at the spinning beach ball. Nor are they aware of the status progress bar. All they can see is that huge 'Submit' button that hasn't turned into a 'Your content has been created' message.
[/Senpai]
****
Joel "Senpai" Farris | certified to rock score
While it'd be nice to assume
While it'd be nice to assume all users actually pay attention to the throbber or progress bar, there are a few browser that, I know, don't even have a throbber by default (Safari being one of them). Though a lot of browsers do have them, taking care of the user experience by providing proper feedback is something that should be handled by the website and not the browser.
In the case of the progress bar, impatient users or inexperienced users who double-click anything that's not nailed down may actually end up clicking again before the progress bar has moved enough to get their attention; often there's a delay before the bar begins to move.
The best place, IMO, to put feedback regarding a button action is in the button itself, where we already have the user's full attention. As for exactly what to do with the button... that might take some trail and error to see what sort of thing doesn't slip by the user.
Suggestions for "small"
Suggestions for "small" improvements, hmm, my cup of tea :-) ... Here goes.
1) In the documentation, add something with regard to the location of files, especially css files... I have css's in my theme folder, there are css's in the various core modules folder, in the various contributed modules folder and who knows where. Come to think of it: it would be nice to simply (?) have one single /css folder! It usually takes me about 1 minute to find out where I could change some PHP, and then about 1 hour (oh well, you know) to find out where this or that style is originating from. Drupal's distributed use of css's is highly confusing. At this moment, there are about 17 (!!) css files active on my site, spread here and there.
2) Make a distinction between the "contributor" of a node and the "author". In larger websites, very often the "contributor", i.e. the person who puts stuff online, is not the one who actually writes the text.
3) Include "something", probably in the documentation, explaining which "elements" can be tweaked through a .tpl file. For instance, I'm still not sure whether I can use a taxonomy.tpl.php or not.
4) This may not be a "small" issue, but still, since The Boss started this thread, here goes. At this moment, caching does not yield a whole lot of advantages to the registered user. Take drupal.org: when you enter anonymously, the site appears to be working moderately fast, apparently because many things are cached. But enter as a registered user, and you have to wait 20 or 30 seconds between pages. Something similar happens on my own site. This is a very strong dis-couragement to register!! Why would you? Entering as a registered user only makes sense when you want to write something. For the rest, being a registered user results in a dramatic DE-crease of speed... That really shouldn't be the case. But I agree: this is not "small" to implement :-)
5) Make comments editable by the original writer at all times, also after comments has been given. For instance: I have to get back to work in a minute, but I would like to continue making some more suggestions later on. Chances are I won't be able to do this, becauses most likely new comments will have been published by then, effectively "locking" this text.
6) Make it clear to the administrator which module is taking care of what. For instance: at this moment, I have two times "Categories" in my menu, one coming from (I guess) Drupal's core taxonomy, the other from the contributed module "Category". Give some kind of "map" of the various places where modules are "visible".
7) Give me a good excuse to explain to my boss why I need to continue with this list and not with what he as in store for me :-)
....
100) Make it compulsory for contributed module authors to include a readme.txt of at least 10 K :-) Above all: make them explain in Human Words what the heck their module is doing :-)
Ludo
What you ask in your point 2
What you ask in your point 2 can already be done. The person submitting the node simple has to change the authorship (if they have have node admin privileges). So the change could be in adding this as a separate privilege.
Your point 6 can be fixed through admin/by-module in Drupal 5.
______________________
Dominik Lukes
http://www.dominiklukes.net
http://www.hermeneuticheretic.net
http://www.czechupdate.com
http://www.techwillow.com
With regard to 2 : yes, of
With regard to 2 : yes, of course you can change the "Contributor", but as you say, it would be best to be able to distinguish between contributor and author.
With regard to 6 : well, actually, admin-by-module doesn't influence my point. What I'd like to see, is a kind of "map" or a list of "locations" where a certain module will show its presence. Sometimes (or often if you play around with modules quite a lot) you have something called "list" or "edit" or who knows what showing up, and there is no way of knowing where that particular thing is coming from, at least not without such a map (or an elaborate readme.txt).
Ludo
More specifically about
More specifically about point 6, the admin page item for the Taxonomy module has a confusing name. 'Categories' is clear, but then the module itself should have been called 'category'.
Changing the description text so it includes the word 'taxonomy' would help.
(It actually seems to me that the designers of the taxonomy module swallowed a thesaurus -- there are far too many complex terms for what amounts to a tagging system.)
Taxonomy is more than tagging
The use of the term taxonomy is correct, just not the most familiar. From the wikipedia article:
Tagging implies a flat classification scheme, whereas taxonomies can encompass complex hierarchical relationships. However, I agree that Drupal should be more consistent now that they've changed the reference over to category.
aigeanta
remember, this is a discussion about usability
I agree,
The use of the term "taxonomy" (or "node" for that matter) is not correct from a usability perspective. From the wikipedia article:
People understand tagging/labeling and they understand categorizing, but they need to look up "taxonomy" in Wikipedia!!!
Just because Drupal "categories" work more like a "taxonomy", does not mean that we should call the categories taxonomies, anywhere, ever! (not even in the URL bar)
Simply put, when a person whants to emply the tool "Drupal" to make a website, working with "content" and "categories" is easier for them than googling for "taxonomy", "vocabulary", "term", "node", etc.
The terminology used has a lot to do with the ease by which things get done
lrstudio: From my
lrstudio: From my perspective, being someone who's studied and studies cognitive science, behavioral sciences, linguistics and usability, and works with it, I don't think that's an important issue at all. Both terms are appropriate, and since many versions, the Drupal admin pages say "categories" instead of "taxonomy". The internal name of the module is still taxonomy and it is an appropriately selected term.
What can be improved is the handbook or the help files, preferably both. They should be better at explaining each of these concepts. It's like popularizing science, it's usually a bad idea, what you gain in easing the spreading of the ideas you lose in the simplification, even the trivializing, of them. I don't want Drupal to be trivial, but powerful, and taking things down to a "simpler" level is not the way to go.
I've written an introduction to Drupal and its basic concepts (see link below), it's something I've been planning to extend into a set of tutorials. It's a kind of guide covering things that are not covered in the handbooks. People who are new to Drupal are often scared off by the concepts behind it, things like nodes and vocabularies, powerful concepts all but not properly explained in the handbooks. This is a gap in understanding, a gap I've attempted to bridge and judging from the feedback I have received many people who are new to Drupal find the tutorial useful.
http://www.jakob-persson.com/myblog/drupal_for_solid_lifeforms
--
Jakob Persson
Drupal developer, web designer and usability consultant
http://www.jakob-persson.com
--
Jakob Persson - blog
Leancept – Digital effect and innovation agency
People who are new to Drupal
I am thinking that you have hit the nail on the head with respect to what I am trying to get at
BUT
Simply improving documentation does NOTHING to improve usability!
It merely explains the less than "usable" state to the users ... so they can get their work done in a utilitarian manner
You may disagree, but to improve usability, the gap in understanding NEEDS to be eliminated altogether ... not bridged
I think you're confusing
I think you're confusing apples with pears, and I think your understanding of "usability" is not entirely correct.
Usability is not about simplification or making complex tools simple, look at Microsoft Windows as a server OS to see where that takes you when it comes to scalability and security. Windows as a server OS is not usable, Linux is, even though handling an application like vi takes time and reading man pages to grasp even the basic commands. A steep threshold doesn't mean that vim offers poor usability, the application is highly usable for someone who knows it well.
Would you argue that an accounting application is not usable because it requires an understanding of accounting? Should we make accounting simple or trivial by basing the application on a less powerful way of organizing a business' finances just to make it "easy to use"?
The idea that a powerful tool can be learnt intuitively or without reading any kind of manual is seductive, and attractive, but not always realistic. An application can support user learning and reveal powerful features as the user gains understanding. This is used effectively in complex applications like 3D modellering and rendering software, although crudely in that they offer beginner and expert modes. Doing it effectively requires a lot of research and planning, and an entirely new interface for managing Drupal, allowing the communicated metaphors of function to work consistently regardless of their accuracy to their actual workings.
An application can be considered an expression of how its creator/programmer envisioned it to work, as such as the interface of an application is a message in itself. The message embeds ideas and metaphors, and these may correlate to how the application works, or they may be based on a less accurate model that requires less effort on the user's part to grasp. A sliding level of fidelity in regards to how the application seems and how it works requires that the concepts work regardless of how accurate the user's understanding. In effect, a "simple" understanding must not impede the user from applying the metaphors and concepts, and doing so together, in a meaningful, powerful and useful way.
I think this can be done, it would be interesting and challenging to achieve but it is not within the scope of this forum topic.
--
Jakob Persson
Drupal developer, web designer and usability consultant
http://www.jakob-persson.com
--
Jakob Persson - blog
Leancept – Digital effect and innovation agency
sigh
The apples to oranges argument applies to your example
As someone who has successfully used both in Enterprise areas your statement is not applicable nor accurate. Just because someone can 'use' Windows (as in XP, etc) does not mean they can actually use, size, understand or configure Windows Server in various roles and deployments. We have a joke at work, 'everyone thinks they are a windows expert just because they can click start.'
The reality is, to use Windows or Linux in an Enterprise takes skill, knowledge and understanding of your goals.
I would now argue that your understanding of the usability of Windows is limited either the lack of your going through the steep learning curve to use the product properly. Much like my ability to use vim is limited by my disinterest in using it for more then the vary basic tasks.
Now see, this isn't what you were arguing was it? If you are going to use an example you need to pick an example that illustrates your point a little more clearly and is not based on bias or preference.
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
Steven, you echo my
Steven, you echo my opinion:
Exactly! This is the point I am trying to make! Just because something is simple to do doesn't mean you possess the cognitive tools to do it, it takes learning and understanding. Perhaps I didn't express it as well as I could have. My reason for using Windows Server was the kind of thinking you illustrate above, just because it's "point and click", many people draw the conclusion "it's easy". Same goes for accounting applications, without an understanding of corporate finance, it's useless, regardless of how neat it looks or how good you are at using Windows or Mac. Point is, it doesn't matter how "user friendly" your user interface is, you still need to know what you're doing - which is why I think making Drupal "simpler" and turning to a terminology that is "easier" to grasp is not the way to go.
More accessible? Yes!
Clearer? Yes!
More intuitive? Yes!
Simpler? No!
Also, speaking of terms, is there a better word for "node"? Considering there's a move towards further abstraction, users and comments becoming nodes in Drupal, finding a less abstract term gets even harder. It is, after all, the abstraction that makes Drupal shine!
There's also the aspect of support and how users think about support. I've been supporting open source software for a long time and I've noticed that some users don't get far simply because they have the wrong attitude. In order to get somewhere with Drupal you need to be inquisitive, you need to have an appetite for learning and actually sitting down and understanding how it works, otherwise you will be dependent on others for your development.
The users who don't get far, or give up quickly, are those who do not think it's worth doing some work and learning on their own, expecting to have everything served to them on a silver plate. Catering to the needs, whims and wishes of this latter group of users is not in the interest of the project - but turning them into the former group may be a worthwhile enterprise. By bridging the existing gaps in the handbooks in regards to Drupal's conceptual framework, more people would considering it worthwhile to learn and probably not be so quick to throw in the towel.
--
Jakob Persson
Drupal developer, web designer and usability consultant
http://www.jakob-persson.com
--
Jakob Persson - blog
Leancept – Digital effect and innovation agency
I advocate verbacious simplification
In the interests of promoting a fuller recognition of serviceability unto incidental patrons , I provide this conceptualization of distilling variegated terminology into transparent commentary. Can we please dispense with words that have pervasive meaning to twelve propellorheads in a dank cellar somewhere, and use a few surrogates that the entire world grasps within 500 milliseconds?
I'd offer to build you a six-orieled, quadruplicated pneumatic-belt circumferential support transporter with an aluminum alloy exterior skeleton, but you probably already have a car, don't you?
[/Senpai]
****
Joel "Senpai" Farris | certified to rock score
lol
i agree why use vague or complicated words to describe thing? I think using these types of words just shuts out or intimidates to many people and that is not the point of opensource. i believe if an apple is an apple and thats what everyone knows it by why would you try to change it besides to give yourself a personal feeling that your more advanced. Everyone knows that drupal has a learning curve a part of that is the language/ descriptions used. and as far as to what is another word for a node someone else asked above,,, well... ask yourself what is a node ? and you should have your answer ;-)
(not even in the URL
Well, in the URL bar, yes (if not for the rest too - I don't have definitive position there), because, who look at the URL? The technically-minded. And it would help increasing the use of the Right Word. Look at what happends with websites giving away free space? Publicity for their domain name. Same could go for the taxonomy word.
Re: Point 100...
... a big +1 from me!
Hear, Hear
Agreed in principle, though apart from education attempts there is not much that is practical to do.
Also some of the entries in the module listings are uninformative, along the lines of:-
"Xaybzc
Impliments the Xaybzc interface system on Drupal."
Leaving you wondering what the ! is "Xaybzc". Is it something invaluable to my website or will it be a complete and utter waste of my time trawling the net to find that "Xaybzc" is an obscure mathematical syntax evaluator for calculating impact of water preasure.
John Bryan
www.ALT2.com
Application Integration Specialists
Tel: UK 08700 3456-31
...
If a contrib modules description is unclear, please file an issue with that projects issue queue.
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
Caching and performance
3. ... caching and performance ...
We almost always accept patches that improve performance. I particularly enjoy reviewing patches that implement performance improvements. They jump straight to the top of my list. :)
Category module replaces the
Category module replaces the taxonomy link.
I can't recall if this is done automatically but that'd be the end result.
For point 1) you should
For point 1) you should never change any other CSS files than your THEMES style.css!
CSS is made to override previous definitions. Just find the class/id you want to change and add it to your theme stylesheet.
You never need to know about the 17+ other style sheets being used by your modules.
Also in Drupal 5 active the caching of CSS in to a single CSS file to make your site load quicker.
--
Ixis (UK): Drupal support, Drupal hosting.
I would like to see some way
I would like to see some way to add theme- and module-independent css. It can be messy, I know, but it is not unmotivated.
For instance, all my pages (content!) have a particular structure, such as, let's say, a color-system for a diagram. No matter what theme I am using, the colours will be always the same.
Would be good to have a style.css valid for every page in a single site?
Not a very big deal, though.
Regards,
José San Martin
José San Martin
http://www.chuva-inc.com/
Performance for logged-in users
Regarding #4, yes, registered users don't get much benefit from caching. It's not the page generation time that kills performance but fully loading Drupal itself. I'm working on a patch to improve that: http://drupal.org/node/140218 Feedback and testing is needed! Even if you can't code, we'll need people who can review and test it. If we can get it implemented for Drupal 6 the performance benefits should be huge.
--
Larry Garfield
http://www.garfieldtech.com/blog
http://www.palantir.net
--
Larry Garfield
http://www.garfieldtech.com/
Thinking Functionally in PHP: https://leanpub.com/thinking-functionally-in-php
Agree with #2...kind-of
2) Make a distinction between the "contributor" of a node and the "author". In larger websites, very often the "contributor", i.e. the person who puts stuff online, is not the one who actually writes the text.
I agree that there should be a way to add multiple authors more and possibly to categorize them.
More to allow better restrictions on who can edit what, or allow multiple users with the "edit own page content" restriction to edit the content.
100
Ludo, I heartily agree with #100, but doubt we'll ever see anything like that. But I have definitely seen modules that just don't tell you what they do or how.
Let's add:
101) Make it mandatory to include an Uninstall function in all modules, even if it does nothing but log a message. However, I haven't seen a module yet that shouldn't at least delete its system variables and clear the cache on uninstall.
Nancy W.
Drupal Cookbook (for New Drupallers)
Adding Hidden Design or How To notes in your database
NancyDru
#6 code in Pro Drupal Development
John and Matt wrote some code that provides the basis for #6 in their Pro Drupal Development book. Maybe some proud owner of the book can whip up a patch from that? (See page 200 for the pathfinder module).
- Robert Douglass
-----
Lullabot | my Drupal book
Please look at the find_path module
See http://drupal.org/project/find_path
Works quite well for me.
Let's integrate it in core
As I said elsewhere in this thread -- most of that module, if not all of that module, should be part of core. People should not have to download and install such a module. Let's take that module, extract the good parts, clean it up a little, and add it to core.
I'm tempted to say: this module should never been created in first place, and should have been submitted as a patch for path.module to begin with ...
Path search
Here's a patch for it: http://drupal.org/node/141526 (URL aliases search form) :-D
Excellent
I just reviewed the patch. Let's work on this some more and fix this once and for all. Thanks Gurpartap. :)
Hierarchical page structuring and mass editing
I cannot agree more with point 3. If Drupal could improve its handling of outlines, its usability would go through the roof. There is already the Category module and Outline module but neither will be sufficiently safe to use without core support. It wouldn't take much:
- Choose which content types can be outlined.
- Add per-outline rights - rather than any user with outlining rights being able to add pages to any outline
Another huge improvement to Drupal usability would to improve mass actions (such as the Mass Taxonomy Edit module or User Plus). There are so many things in Drupal that are almost useless because of the amount of work it takes to maintain them. The administration of aliases is one of them. I actually use phpMyAdmin when I want to make any changes there. Here are a few simple things in that area that would help:
- Choose how many nodes get listed at once on admin/content/node
- Select nodes that do not belong to a category in admin/content/node
- Select nodes that match a search term
- Select nodes based on date of creation
- Assign one taxonomy term to multiple nodes
- Change authorship of multiple nodes at once
- Change input format on multiple nodes at once
- Change content type of multiple nodes at once
- Resave multiple nodes automatically in one go (useful for some modules)
Other miscellaneous usability improvements:
- Display weights on the list of menu items so that it is obvious what a new menu item should be assigned (like in Blocks or Outline)
- Offer weight and location as an option when creating or configuring a block (it takes two steps to get a block up at the moment)
- Offer User group assignment when creating a new user (similar to User+)
- Ajaxify the ordering of items in lists
I wish I could contribute development time but I lack the coding skills.
______________________
Dominik Lukes
http://www.dominiklukes.net
http://www.hermeneuticheretic.net
http://www.czechupdate.com
http://www.techwillow.com
Just go for it?
I cannot agree more with point 3. If Drupal could improve its handling of outlines, its usability would go through the roof.
Well, Dominik, just go for it. ;-)
For Informational Sites Only ?
There are are some very good points in your post, but I'm not sure if I understand all of them. For instance, I didn't understnad your comment that neither the Category module nor Outline modules would be sufficiently safe to use without core support. Without core support ?
Also, I didn't understand, "assign one taxonomy term to multiple nodes" ? Is that just a matter of integrating the Taxonomy module into the core ? The Taxonomy module is so useful that I can't imagine someone not installing it on their site.
I visited your links and we both seem to have the informational, "text" sites, as opposed to community, multimedia or commerical sites. Each type of site probably has its own set of needs and operating considerations. For informational sites, I think that the most important point is improving page structuring, which would vastly expand Drupal's usefulness for presenting information in a book-like form.
In Drupal 5, the combination of books, categories and weblinks has worked very well for me. The pages of a book pop out of the hierarchy as items in a category listing, providing something like a associative, network view of the content as well as the hierarchical view of the the book structuring. The weblinks get included in the category listing, which relieves me of the effort to creating links within the pages.
A nice feature of weblinks is that I can include them into a book hierarchy "outline". It also works with blog entries and static pages. One inconvenience is that the user has to create the content first and then assign it to an "book outline" from the list content page.
So I'm not sure, but maybe your comment about outlines was to extract the outline functions from the book and give it the status of a new node type, without the necessity of a main book page ( ? ).
I think the smooth blending of hierarchical with associative views within a consistent presentation schema is a central requirement for text sites. I think text sites also tend to wind up with several hundred nodes. I think anything to make the maintenance functions more powerful and managable is a good thing.
One difficulty I've had is with ordering items in a list for a category. To work around the lack of control per-page, I fiddle with the creation date until the item shows up in approximately the right order across several category pages. In fact, it seems to work out pretty well, as if the importance of a given item is largely independent of its importance within a particular category. Interesting, conceptually speaking ?
I would also like to see a friendlier UI for weighting in general, preferably some sort of "move up/move down" capability and let Drupal figure out what weight numbers should be.
I think in the long run it would make sense to steer toward document model standards such as DocBook, using more powerful XML document technology. There are many considerations involved in wholesale transition to XML documents, not least of which is performanace. So I'm really talking about Drupal version 7 or later.
In the meantime, maybe some sort of template manager/generator would rev up the RPMs for page structuring. It seems like their should be some simple way to integrate Smarty templates, without having to create separate theme. Is there ?
Also, I think that the eCommerce module is reaching a critical threshhold of featues and usability. As some point, maybe version 7, it will probably need enhanced 'commerce-aware' functions inside the core, particularly transaction integrity, security, the usual list of suspects.
My thoughts on the subject ... and many thanks again to all the Drupal developers for such a great CMS.
- Bill
http://www.billbreitmayer.com/home
What I meant by my comment
What I meant by my comment about Category and Outline not being safe to use because of lack of core support is more about the level of support when upgrading a site and how other modules interact with them (not anything negative about their quality as a stand-alone modules). Particularly Category has to replace some core files which is always a potential problem. I think outlining and a simple way of creating a basic hierarchical site with access rights for specific trees should be a great addition to the Drupal toolkit and would make it much more userfriendly out of the box.
______________________
Dominik Lukes
http://www.dominiklukes.net
http://www.hermeneuticheretic.net
http://www.czechupdate.com
http://www.techwillow.com
Menu module?
For my outlining needs so far, honestly, all of the "brouchureware" sites I've done I've simply added a menu item to the Primary Links menu for the node. There's a fieldset to do so right on the node add/edit page (if you have the appropriate permissions). Primary Links then becomes your page tree. If you want a sitemap view of it, then you can use the menutree module I wrote.
I'm definitely in favor of a non-menu outline module for hierarchies, but for the main site hierarchy don't short-change the existing menu module. It's quite flexible in that regard.
--
Larry Garfield
http://www.garfieldtech.com/blog
http://www.palantir.net
--
Larry Garfield
http://www.garfieldtech.com/
Thinking Functionally in PHP: https://leanpub.com/thinking-functionally-in-php
for 3
http://drupal.org/node/138721
http://drupal.org/node/138718
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
I'm not sure I understand
I'm not sure I understand this post but I guess it means: "here are some related issues that need to be solved as well".
...
more related in that some people are working on something there. It was in the way of additional information for those interested.
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
Mass editing....
I had an idea for this after I saw that actions is likely to be in core in Drupal 6. I've thought of this previously, but it required some custom code and themeing to get close.
How about a module that exposes actions within views the same way a field is exposed? Configure a table view, and then expose an action such as promote, publish, delete, or send email, change workflow, etc, etc as a field to be placed within that view?
It may require alot of configuration options, such as multiple selects for some things, or checkboxes and a submit handler for others, but I think the module could be coded in such a way that it would be possible to build a configurable mass editor without writing any code just using views and actions.
I really think this is a good approach because roughly half the work or more even, of coding the editor would be done, since it would leverage all the filtering, arguements, fields and configuration options of views.
Any thoughts? I'd love to work on it, but I'd need a full time mentor ;)
-Mike
Drop me a line.
This is, in fact, implementable using a custom 'view style' -- you could add checkboxes to each field and a submit button at the bottom/top of the list, and otherwise copy the normal 'table' style display code. The results would be a very customizable "build your own node admin screen" system.
I've got some ideas on how this could be done, and experience with both views and actions, but haven't had time to work on it myself. If you're interested, drop me a line.
--
Lullabot! | Eaton's blog | VotingAPI discussion
--
Eaton — Partner at Autogram
I am interested
I've bumped into a situation where this kind of solution could be suitable. I need to create a view where to settle the privacy status of certain nodes. It would be great to have nodes listed with checkboxes and then submit modifications. I would really like to know which is the correct approach in this case. Any ideas? Thank you.
Offer weight and location as
This issue should indeed be adressed. Making custom blocks requires just too much clicks...
tracker, checkboxes, and view nodetype controls
As a non-coder, I don't know how easy these suggestions are to implement:
-----
Charlie Lowe | cyberdash
Tips for posting to the Drupal forums
Tracker page filterable by
You can do that with the views module very easily. You could also submit a feature request to infrastructure if you want it on drupal.org itself.
views module not in core
Certainly, that can be done with the views module. I would suspect it won't happen on drupal.org any time soon given the performance overhead of the views module. But it is a usability feature that would benefit many large sites with multiple node types.
-----
Charlie Lowe | cyberdash
Tips for posting to the Drupal forums
I have to agree. It's all
I have to agree. It's all to easy to say "views module can do that very easily". We're trying to improve the out-of-the-box experience here ... in other words, don't hesitate to submit patches for the tracker module.
Check all
Is already in Drupal 5: look at the column header for the checkboxes -- checking that checkbox selects all. And highlights them, even.
--
The future is Bryght.
ahhh . . .location of checkbox
I never noticed the checkbox up there. I wonder if the normal user expectation is to find that at the bottom. That's where I would have anticipated finding it, but maybe that's because I tend to use that sort of option most in phpmyadmin, and that's where it is located. Typically, don't those checkboxes have something like "check all" beside them?
-----
Charlie Lowe | cyberdash
Tips for posting to the Drupal forums
gmail and yahoo
If you look at the gmail and yahoo mail interfaces they have one at the top.
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
good point
Good point. Perhaps the way to address this in terms of usability is to make that checkbox appear above with a "select all" note beside it. Maybe put it right above the table headings.
-----
Charlie Lowe | cyberdash
Tips for posting to the Drupal forums
from memory...
I believe that was discussed and the end answer was... 'where?' and 'translating it could be very long'
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
Hierarchical Structure
While looking at making structure a bit better, it would be useful if the book.module replacement could handle ordering in other ways than just by weight. Specifically, if would be good if users could specify some kind of linear ordering. I explained this much better over here: http://drupal.org/node/37923. We did develop something like this locally, based off of book.module, but it was for 4.6, and it was very fragile and clunky, and we weren't actively using it yet, so we abandoned it. But if the code we wrote would be of help, I can probably excavate it from somewhere.
About point 6: Is it
About point 6:
Is it possible to move the Pathauto module (or add something similar) to the core ?
With the possibility to use custom separators (i.e. for a title like foo bar, one would have the option to choose one or more characters to replace the white spaces: - => foo-bar, _ => foo_bar, ~ => foo~bar, etc.). Another cool option would be the possiblity to add suffixes and/or prefiexes to paths (e.g.: use article_ as a prefix and .html as a suffix, which would normaly result in article_123.html).
And another thing... is it impossible to remove the jQuery or add the option to remove/replace it ? With jQuery around, users are forced to use it and maybe some of them don't like jQuery, or don't have time to learn it, or just want to use other libraries or none. So what do we do ? Leave jQuery there and add another one on top (i.e. another 100 K)? I'm sure it's possible to declare an interface and implement it with jQuery by default and let developers reimplement the methods using their favorite JavaScript library.
couple thoughts
Your first part about suffixes and prefixes can be done with pathauto. Should it be moved to core? I think that an issue needs to be opened, a case needs to be made, someone write a patch, and see where it goes. This is a scratch your own itch environment. Someone want to scratch that itch?
jQuery won't be optional in 6. There is a lot of javascript in core such as expanding text boxes, auto complete fields, and more that are all directly tied to jQuery. Can you add something else on top? Sure can. But, if you can do it in prototype you can do it in jQuery.
There was good thought put into jQuery compared to the rest. To have a system of swappable javascript frameworks means your core work would have to be independant. It, also, removes commonality among module development. Can you imagine setting up a site with a bunch of contributed modules and they use 3 different javascript frameworks? That would be a pain. Commonality makes it a lot easier for the mass majority of users and developers.
--
Matt
http://www.mattfarina.com
Path auto in core
About point 6: Is it possible to move the Pathauto module (or add something similar) to the core?
I'd have to have another look at the pathauto module -- it's been a while since I looked at the code. Either way, there are path alias improvements that we can implement that everyone benefits from -- including pathauto module users. Not everyone will want to use the pathauto module, so it's not a good substitute for all path alias challenges. (I, for one, prefer to manually choose the path aliases on my blog entries.)
The #new links in
The #new links in forum.module, tracker.module (and views.module in the comments .inc) don't work when comments span multiple pages. This makes it very, very difficult to follow long discussions on forums.
There's a three year issue and numerous patches here: http://drupal.org/node/6162 that try to fix this, but none RTBC. I'd be very, very happy if it got fixed for Drupal 6, and have one solution working fine on my live site.
Also
+1 Not tried them yet but: http://drupal.org/project/find_path looks like a start
Yes, please!
About that module you referenced at the bottom of your comment -- I haven't looked at it yet so I can't comment on the quality of the code, but this should be integrated in core's path.module. I'd be happy to commit such a patch. Looks like an ideal task for an aspiring core developer. :)
Patch for Drupal 6
Here's a patch for it: http://drupal.org/node/141526 (URL aliases search form)
Notification for several new comments
Does it fix the problem with being notified of all the new comments (the #new thing may only show you one new comment—although this is OK in linear mode, this is definitely in threaded mode).
Along with path aliases - a
Along with path aliases - a similar system for taxonomy terms - or alpha paging like views_alpha_pager would be a big help for free-tagging vocabularies.
Also multiple select check boxes on those pages (both before and after some kind of filtering) for bulk deletion.
I'll try to stop posting on this thread for the rest of the day now, sorry.
Suggestion for admin side
Hello
It would be nice if the admin menu could have 2 layouts: simple and complex. Simple for everyday tasks, complex for site building.
Jordi R Cardona
admin menu
I'd like to expand on this. There should be a developer menu (ie current version) and an administrator (or perhaps "editor") menu. The administrator menu would have drastically fewer options available, ie exclude anything that requires a modicum of thought or knowledge of Drupal (themes and modules for example). Content and comment administration would be good examples of items on the adminstrator menu.
Ideally someone would create an admin theme that would present the administrator's menu as friendly icons, ala Joomla (only better of course ;-) ).
At the same time, the default install would have 3 user roles: anonymous, developer (= current "authenticated"), and a third in-between one, called administrator or editor.
This makes sense to me since I suspect most Drupal sites are now developed on behalf of a client, who needs simple access to the more basic administration activities.
Small suggestion
Possibility to choose on which link or type of links you put a rel="nofollow" tag. Not only links in comments but also internal links.
If it's already possible and I don't know how please tell me before you remove this comment. :)
BTW I will love the implementation of true internationalization.
Menu Permissions
I would like to see more flexibility in the menu permissions..
For example, in setting up a site that is primarily maintained by others, you'd want to give them access to the menu system so that it shows up in the node create pages for them to allocate the node to a menu. But when you do this, they automatically have access to administer => site building => menus as well, which reveals to them the entire menu structure.
+1 for menu permissions
Just thought I'd add my +1 for menu permission limits. For a project I'm working on for a non-profit, the volunteers will be entering much of the content(diff CCK content types) and I would like them to be able to add the pages to the menu structure. But I also want to make sure they don't put it in the totally wrong place.
Another possibility(or in my case a diff solution to the same problem) would be a dynamic menu entry. What I mean is a pointer to a CCK node type, and all nodes of that type would be listed. In my case we would be adding/dropping projects every once in a while. It would be great if as we go along the menu structure would also reflect these updates as we add new project nodes.
Of course, I'd be happy to hear that the menu rewrite already done for Ver 6 already includes both ideas :-)
-------------------
http://www.PrivacyDigest.com/ News from the Privacy Front
http://www.SunflowerChildren.org/ Helping children around the world
+2 for menu permissions
I use drupal as a cms for corporate clients to whom I provide limited access.
I would like them to be able to provide them with the ability to create pages and allocate them to a menu stream, but as above, this also gives them access to the menu settings page, which is more control than they would need to have and could possibly have bad repercussions should they mess around with these settings.
Greater flexibility in Menu permissions would be a great step forward for the Drupal CMS, and I imagine rather straight forward to implement.
Thanks!
Interesting idea
I think this is part of the larger "make it easier to structure your site" discussion. It's far too difficult to setup a Drupal website with some hierarchical pages and a simple permission scheme to protect some of these pages. It's possible to do all that with the help of contributed modules, but it takes too many steps, research and fighting with contributed modules. So, yes, you nailed it. We have to make this a lot easier. Frankly, it's at the basis of what they call "content management" ... go figure.
In fact, it's exactly why I suggested to massage the book module into a module that let you build hierarchical navigation trees. A permission scheme could be a straightforward but popular extension. Either way, I think that step #1 would be to work on the proposed book module improvements as that is going to (re-)define how you organize pages in menus. Then, in step #2, we can worry about permission schemes.
.......
Book module as it is now is GOOD for us in many ways ... provides a nice wiki base, alphabetical sorting etc etc
W.r.t "hierarchical pages" my humble opinion is web is more and more of
hyperlinked one page documents ............ really non-geeky endusers and surfers at large will click more on hyperlinked words in the document body !
Thus ability to turn on or off by the site admin auto hyperlinking of terms appearing elsewhere in the site can be great !
Best regards
More for comment.module and
More for comment.module and forum.module:
1. an option for "truly flat comments" in comment settings - hierarchy is still stored in the database, even if you're displaying comments flat/expanded - this can affect things like deletion, use of comment mover etc. etc. http://drupal.org/project/flatcomments is a start on that.
2. linked to the above, making the "reply" view of a comment allow for a review of the entire thread instead of just the individual comment itself - to save trusting the back button and/or multiple tabs for following one discussion. I couldn't find a feature request for this, so just posted one here: http://drupal.org/node/141059
3. Different classes for subforums in the default forum index - to ease things like different styling and/or collapsibility. At the moment 30px indent is the only difference I could find in forum.module
4. comment submit redirect back to the comment, rather than the node
4a. As Dries pointed out in the issue, this won't work for moderated comments. A follow-on solution to that (and lots of other issues with comment.module) would be comment permalinks: http://drupal.org/node/131428 which might also fix my pet issue http://drupal.org/node/6162
Enhancements to the Menu UI.
I would like to see some improvements to how the menu editing works. It would be nice if you could set the weight on menus on the admin/build/menu page instead of having to go and edit each individual menu. Also on that page, for big sites I've had lots of menus, it would be nice if you could collapse certain menus on that page. Maybe possibly some jQuery goodess to allow inline editing right on that page (not sure how it would affect page load time, etc), but just a thought.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Proxous, Inc.
http://www.proxous.com
check box for menu
1. use check box for expanded, disable/enable and also weight on menu settings i hope.
2. add target link in path for "add menu item"
3. in menu settings : Restrict parent items to: -> can have multiple value, not only one value
4. user search on "users" settings, not in "search users"
5. content search on "content" settings, not in "search content"
6. multiple delete in url alias and also search as well
7 logs search/filter by user name, type, date
8. user + ip in logs. (recent logs entries, recent hits, top-acces dinied, top page not found) and also add logs "web user logs" = visitor + ip.little diffren from top visitor, top visitor can't have users+ip because the Total Hits column
Just a couple simple ones
Some things, I think, could easily be improved. I think these two things fall into the "small annoyances" and "learning curve" categories.
Consider the "Enable or disable the submitted by Username on date text when displaying posts of the following type". To a new user it's not necessarily obvious this is a theming issue (especially since new users often avoid theming at first), instead it seems than a content-type concern. I know I Googled that countless times before I remember where y'all kept that checkbox hidden. If the option can't be moved along side the publish and sticky settings, maybe a text reminder pointing the right way would be helpful.
A second little one ... the assigning roles page. If you have a handful of roles (and of course countless permissions) it becomes hard to keep track of: OK ... I'm assigning 'edit own story' ... to, um, whom? Any time I find myself with post-it notes under my screen to remind me what column I'm in, I know it's not clear enough. Sectional restatements of the roles, or even if the mouse-over text could indicate columnar in addition to the row help, would be huge. Going through the Roles menu instead would almost be awesome, except I can't tell which permission are inherited from Authenticated user do I don't make redundant permissions. Maybe a second column (perhaps greyed out, uneditable, or otherwise reduced in significance) could be presented also so one could avoid redundant permissions with the always-inherited case, or perhaps something as unobtrusive as tinted rows or something to make this a viable alternative to the "big grid."
Those are the two that leap to mind. I'd also like read-access granularity to parallel write-access granularity in the node settings, but I don't think that's quite so small.
A second little one ... the
I never knew this until another poster told me, but if you click on the role at the top of the column it will select the actual column of the role and hide ther others, then you can assign roles without counting columns or whatever.
AC Interface?
Perhaps something is odd with my sites' setups, but the roles across the top on the Access Control page aren't clickable nor are the columns highlightable. I'll play around a but more, but if it's this well hidden it needs interface improvement -- if not true feature addition.
Oh, you're right. That seems
Oh, you're right. That seems to have disappeared since Drupal 4.7 then!
submitted by Username on date text
'Consider the "Enable or disable the submitted by Username on date text when displaying posts of the following type". To a new user it's not necessarily obvious this is a theming issue (especially since new users often avoid theming at first), instead it seems than a content-type concern.'
+1
To me also it seems like a content-type setting.
Role weights would be
Role weights would be valuable to aid this (and in other locations too) instead of just alphabetized roles. There is a role_weights module but I don't think its functionality is used much by other modules.
Node control
I think a lot of people want to have more control about how a node is displayed. They want to control the location of the 'read more' link, the want to hide/show the username, the date, the printer-friendly links or even the taxonomy terms.
The current answer is: modify the theme. But this is problematic for (at least) two reasons: (1) I don't want to modify the theme to change a single node/post and (2) I might not know how to theme a Drupal site.
So, yes, sometimes I wish I could control these things on a per-node basis. I want to have per-node defaults, but every now and then, I just want to overwrite these defaults from my node edit page.
Would definitely be a killer-improvement, IMO.
Node display granularity
What I'd meant with regards to node display granularity is beyond theming I think:
Granularity for writing:
- create [type] content
- edit own [type] content
- edit [type] content
Granularity for reading:
- access [all types] content
Again, I think this is beyond the simple improvements being sought in this thread, which is why I abbreviated it essentially out.
what about a collapsible permissions list?
Maybe it is possible and I'm just missing it, but kind of like how the different classes of modules (core, core optional, etc.) are collapsible (via jquery library?) could the permissions page include this too? The list might look a little less intimidating to someone like me! ;)
A few suggestions
9) Ability of admin to define min and max words for any inputThis is a big one for me too. Mainly so I can stop people from making comments like 'yeah' or 'cool', on sites where users get points for each post the y make.
I'd also like to see a way to automatically make any link that's to another site (IE, not the same as the home URL for a given site) open in a new window.
And how about a core edition that allows unregistered users to post content on a site that requires registration but keeps it in the mod queue until the user has completed their registration, then auto releases it. With the register page coming up automatically when they hit 'Submit'. <-- Guess that doesn't sound too small, but it would be nice.
Thanks,
David
http://www.floridapets.org
locale translation interface revamp
I was just posting a story on the "translations" and "internationalization" groups pages with a GUI critic on the current locale translation editing interface, so we can quickly collect some ideas to improve it. There is a lot to improve there, the current translation interface (as far as I see) is very close to being completely useless. Join in the discussion about redoing the locale module translation web interface!
Yes, please!
Funny thing is, my dad recently started exploring Drupal and for a while, he was confused about the locale string search form. And I have to agree, searching for untranslated strings is not as intuitive as it could be. Any improvements to make that form more intuitive would be welcome, and could go straight into core.
How about Drupal Packages
Here are my suggestions - from a nube point of few
1) Documentation that has more images and screenshots. So that when it talks about creating
a creating a "view by using node order and then filtering by taxonomy." What does this mean to the
layman? How about showing a sceenshot of ok, here's a Block with Recent Articles. Now to create this block
with the recent articles, click Views (show screenshot) then click popular content view (screenshot,) etc.
Drupal is one of the few open source projects that has extensive, well organized documentation. It's just
that it's written for people who already know the system and not for new people coming in.
2) How about a couple of different packages like the DrupalEd package. Maybe a package for people who
want to use Drupal for Blogging and one for Social Networking - are two to start. These packages would have
the necessary mods, themes and two or three standard layouts in each category that makes it
easier to use.
3) Better Article Admin. This goes back to my 1st point about managing and creating articles. All of
this should be done from ONE admin area. We shouldn't have to go to views to set the display of the article, then
go to the node/content tab to do the bulk admin stuff, then go to panels or something else to set whether the
article displays in multi column, then go to various "node mods" to set additional features, or have to go to the
services mod to add our digg tags, or use the tagalicious module to incorporate tags. As you can tell it's out of
control. There needs to be one central or two at the most where you go and set up and manage all aspects
your sites articles. CMS's are supposed to streamline this process not make them more complex. Look at how
all the other CMSs and Blogging tools handle article admin. Drupal 5.0 is a really good start, but it could go further.
Packages are great
I'm new too, and from my perspective, the install profiles are the best thing Drupal has going for it to attact new users. I would love to see a Drupal for Corporations or something like that in addition to the nice Drupal for Churches and DrupalEd packages. Those of us setting up corporate Web sites with next to no budget could really use something that comes "out of the box" with:
I'm not saying that we can't do these things now with the right modules, I just think the install profiles let us do what we want a lot more easily and with less of a learning curve.
i agree, i tried this
i agree, i tried this interface once in past and moved over to command line extractor and poEdit, whats really easier :-)
Comment/Register and Submit/Register hybrid forms
Here's a very useful feature that may still be added to Drupal 6:
I think it both be a usability improvement and would help site owners to create communities easier if the comment and story submit forms or any form which requires log-in had a built-in quick registration form.
Let's suppose a visitor who isn't member of my site wants to submit a comment.
1) In the case comments are allowed to anonymous: he enters his email address (if he wants to register he also suggests a password) on the top of the comment form, he types his comment and then he has to chose between clicking on "submit comment" or "register and submit" comment.
2) In the case comments aren't allowed to anonymous: he enters his email/password, types his comment and and clicks on "register and submit"
3) In the case email confirmation is enabled for registering and comments aren't allowed for anonymous: he does the same but receives the email verification and the comment remains unpublished until he confirms his registration.
The same applies to other content such as stories, pages or whatever requires authentication on your site.
There's something similar to this idea already on production on sites such as engadget and I found it was really cool for creating communities which is one of the missions of Drupal.
More core install profiles
I said this would be part of my battleplan for D6. We're going to need a lot of CRUD, still :P
I had already started a wiki page for this on groups.drupal.org -- see http://groups.drupal.org/node/2404. Please come over and join us!
--
The future is Bryght.
My list...
Backup module would be fantastic!
A few things I've found awkward:
1. Drupal forms don't remember their content when I accidentally go to a new page and hit back. I don't know why this is -- but I know other forms on the web remember.
2. finer control of access control, particularly for content creation / editing / deletion. Eg, I'd like users on my site to be able to sticky nodes, but not have full admin control.
3. some sort of system for taking a test site live. Most people seem to develop a drupal site in a subfolder. I'm not sure how easy it is to move it from there and replace an old site -- not got to that bit with my site yet! ;)
4. weights for menus should be on the main menu admin page (I think I heard this is on the way)
5. no menu items should have their weights locked -- having a locked item on 0 effectively halves the number of weights if I want it at the top or the bottom
6. maybe it's because I don't yet fully understand how to use theming, but it seems to me that there should be a way of applying theming common to all themes. Eg, theming comment links, taxo terms, or views -- those seem independent of the actual Theme to me.
7. comment links seem to show up where I don't want them. On a locked-down site, users see 'You can't post comments', which is a bit weird
8. add the word 'version' to the description of the admin item where you get version info, for people who use Firefox type-ahead to find stuff in the list
Last of all, I would really LOVE it if image.module could be brought into core, or made more promiment to new users. I found it very hard to find out about how to use images in drupal when I started -- and images are important to most people making websites!
Thanks for reading, and keep up the good work -- Drupal rocks :)
Replies
1. Drupal forms don't remember their content when I accidentally go to a new page and hit back. I don't know why this is -- but I know other forms on the web remember.
This is actually a bug, and one that has been fixed in the development version of Drupal. I forgot but it could be that we backported that fix to DRUPAL-5. In other words; it might be fixed in the next bugfix release.
3. some sort of system for taking a test site live. Most people seem to develop a drupal site in a subfolder. I'm not sure how easy it is to move it from there and replace an old site -- not got to that bit with my site yet! ;)
Staging would be useful, but if falls under the category "legendary tasks". Not exactly "small and simple" ...
4. weights for menus should be on the main menu admin page (I think I heard this is on the way)
Looks like _everyone_ agrees with that. It's been reported a few times, and I believe there is even an issue for that in the patch queue. Looks like a no-brainer commit, given someone steps forward to do the actual implementation work.
Staging would be useful, but
Staging would be useful, but if falls under the category "legendary tasks". Not exactly "small and simple" ...
Some good documentation then? On moving drupal to the root folder, and keeping other other subfolders accessible, for example. There's plenty about this on the forum, but it's a heap of contradictions and things that don't work.
Are you saying
Dries, are you saying there WILL be a 5.2? I, for one would like to see that as a stepping stone to 6.x, even if it delays 6.x for a month or two.
Nancy W.
Drupal Cookbook (for New Drupallers)
Adding Hidden Design or How To notes in your database
NancyDru
Not really
If there is a 5.2, it would be a security / bugfix release and not likely to delay work on 6.x.
Michelle
--------------------------------------
My site: http://shellmultimedia.com
maintainers
The Drupal 5 branch has it's own maintainer who is responsible for determining what bug fixes that people contribute and test go into it. When it is time, he will branch and release it. It is available in cvs now for those who wish to participate in testing.
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
# 7 - "you can't post comments"
I don't know if this is your issue, but a combination of conflicting settings will give you this too, and it can be removed (in my circumstances). Im posting this here (and here http://drupal.org/node/137100) since this page showed up when I searched for that issue. :-)
You a) need permission to administer comments, b) you need to edit and disable comments on all existing nodes that were created before you disabled comments for the content type in general.
In my case, what led me here was:
* I created a story node (say, node/15)
* I disabled comments on all content types, incl story (afterwards).
* I removed comment permissions on all users in access control
* I saw "can't post comments" on node/15, but nothing on other story nodes.
I had to give admin administer cmment permissions, go into node/15, and disable comments. As I said, all my subsequent story nodes did not have that "can't post comments" line, because they were created after commented was automatically disabled.
Again - your mileage may vary.
G
Please Dries... Please!!!!
Please do not, under any circumstances turn Drupal into a clone of Wordpress as some of the many forum comments seem to want (makes me wonder why the heck they aren't using wordpress instead of trying to mangle drupal).
And please continue to have no fear in breaking backwards compatibility, that is my number one reason for using Drupal.
Don't Think There Is A Worry
Drupal 6 will require module upgrades if all the expected patches get in. There are some great new changes.
And, many of the core developers are building some complex sites with drupal. The scratch your own itch has much very non-blog functionality being written.
--
Matt
http://www.mattfarina.com
This is actually good to hear
I may have let myself get a little too sucked up into a frenzy by some of the demanding posts in the general discussion forum.
Anti-Usability Request?
Wordpress is EXTREMELY user-friendly -- except when it comes to the backend. This is where Drupal excels at providing an extensible framework which is easily skinned, tabbed, etc.
I've said before that Drupal stops short at being user friendly as it seems to be intended as a developer framework, which results in people mangling blog software (read: Wordpress) in order to create a website.
Don't clone Wordpress. Agreed. But please consider non-developers in future releases of Drupal.
I see our difference of opinion here
is that we define a user very differently. I define the "user" as myself. You define a user as some imaginary person out there who is slighted from using Drupal because they won't spend the time to learn the intricacies of how to operate it, and therefore Drupal should have training wheels attached so that these people don't crash and scratch their knees.
But I guess I have to admit some degree of selfishness in that I'd rather see something that is better for me. Then again, maybe all bicycles should have training wheels pre-installed, after all, some poor user somewhere in the world might have to learn something.
P.S. I apologize for some of the sarcasm, but I don't think any project should follow Wordpress's lead, which I shared in the "drupal.com" thread.
Who is the USER?
As per some of my threads I count the USER as being (depending on site audience):-
These are USERs for many, many sites. Almost ALL sites will have at least one of the above categories. Therefore whilst agreeing Drupal should not try and clone other systems, it does need to increase USER friendliness.
I count our selves as developers, admins or other technical/user support roles. If the purpose of the Drupal development environment is to create sites for only our selves or other Drupal administrators to use then we would be the USER.
Ofcourse this is my opinion and I reserve 'the right to be wrong' ;¬)
Regards
John Bryan
www.ALT2.com
Application Integration Specialists
Tel: UK 08700 3456-31
Users
The list you gave sounds more like your site's userbase than Drupal's userbase. Drupal's users are site builders. It's up to Drupal's users to make things work best for _their_ users.
Michelle
--------------------------------------
My site: http://shellmultimedia.com
So forget the opinion of those who use the end product?
It concerns me if opinions such as "{the opinions of site visitors} as some imaginary person out there who is slighted from using Drupal because they won't spend the time to learn the intricacies of how to operate it, and therefore Drupal should have training wheels attached so that these people don't crash and scratch their knees." were prevalent. (to be fair this probably refered to hobbyist site developers rather than site users)
I take it that some don't count themselves as being in service delivery. It all depends on who's benefit you believe the result is for. Yes a site Developer is 'a' user of the Drupal installation and Drupal's admin screens, just as a network engineer is 'a' user of a Microsoft Windows Server installation and Server admin screens. But 'the' USER of Drupal is the site visitor in the same way that 'the' USER of a computer network is the network visitor who logs on to do the task they want, without wanting to understand how the network operates or how to program TCPIP over Cisco routers etc.
The question is - What is the reason for using Drupal? Is it to be a cool toy to please yourselve with (legitimate for hobby purposes etc.)
Or is it to provide a facility to others? (whether commercial or voluntary) If you are developing sites for others to use then you are, in the bigger picture, a developer and Drupal is a tool or product with the purpose of serving the needs of site visitors or site owner - the USER
I don't deny that in a sense we are 'a' user in a limited sense, but in the context of who's opinion at the end of the day counts it is the site visitor that is 'the' USER. If they can not easily use the resulting site then they will not use it or find someone who can make a site that they can use. Even for charity sites (etc.) what the point of creating a site that no one wants to use?
I don't mean to diatribe, as much as I try it's my natural mode 8¬). It just seems at times that the 'userability' for the site visitor is underplayed in discussions and development. That does not mean it is under-rated, before I get beaten up ;¬) just that it how it seems at times.
Regards
John Bryan
www.ALT2.com
Application Integration Specialists
Tel: UK 08700 3456-31
Drupal focuses more on site builders
The site builder is the one who knows their audience and has a far better idea of what their particular audience needs/wants than some remote group of developers would. This is why Drupal gives site builders the flexibility they need/want - they are the 'customers' of Drupal. The site visitors are the 'customers' of the site builder.
Drupal is used on a very wide variety of sites - which is where a straight comparison to something like Wordpress falls over. It can be used to build complex sites or simple sites, it can be used to build sites for a technical audience or a non technical audience. It can also be used to build usable sites or unusable sites depending on the abilities/care of the site builder. There is no one baseline standard of usability that crosses all audiences and contexts, and it is the site builders responsibility to make a site usable for it's audience.
The easier Drupal makes it to build and customise sites the easier it becomes for a site builder to tailor the sites interface and functionality to their audience. There is always room for improvement in how easy it is to customise Drupal - the upcoming changes (especially the new theme engine system) in Drupal 6 look like big steps forward in lowering customisation barriers for site builders.
Sure, the site builder is usually also the biggest user of their site too so there is some cross over and common ground between what a site builder wants and what a site visitor wants. But ultimately it is the site builders not the site visitors that shape the Drupal project with bug reports, feature requests, patches, contrib modules etc - it is a community of site builders.
--
Anton
New to Drupal? | Troubleshooting FAQ
Example knowledge base built with Drupal
Drupal is a tool
Technically, Joe User who can barely turn on the computer to navigate to my site is a PHP user, too. Should PHP be designed to be easy for him? Or should I use PHP in such a way to create a product that he can use? Drupal is just the next step in that. It's a tool to build websites, not the end product. The end product depends on what you do with Drupal. So I maintain that it is the site builders that are the real users of Drupal. The end users are _our_ users. Not Drupal's.
Michelle
--------------------------------------
My site: http://shellmultimedia.com
Search and Multipage Forms
Hi all,
I would like to see improvements in Search Module and Multipage Forms in 6.x.
1. Search: As far as I know, it is still imposible or very difficult to customize the search interface through custom modules. What is very important for me (and for many others I think) is to be able to customize the search form through my custom module so that, for example, the search is realized only in certain content types. There are lots of discussions without solutions about this in the forum. There isn't any information util in Documentation either.
There are discusions about this in following nodes:
http://drupal.org/node/124167
http://drupal.org/node/130519
http://drupal.org/node/124963
http://drupal.org/node/68571
2. Multipage forms: The forms API and the multipage forms functionality was changed by Drupal 5.x. There was a working example for 4.7, but for 5.x some things don't work well, i.e. hiding or disabling buttons in certain steps, passing form_values to form_validate function etc.
The discussions about this functionality are:
http://drupal.org/node/136929
http://drupal.org/node/75237
http://drupal.org/node/125145
http://drupal.org/node/113701
http://drupal.org/node/68936
Best regards.
Better in Drupal 6
I've been playing with exactly this sort of multi-step thing. I can confirm things are a lot better in Drupal 6.
I put up a Drupal 5 wizard module for my employer. It does do things like enable/disable buttons depending on which step you're on. Bugs in FAPI2 mean it's not all that useful, but there'll be a Drupal 6 version soon.
Different default filters
Portfolio?
Different default filters depending on role
This has been requested in the feature request queue. The challenge here is the UI. The filter and input formats are already quite daunting for some. Either way, this is something I'd support, especially if it comes with one or more UI simplifications.
If you have a menu item that isn't a node, list all nodes under it. And the ability to add node to the menu but not showing it in the menu item drop down list. So that menus is treaded like menus and not nodes.
I get that question every week, and yes, it's too hard to do for a newbie. The typical use case they approach me with is something like this: "I want to create a portfolio page.". They want to create a menu item called 'Portfolio' or 'Projects' and they want to add a number of projects to it. Sounds simple, not?
Some people already figured out that it "probably" make sense to make each project its own node -- but 9 out of 10 times they are not sure that that is the right thing to do. Most people, however, will attempt to use stories or pages for this, but some people will actually setup a new node type by themselves. Then, when they create a project node, they expect that they can 'push' it to some sort of container. They expect a little checkbox like 'Add this to my project page'.
In the comment above, detot was describing it as "adding it to a menu but not showing the node". I've seen other descriptions too. Point is, people don't know what to call this.
So one possible solution is: (i) create a custom node type 'projects', (ii) setup a taxonomy term 'projects', (iii) setup a path alias 'projects' that points to the ugly taxonomy term URL, and (iv) add a custom menu that points to your new 'projects' alias.
Two days later, they usually come back with: "But, but ... how do I reorder the nodes on that page?" ... :)
So ... super common use case, no intuitive or straightforward solution ... It usually takes at least 3 attempts (totally different approaches) to get this accomplished ... I'd dare to say that 50% of us went through that or a very similar scenario once. And that's really bad, because this is exactly what managing content is about. :/
Sure I can create a new
Sure I can create a new custom node type, but how do i list this nodes with "core drupal"?
It's not core, but you can
It's not core, but you can do it easily with Views (once you figure out Views, that is!).
- Corey
Aaaugh!
Is it just me, or is this catch-phrase getting really tiring?
;-)
... especially in the context of the Dries' description of talking with a newbie who just wants to do this
one,
simple,
obvious task.
Wha..?
...sob...
.dan.
How to troubleshoot Drupal | http://www.coders.co.nz/
.dan. is the New Zealand Drupal Developer working on Government Web Standards
outliner
It seems to be important to point out that, this is what the book module refactoring to be an outliner is about. You would be able to have hierarchical pages with a generic outliner.
pre made web example
isn;t it great if drupal had his own standar pre made web. new user install pree made database + theme
oh this is dupal, this is what can u make with drupal.
pre made web with menu, customes menu layout, custome theme, custome block, custome profile layout, custome node etc. this is what can u make with standar drupal + modification.
i'm a new user
1. i want an example
2. i want 2 know how to show my node (with frontpage option check) to be 2 teaser layout or customize my front page 2 be dinamic.
3. the other page i can make it with only html code and assign it with page content type.
i think it's the important think for new user and also for me.
Although your "This is
Although your "This is Drupal!" suggestion doesn't really fit in with the request for "Small Drupal Changes" which Dries started, I second your proposal. I would even add all contributed modules to it, or at least some location where all contributed modules are shown. Sometimes, I come across a new module, if I'm lucky I find some arcane readme.txt which begins with "First, write some Assembler", and that's it. That's a pity, because I'm sure there are some real gems among them. The only problem is: nobody will ever know. So, why not make a true Demo Site?
Ludo
maybe u right, this is
maybe u right, this is doesn't realy fit. how about add example pre made website near drupal core download? i think it's help alot for a new user.
with real demo site new user can not see the source code (theme, snip, php code in block, customize menu), admin setting, role setting, content, etc.
if there are any pre made website new user can see the change. help them 2 learn about that stuff and then search from drupal.org how 2 make web like that.
user search from drupal.org also already have their point of view. not blank at all.
maybe the best example i can think was if some one buy a php book, the book shipped with demo so user not hard 2 understand and can see the example. so if they make wrong in coding they know whats the wrong are.
oh, drupal pro book also had it's code repository. it's help alot in speeding 2 learn.
sori for my bad english >.<
Our friend from
Our friend from opensourcecms.com already provide that. new user also can compare drupal with another CMS. If you want it to have a "production-ready" look, i preferred to add link block linked to some awesome drupal site.
please keep it small and powerfull drupal.
Thank you
Try asking
If someone has a site that you like, try asking them for a list of what modules they use, and maybe even a backup of their database. Many people will do that.
Nancy W.
Drupal Cookbook (for New Drupallers)
Adding Hidden Design or How To notes in your database
NancyDru
It's a small world, a small suggestion! Le monde est petit!
Here is a very small suggestion!
Add the number of comments that will be display in the "most recent comments" block. The same way has in the "active subjects" block. It is currently lock at 10 in the code.
Thanks.
Alexandre Racine
www.alexandreracine.com - mon site perso
www.salsamontreal.com La référence salsa à Montréal
See patch queue
There is a patch in the patch queue for that someone.
small but important
I've seen this asked about many times in the forums, and even had to kludge a similar feature for a website I'm building. The FAPI currently allows for creating multi-page forms, but only when the form was designed to be multi-page in the first place. It would be nice if any form could be extended into a multi-page format through use of the API.
Themes can define regions, but they cannot have a settings page in the way modules do. Themes are usually hard-coded with site-specific information, which makes re-use very difficult.
Example: In my node.tpl.php, I want to optionally display information, depending on the node type. As a designer/programmer, I can easily write different .tpl.php files for the node types, but how do I let my end-user change this later on? Or what if they create a new content type, and want to include/exclude the information there? There is currently no way for themes to have their own settings page.
Just a few observations.
- Corey
wizard for modules
installing modules has become rather easy during the last couple of years. but i have seen lots of new users wondering all over the admin pages to get it right. so how about a small wizard (profile?):
* when you check in the modules menu a new module and press submit the next screen is
* access right, directly pointed towards right spot in the complete menu or only the checkboxes for that module(s) then after submit ("next")
* the settings page of the new module(s), then after submit ("next")
* optional if enabled the throttle page for the module(s)
some sort of wizard for installing modules in core will really help people getting to know drupal.
--
groets
bert boerland
--
groets
bert boerland
Outline, date format, and taxonomy blocks
1) Outline: it'd be great, at higher-level book pages (chapters, indexes, whatnots), to jump to the next page on the same level. For instance, use the "next" link to go from chapter1.index to chapter2.index - don't go down one level from a chapter page.
2) Outline: I'd love to be able to outline 1000+ -page books. Currently, that's pretty much impossible.
3) Date: a default date format which accepts years in the 1800s would be wonderful.
4) Taxonomy blocks: when terms in one vocabulary go over 10000, it should be possible to prune the block view, either by taking out all terms on the same level, or by taking out all but, oh, say 20 terms on either side of the current term.
CKK field support of taxonomy terms might take care of things, too.
Thanks!
http://www.henriettes-herb.com
sugestion
Something that I would verry apreciate and isn't so much code-work (I think);
-Possibility to ad ranks (for example; When a user posts 20 comments (ore node, ore....) he will get a title under his name as 'starter' at 20 posts, het get the titel 'pro' and so further. (The possibility to ad an iamge in pace of the rank title is also welcome ;-) )
-Possibility to ad images at roles; so that you could use a small picture for the admin.
-Possibility to show the role (and rank) from a user in posts, comments, forum, just by choose it in the template-page (like you could choose now of the avatar (user-picture) will be shown.
What also will be pretty; a little setting in the template-page where you could change the comment and read more link from place (I like the read more link first, but in drupal 5, the comments links stands before the read more link, and I don't know drupal as good to change it myself).
When my english is to bad, sorry, but I'm dutch and not so good in english ;-).
Menu for drupal
Great article css drop down
http://www.tyssendesign.com.au/articles/css/dropdown-low-down/
The Script is inspired by Sons of Suckerfish and Drop-Down Menus, Horizontal Style and is based on jQuery.
http://pfirsichmelba.de/artikel-scripts/suckerfish-accessible.html
using multidomain
Already a module multidomain and
http://drupal.org/project/multidomain
in dev module PressFlow Multidomain
http://drupal.org/project/pressflow_multidomain
http://bryght.com/blog/adrian/multidomain-module-for-drupal-5
It will be great if its on core, with multilang we can have multidomain with same database
of Dries suggestions, I'm
of Dries suggestions, I'm casting my vote for
#4
#7
#8
My suggestion
We need the ability to restrict the affiliate login websites to specific websites.
The IMAP module does it already, but not the Drupal website network login .
Marcel
http://www.BlogPostsForSale.com
http://ComputingNews.com
How about allowing html in
How about allowing html in node titles?
newms
Nice idea
I'd like too to be able to add some HTML or some Unicode entities to titles, like adding a star between two words, on an elegant arrow.
/*_*/
http://www.xmacinfo.com
Feeds' popularity
Ability to have statistics about popularity/read counts of each feed.
Thanks!
People subscribed to your
People subscribed to your feeds is reported by Ma href="http://drupal.org/project/xstatistics">XStatistics
--
Ixis (UK): Drupal support, Drupal hosting.
Thanks! It's exactly what I
Thanks! It's exactly what I need. But it should be in kernel of course.
not core
xstats will not hit core any time soon, though i think it makes a good candidate. ber /might/ be working on not just how often the feed is read by what reader but also the "on behalf of x readers" that is in refferrer.
--
groets
bert boerland
--
groets
bert boerland
referrer info would be nice
That referrer info would be nice. There are lots of readers hidden in those aggregators
-------------------
http://www.PrivacyDigest.com/ News from the Privacy Front
http://www.SunflowerChildren.org/ Helping children around the world
Daylight saving time?
Will there ba a Daylight saving time feature? We've been waiting it for so long...
Would like that very well, too!
I just wanted to suggest the same - luckily first used firefoxs' sitesearch!
I hope this feature makes it into drupal 6!
see this issue
regarding DST and it's current status: http://drupal.org/node/11077
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
Configurable teaser
Hello,
A suggestion what I'm missing right now:
Please make a possibility to change the layout AND the text for the teaser. Give the administrator the possibility to turn on or off for certain types. IE, no change possible to the teaser for blog-entries so that a teaser is shown the normal way, but make your own teaser, with his own pictures, layout, text,... for pages. If left empty, then take the teaser the normal way
Or is there already a module doing this ????
Contemplate will do it. -
Contemplate will do it.
- Corey
some of this is 6
In 6, thanks to some jQuery, there is a teaser splitter on nodes. It lets you split the body into two fields with the teaser filled in from the courser pointer and then change the teaser if you like. You can, also, join things back together.
This isn't as configurable as you list but a change to what's in 5.
--
Matt
http://www.mattfarina.com
...
An issue was started regarding this ..... http://drupal.org/node/134657
Best regards
Menu customizations
I was thinking if any menu customizations are thought to be in place for ver. 6.
Saying that I am considering something like :
I hope these are not suggested somewhere else, if are, accept my apologies.
David Oster aka George Pasparakis
#5. check out
#5. check out "update_status" module - it's available for 5.x http://drupal.org/project/update_status
Basis for module notifications
Yep, that module acts as the basis for the module notification system that will go into Drupal 6 (hopefully). We're refactoring and improving that module, and are encouraging people to help. You can read up on the history and the required changes in the issue queue. Hopefully some people will come to help.
Username vesus Realname
i don't like to see a username per default in articles and comments. This is security related information... if i have the username i only need to guess the password... and not both, what makes things much more complicated and took much much longer. So only display the real name and not the username that should be different...
I couldn't agree more but
I couldn't agree more but for a different reason. People are used to having a different name and username on accounts. This being the same confuses everybody no end. Witness my username on Drupal.org which I only intended as a login name and not as an alias. It's just one more thing that has to be explained to users that brings no usability benefits I can see.
______________________
Dominik Lukes
http://www.dominiklukes.net
http://www.hermeneuticheretic.net
http://www.czechupdate.com
http://www.techwillow.com
+2 for this feature
I also agree with the idea behind this feature. It sure is a security issue and a cosmetic one, some users would like their real name to appear on nodes or comments instead of their username.
--
... Morpheus: What is "real"? How do you define "real"? If you 're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then "real" is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain...
Authorship and realname
It's my biggest bad surprise. Drupal does not manage the choice of the login / pseudonym / real name. The authorship module only resolves the display into the post, however that creates confusion because all other displays are still based on the login name.
Add Display Name field(s) to core in addition to Username...
+50!
This is a security issue! I will pay good money to make this happen. What needs to happen?
Add Display Name field(s) to core in addition to Username...
http://drupal.org/node/102679
Cheers Daniel
Make a menu item do "nothing"
I once posted a question here with regard to a "dummy menu item" or a "menu separator", i.e. a menu item that does nothing, except separating two groups of menu items, for instance:
Dogs
Cats
____
Mercedes
Honda
BMW
____
Soup
Pudding
Its the "_____" I'm talking about. Judging from the replies I got, this is not so trivial as it appears. As a small improvement, I would like to see this added. It can definitely add some cosmetics to the menu. As it is now, I think it takes too much tinkering to add "nothing" to the menu.
Ludo
+1 on this, as well. I've
+1 on this, as well. I've taken to separating things in different menus just to achieve this effect.
A good request
A fix for this was surprisingly concise in the end.
It would be a tiny, safe patch to roll into core, if we are keen.
(although it is one extra operation inside a tight loop)
.dan.
How to troubleshoot Drupal | http://www.coders.co.nz/
.dan. is the New Zealand Drupal Developer working on Government Web Standards
In the handbooks
See here: http://drupal.org/node/143322
--
Larry Garfield
http://www.garfieldtech.com/blog
http://www.palantir.net
--
Larry Garfield
http://www.garfieldtech.com/
Thinking Functionally in PHP: https://leanpub.com/thinking-functionally-in-php
-1
this is basically non-semantic cruft.
It's also bad for accessibility.... all menu items should behave the same for consistency.
I think that if your menu items need to be grouped
you should just put them in separate menus ... or figure out a way to do it in CSS
True, all menu items should
True, all menu items should behave the same for consistency. But I think many people expect a separator to be a menu item itself, i.e. to be an integral part of the menu system. The question is: do you give preference to "the system", in which case you are right, or do you give preference to the users? Obviously, I can't really supply any figures on how many people want to be able to put a separating line in their menus, but I think it would simply a nice addition, useful to many. "Figure out a way to do it in CSS" is not really the most user-friendly advice... The question should be: is there a lot of overhead caused by this addition or not? I am not in a position to answer this, but it would seem a bit unlikely to me that the option to put a line or a separator in the menu would be such a hassle, codewise.
Grouping menu items in separate menus is, in my opinion, very counter-intuitive. Sure, it's an option, but it's also a hassle. And I am still assuming that updates need to do away with hassle.
Just a remark: calling this request "cruft" is, umm, not really a valuable contribution to the discussion.
Ludo
sorry, i didn't mean to call
sorry, i didn't mean to call the request "cruft"
but making Drupal output the following
certainly contains non-semantic "cruft" (dummy spacer menu items is not the answer)
If the menu items are unrelated, they need to be in separate unordered lists.
Currently Drupal implements that by making you create separate menus.
Certainly the process of getting separate unordered lists could be streamlined
For example, Drupal could allow menus to be nested
(so that you still get only one block to assign,
and you get the separation that you desire
with semantically valid code to boot :)
Fix it with css
This can easily be achieved using css. All you have to do is create a custom block tpl for the region you intend to place these blocks. Then set them up so that the menus are created in a default set of divs that are styled for the entire region, then create a secondary set of divs (or just one div) that you style through the block name ex: #block-user-1 .myspacerdiv {height: 40px; background-color:........ you get the idea} If you only give height attributes to the divs that you want to appear and there is no content in them, then you should have total control of your spacer blocks.
The Drupal Folder
Ideally, the Drupal Folder should not contain any user files. Currently, it contains the settings folder, user installed modules, themes, etc. It would be better if those files lived in a folder at the same level as the Drupal folder (i.e. sibling), rather than inside the Drupal folder (i.e. child). That would make the process of upgrading Drupal to a new version clean, easy and simple.
I second that. And while
I second that. And while we're at the topic, I would also make a separate /css folder on the same level as, say, /files. As it is now, css files are spread over the /themes, /sites/all/modules/..., /modules/... folders, making it very cumbersome to trace which css file is actually causing this or that style. I would simply group them in one place.
Ludo
misc chaos
It's not really an usabilty issue, but yeah, this was one of the first things i thought, as i checked out drupal.
The misc-folder is very chaotic, has a lot of different stuff in it. This could be much cleaner.
Yes and no
This misc folder I agree needs to be factored out to the appropriate modules. However, putting all CSS files together in one directory is no small task. Right now, every module can provide its own CSS file. as part of the module, and Drupal pulls it from wherever. Putting them all in one directory would mean you'd have to manually move the CSS file after installing the module (since Drupal itself can't write to the disk outside of the files directory for security reasons). You'd also lose the ability to know which module a CSS file came from. If you remove a module, you'd have to remember to go remove that CSS file, too.
Files are organized right now by module, which is easiest for administration and maintenance. Until/unless we have a "drupal-get" type setup, splitting auxiliary files out into separate directories by-type rather than by-module would make administration and maintenance much harder.
--
Larry Garfield
http://www.garfieldtech.com/blog
http://www.palantir.net
--
Larry Garfield
http://www.garfieldtech.com/
Thinking Functionally in PHP: https://leanpub.com/thinking-functionally-in-php
Drifting off target
I can see where the style sheets might need to reside with their themes, however user installed themes do not need to reside in the Drupal folder.
Ideally, the Drupal Folder should not contain any user files. Currently, it contains the settings folder, user installed modules, themes, etc. It would be better if those files lived in a folder at the same level as the Drupal folder (i.e. sibling), rather than inside the Drupal folder (i.e. child). That would make the process of upgrading Drupal to a new version clean, easy and simple.
Save as draft
Isn't that what the "unpublished" state is for? Otherwise this could fall under the workflow module, which is making it to core Drupal 6. For instance unpublished > draft > published. But I feel this will add complexity.
Perhaps "unpublished" should be renamed to "draft"? The simplenews module allows an option "Don't send now" which technically comes down to "keep state unpublished" but has a "draft" feel to it.
Draft vs unpublished
I don't agree on this one.... for a blog site this might be the case. But please take into account that many drupal sites are community sites where a lot of users post their content. This content might not be appropriate, so the site content manager can "unpublish" the post.
A draft is a post which is not yet finished content... so, unpublished content with status "Draft".
worflow
Then that is where the workflow module comes in: unpublished > draft > published.
Auto save...
There are two main times/places where you need this. 1.) Writing new content before clicking the submit button and 2.) Editing existing content
I know this would be a pain, but the most effective and best way to implement this would be to have a setting in the admin to enable/disable autosave (with preferred interval in minutes) and that would automatically submit the post (with AJAX) to a workflow state of "Draft."
This is important because a lot of times you are writing you may not think to hit the "Save Draft" button and so it is important to capture the info before it is submitted by clicking the "Submit" button. That way you could have workflows like:
[create content] draft > unpublished (or moderated) > published
published > [edit] > draft > [submit] > published
Unfortunately I'm not a coder to make this happen.
Chris
ALIAN DESIGN
Additionally - working draft
A few times I've been asked for the ability to edit a published page - creating a draft revision - without 'unpublishing' the live one.
This is for corporate-ended folk where we are using a 'sign-off' queue and all, but the workflow (last time I looked) couldn't seem to let us save an un-signed-off edit without pulling the current, live page.
this is so far off the topic of usability, sorry
.dan.
How to troubleshoot Drupal | http://www.coders.co.nz/
.dan. is the New Zealand Drupal Developer working on Government Web Standards
One another thing
Maybe it does not seem important to lots of people, but I would suggest to provide functionality during site setup to enter SMTP server address. If for some reason (which is often the case) I do not have some mail transfer agent set up on box where I am playing with drupal I would like to avoid using 3rd party module for this.
Sorted tables
The arrows, arrow-desc.png and arrow-asc.png, for sorted tables are confusing. They point in the opposite direction IMHO. I believe they should point in the direction of the grow. I suggest checking some desktop applications and considering a switch in the images.
Another problem is that the default sorting order is Ascending. ("default sorting order" = what happens when you click an unsorted column header.) I believe the default order should be Descending. This is much more useful for numbers and dates (BTW, for this reason I'm tired of clicking twice on the "Created" column here in the forums). I admit that it's less desired for strings, but I think sorting by strings is less common. I find myself almost always clicking twice on column headers, because this default order is usually the least useful.
(Another thing I don't like is that the "order" URL parameters, as in "order=Created", contains the localized human-readable name of the column instead of the field name. I feel it's wrong.)
Suggestion: allow users to edit comments on their nodes
Currently, only those who have the "administer comments" permission can edit comments. So bloggers on a site cannot edit comments posted on their blog. Allowing this is a matter of changing a few lines of code in core -- it's hardly possible by writing a new module. (But I don't know yet what changes in core deleting a comment would require.)
There are 3 classic permissions for each node type right now:
"create story content"
"edit own story content"
"edit story content"
I suggest adding another:
"edit own story content comments"
(or "administer own story content comments")
These will appear (in q=admin/user/access) under the "comment module".
That would be very
That would be very useful,yeah. I think I saw an issue with forum moderator only allowing actual forum nodes rather than comments under them being editable (without "administer comments" permission"). So it could help with that as well.
Random comments
- Enable the <blockquote> tag by default. It's not in "Allowed HTML tags". I'd also suggest adding to garland the CSS to display a quotes image in the background.
- It's possible now to have a different theme for the administration. It would be nice to be able to specify a different language as well.
- Add a "clear cache" button? (to the admin/settings/performance page maybe). As a developer I use the 'devel' module for this, but I feel it should be in core.
+1 for the clear cache
+1 for the clear cache button for the very same reason you give!
--
Ixis (UK) providing Drupal consultancy and Drupal theme design.
--
Ixis (UK): Drupal support, Drupal hosting.
Clear cache
+1 for "clear cache" button
I solved this by creating an unpublished PHP page personally, but a clear cache button in the administration would be better.
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://erdemkose.com/
Drupal Turkiye
Some more small things here
Some more small things here and there that can improve usability:
(at least from what i would like for drupal 6)
1. In Views: a way to assign your own wrapping to the fields, including unwrapped values, which saves theming time.
Contemplate does something like this, but per single node instead of listings and only one template per content type.
Also, now that modules can use content types from core, perhaps the same trend could be done with Views for all filtering functionality.
2. Expanding "edit all nodes" to have view permissions and to restrict "administer nodes" to the selected types.
Those who can edit unpublished nodes should be able to view them too.
I'm not sure if this is already done for owned nodes, but certainly not for roles with "edit all nodes".
3. Let contemplate handle unpublished nodes, which won't be related node permissions much in the way views work.
It is easier than making a view for each type, because you can theme it right away.
4. Make the check for "administer nodes" return false for access control, thus allowing non-global editors to benefit from many modules that require "administer node".
5. A separate "publish nodes" permission that includes revisions, sticky and promote, since "edit all nodes" don't cover it.
This will be like the way modr8 module prints its checkbox for users without these permissions.
6. Be able to add multiple authors in the author field. Perhaps a split and loop on the string would do.
7. As suggested on this thread, let the book module be used for hierachies.
The current book wrapper from category works good for grouping nodes into child pages, but can be extended for full integration with other modules.
This doesn't sound like an easy task.
8. Use collapsible fieldsets on the access control pages, to hide permissions checkbox rows per module.
Also, this could follow the same grouping as the module page, instead of the current alphabetical order.
9. Uncollapse of the taxonomy/category fieldset on node creation pages.
Hopefully the content_taxonomy module would replace this need or already does.
10. Some degree of integration of all fieldsets on the node creation pages with the cck fieldgroups, so that you can collapse, uncollapse, weight, hide, widget, edit and group them for custom needs.
Fieldgroups already handle the title, taxonomy/category and og fieldset weights.
If this is difficult, a group function like that of the form filtering module would be good, except because it also wraps the taxonomy/category fieldset and that should be uncollapsed, as mentioned in the previous point.
This would separate the cck input fields from the rest of the "advanced options".
Language & Menu
I'm pretty sure my suggestions aren't quite simple, but they are so critical for me at this moment that I can't resist to post it here :) (If anyone would like to copy/paste/move this to another thread be my guest. It mainly concers about internationalisation since I've read this is going into core)
1) When you 'click' create translation, I'd like to see all custom fields created with cck to be filled in by their original node values. This way, the user doesn't have to copy/paste exact fields which will be the same in every language (eg birth date, drivers licence ...) Before you say, hey, use the clone module, read on for my second wish ..
2) When you have have a custom field type from the node reference and when you click 'create translation', I'd like to see that the corresponding selected node id from your desired language is also chosen. I'm not sure if I'm clear enough, so here's a simple example.
You have a content type which is called 'fruits' and you created nodes called 'Appel', 'Sinaasappel' and 'Tomaat'. You translated them to English, so you have 'Apple', 'Orange' and Tomato'. Now in another content type, let's say 'Drinks', I've created the node reference field where you can select values from the fruits ct. I've made a node called 'Fruitdrank' and selected 'Appel' and 'Sinaasappel' as references for this node. Now when I click 'create translation', I get the english values in the select list but they are not selected. In this case, there aren't many, but I've had a real life experience where I had more then 200 values and searching and clicking them was really hard. So what I'd like to see, is that 'Apple' and 'Orange' are selected.
I'm going to dive into the code myself this weekend to see if I can fix it (I will, but since it has to be done on monday, I don't think it will be thàt clean).
I also have a third small issue, but I've read also the menu module has been rewritten and there are modifications on the book module, but still here goes: 'Associate' nodes automatically to parent menu item, but never show this menu itm on screen. I'm doing a css trick where I set 'display: none' when the menu gets into the third level. I don't want to see it, but I want the parent menu to be expanded so one knows in which section of the site he's surfing.
Anyway that's my 2 cents. I'll probably talk about them with you Dries somewhere in June (friday the first if I'm correct) when we meet on a small discussion evening with Wim (from Across).
Apart from these issues I'm having now, I'm really falling in love with Drupal, so keep up the monumental work! (And I'll start contributing patches any time now!)
Story comments and forums integration
It would be nice to be able to integrate story comments into the forums.
I would use the vBDrupal method: on the story submission form, add a "Publish as forum topic on" and a drop-down with the list of forums or let the administrator define a default forum in which stories can be handled.
Another possibility, probably easier to implement would be to let people duplicate the forum content type on the "content types" admin page and let us add CCK fields to forum-based content types. In short, allow us to create our custom content types with forum behavior.
myLearning Curve and the one of others...
When I think about the problems I did encounter and the e-mails I received from new-druppalers after announcement of some of my sites (e.g. http://www.drupal.be/node/453 and http://drupal.org/node/7443#comment-82760 ) the common question is:
How do I create a menu with some pages attached to it ? and I want to be able to publish some images on my site ...
When I think further about it, it is even worse. Sorry, but it is not only drupal 6.0, nor 5.0, nor 4.6 related, but also how drupal is marketed (from a new user point of view). I must admit I was really "scared" when I first encountered the page on my first drupal encounter:
1. download drupal
2. security vulnerabelities
3. upgrading
ref: http://drupal.org/drupal-5.1
....
I didn't even had a first look at drupal and was already scared about the security stuff.... still I downloaded drupal ... next thing is figuring out how I get a simple menu with some pages attached to it.
In my opinion this should be something like:
1. on the drupal homepage I click: "download latest release" (this is how I and many others first encountered drupal)
2. select an "installation profile":
- blog
- community : default menu enabled (with easy explanation on how to extend it)
- sports club
- charity organisation
- clean, lean drupal (as we know it right now)....
especially the combination of drupal marketing and default installation profiles for drupal enable to really reduce the learning curve.
I'm really convinced this will reduce (1) the learning curve for new drupallers, (2) time to market for new sites and thus improve the acceptance of drupal by webmasters (sorry for some of you, but this is not equal to expert php nor to expert drupallers)
Let's share some ideas about this and get it up and running! I'm willing to spent some time on this to get the concept right.
Wouter
Strict order of form's fileds
While I investigating the issue I've found that Drupal's forms haven't strict order(read: proper weight) and some forms like contact forms in generally hasn't weight field. So we couldn't add weight support to any field because we haven't standard of field's weight in Drupal. For example we could recommend to developers always to use weight=30 for submit button and weight=20 for textarea. It will allows to use such strict order in modules which push additional fields in Drupal's form.
here's more details:
http://drupal.org/node/141478
Comments administration
I think it would be nice to have comments administration right from the node, with admins only links such as 'unpublish', 'delete', 'block user'. Major bonus points if Ajax enabled!
---
Biology News Net
---
e! Science News
Visibility based on taxonomy and group
Don't know if this counts as a "small" annoyance, but:
I'm putting together a website for my company which includes, among other things:
The "roles" structure is very useful in terms of controlling what users can do, but not what they can see. For the latter, I imagine that Organic Groups is the way to go, but I don't want to have to describe each individual node in terms of visibility. I'd like the visibility to be controlled by the taxonomy - ie each category should be cross-referenced to OGs, showing which are permitted to see it.
For extra points, users who don't have permission to see the content of a particular category shouldn't even be able to see that category.
Taxonomy access?
It's not core but what you're describing sounds like the taxonomy access contrib module.
Michelle
--------------------------------------
My site: http://shellmultimedia.com
Almost, but not quite...
The Taxonomy Access Control module is almost what I want - but it bases the visibility on roles rather than groups. In theory I could have lots and lots of roles, but in practice it would be much more helpful if I could have, eg:
I misunderstood
Sorry, I thought you were looking at OG as a possibility for access control. I didn't realize you were looking for something to work _with_ OG.
Michelle
--------------------------------------
My site: http://shellmultimedia.com
contact module, categories with unique urls
the core contact module generates a single page yoursite.com/contact, and we have to choose the right category.
it will be great if we have a unique url for each category selection, like yoursite.com/contact/category1, yoursite.com/contact/category1...
nobrainer
* when deleting comments etc, make the "delete" and "cancel" both submit buttons like in most os-es instead of one button and a text.
* when previewing is needed, dont name the submit button "submit" but put the text "next" in to it, wizard alike
--
groets
bert boerland
--
groets
bert boerland
make a difference between user and admin regarding database
Hi,
When I log in as an admin allmost all the "normal" user features are also loaded. I know in 4.7 the url-rewriting for example is loaded according to my devel.module output while for admin-purposes it is not necessary.
I think it would be great if the system makes a difference between the admin usability and the user usability. Also a lot of user-related stuff doesn't need to be loaded for admin-purposes.
In short. The admin-interface should be (in my opinion) more stuff on one-screen. Like a cockpit with only the necessary database interaction, so the usage is the best for monitoring and admin-changes.
The user-interface should be loaded with all the usability features a modern site should have.
Greetings,
Martijn
* when deleting comments
Oh yes!
Security related pices...
1. Integate "Global Redirect" module into core, please
2. Add an SSL Cert to Drupal.org
3. Force secure logins.
4. Drupal.module must force SSL (http://drupal.org/node/93048) and drupal themself must do, too. The login dialog on a different site must force SSL, too - if someone likes to authenticate against Drupal.org database. It must be prohibited to sniff/log passwords inside Drupal.module. I don't know who have done this pice of code, but i'm shocked how careless my password is managed/transfered/saved.
old one
re: Add an SSL Cert to Drupal.org
I suggested this ages ago. Note that there is real overhead on bandwidth and cpu when all traffic is SSL. I might be able to give a strong verisign certificate for free to d.o
--
groets
bert boerland
--
groets
bert boerland
optional
I don't object to having it there, but if you want the function/feature then SSL should be optional. Adding SSL to sites adds a layer of complexity and expense. This may be a moot point with the coming of OpenID client module.
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
There are loadbalancer's in
There are loadbalancer's in front of the infrastructure, isn't it? Place a SSL card inside and the servers have fun... Aside i don't talk about everything should be SSL - but the Login and my plain password must be secured. after the session is open, there is no real need for SSL.
security: drupal module vs. openid
Part of the Drupal 6 plans is to replace the authentication part of drupal.module with openid module, which is much more secure and open then Drupal distributed authentication itself.
...
Many sites use 4.7x with drupal module communicating with 5x with drupal module.
Will these be able to communicate with drupal 6 with the new module ?
Best regards
Likely, no
In all likelihood, no. However, there is an OpenID consumer module available for Drupal 4.7 and 5. Installing that would do *secure* logins using OpenID (and also enable anyone, not just Drupal site runners) to use their OpenIDs to login.
--
The future is Bryght.
...
Since drupal module is still part of the core of both 4.7 and 5x should there be a note somewhere regarding this fact ??
If we look for future upgrades to 6x or fresh installs of 6x then probably shall we discard the core drupal module from now on then ?
Best regards
not quite
The drupal module does other things then distributed authentication. I believe I have seen posted that it would probably be included in D6 for migration paths and such.
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide -|- Black Mountain
-Steven Peck
---------
Test site, always start with a test site.
Drupal Best Practices Guide
Don't know if this is what
Don't know if this is what you're asking for, Dries, but perhaps something involving just a basic theme with a larger default font? Most Drupal themes have smaller fonts: perhaps a very Web 2.0-ish theme with larger fonts and rounded corners would make for a nice starter theme. My users often complain that every theme I've picked for them is too small, and taking a theme but just making the font size larger just doesn't look right.
hope that's small enough..
my apologies if that is not the right place or if I have made the wrong assumptions! I am just a newby here with little experience everything but appreciates the works of a wonderful Community here.
img_assist plugin to tinymce is cool but seems to be conventional. all image insertion tools seem to be similar and follow the pattern of: a popup with thumbnails filtered by a dropdown box of some 'albums'. i was always wondering what if the images list got too long?
I am hoping in img_assist plugin that you would add the ability to customize of the dropdown box(es) so that they can filter by:
-user
-date
-albums
-any other tag (set from administrator menu?)
Thanks.
I don't know if this would
I don't know if this would still qualify as a "smaller" improvement as Dries meant it in his original posting, but here goes.
Drupal's granularity in its access control is already way ahead of the rest of the pack, but still, when you go that way, you'd want it all the way. Would it, therefore, be feasible to include "something" in Drupal's core which allows module makers to granularize administrative access to what their modules produce?
An example. My site publishes a number of "newsletters", which are not administered by me, but by the respective newsletter editors. I would like to give each one of them access to the View(s) which actually run their newsletters, but as it is now, I can only give them access to All Views or to No Views administration. It would be nice if this could be more finetuned, so that User A could administer View A-J, user B View K-Z, and me, the super admin, View A-Z.
Same thing, for instance, to Panels, to ConTemplates etc. It would be ever so nice to be able to provide granular administrative access to their "results".
As I said, I don't know if this is "small" or not, but maybe it's worth a thought.
Ludo
At this moment, putting "bad
At this moment, putting "bad code" in a block can break your entire site, including the administration, making it entirely inaccessible, also to the site administrator. Of course, code should be tested first on the node level, not on the block level, but that is not always possible (or it simply doesn't happen, people being lazy and all :-) ).
If this is "small" enough to change (which I doubt...), I would like to see this made impossible, i.e. make the block die gracefully in such a case, but prevent the whole site becoming inaccessible. As it is now (and as it will probably remain, I'm afraid) Drupal's visitor access and admin access share the same interface. That has its advantages, but not always. Could it be considered to create something like an Administrative Backdoor, password protected probably, and always accessible, so that, for instance, a bad block could always be eliminated without having to go to phpmyadmin or something like that to manually plough through the database?
Ludo
+1
That's a good one.
Wrapping the input in a sandboxed 'eval' or something on block validate would be a small, very good patch.
Both the php content and the php visibility code fields.
again, not usability, really, but small
.dan.
How to troubleshoot Drupal | http://www.coders.co.nz/
.dan. is the New Zealand Drupal Developer working on Government Web Standards
upload module
I'd like to see an option were you can select were to upload the file(s). Let`s say that i`v created 2 directories: /music and /programs. And when I post, to could select were to upload my file. I think this is very useful to have an organized website.
( sorry 4 my english ).
Upload path
Not core but... http://drupal.org/project/uploadpath
Michelle
--------------------------------------
My site: http://shellmultimedia.com
The backup module is a very good idea
If you install a Drupal site for people that has no idea about things like phpMyAdmin and that only want to use their site to publish their ideas or products, a simple backup system woud be a very good idea as it would simplify their life up to the point of making Drupal reachable to people that, otherwise, could not possibly use it.
However, I guess that the existence of this "backup" module would ask almost inmediately for the existence of the "restore backup" module... unless both ideas are integrated in the same module: Backup/restore site module.
I know (or guess) this kind of action would ask for a critical security surveillance and that this might hinder its existence. I have no idea if the restore would be a too easy way of opening a security door.
Some ideas for a backup module:
- Possibility of choosing between saving the backup as a file downloaded into the user system or having it sent to an e-mail account (not necessarily that specified by the current user as his own)?
- Possibility of choosing just database backup or whole site backup (images, themes, etc...)
- Possibility of having it compressed or not? (if not, always compressed if possible?)
- Possibility of automatizing the schedule of the backups if e-mail way chosen?
- Include it in the System maintenance zone (obviously).
Thank you :)
yup
http://drupal.org/project/backup
Works ... OK ... for me.
I'd like to see a heap more options, so I've been extending a version of my own (including facilities for synching with staging sites via XML-RPC) .
Post your suggestions over at that project.
.dan.
How to troubleshoot Drupal | http://www.coders.co.nz/
.dan. is the New Zealand Drupal Developer working on Government Web Standards
Link Directory - Linksdb
Link Directory - Linksdb isnt ported to 5.x but this should be part of the core, and please add subcategories if u do this
Ratings - ratings for comments/stories...
A simple one- customizing search results
AFAIK - the only way to customize the search results (such as whether the use name & date shows for each item) is by overriding the theme function (as shown here: http://drupal.org/node/141779).
Rewriting this code so that it can be customized via a decent UI as part of the search admin pages would be a simple but helpful.
---
Work: BioRAFT
my proposals
i run large community site and a several smaller homepages/blogs (for me, friends), and very annoying thingies for me are:
1. multiple comment pages - #new is not working properly
2. remembering data of anonymous guests that comment blog/site
3. admin interface - lots of things to do with mass renaming, moving stuff to another category etc.
4. simple node conversion? eg. changing blog node to article node and vice versa (same with page and other plain types)?
5. profile.module fields advanced search would be great!
anyway drupal's best cms...
--
Using Drupal since 2005
My Drupal blog - http://blog.elimu.pl/category/drupal/
My Web Dev Company - https://palikowski.eu
My personal blog - http://palikowski.net/blog
1. multiple comment pages -
Issue is here: http://drupal.org/node/6162 I agree it's a stinker.
Switching taxonomy terms between vocabularies is a tricky one - can only be done directly on the database. There's this module for 4.7 - would be great to have that functionality in core: http://drupal.org/project/taxonomy_switch
That also would be handy, but with CCK fields it could get tricky, I've got a load of top-level, no children book pages I'm probably going to have to delete and re-enter manually at some point though.
Usability videos
One more thing: I encourage all of you to look at the video's at http://drupal.org/node/126143. There are a ton of things we can learn and extract from that. Many of these are small tasks that can be implemented in just a couple of hours (and often less). So, if you haven't seen these video's yet -- make sure to check them out! They are a source of inspiration for those willing to help with usability.
Well after a year in the
Well after a year in the community I feel a little more confident to jump in this kind of "would be great if" threads...
1) Menu system administration should allow to easily modify the menu item name, parent and weight, directly from the admin interface, without having to click on the menu item to change it
2) I think there should be a small core module that would allow to actually easily list all terms from a vocab in a block or on a page. This would allow to easily create taxonomy menus without using any contrib module
Hummm that's it for now lol
Later,
Patchak
Kudos for the "save as draft" improvement
Nº4: "Save as draft" feature: It would most helpful-useful if nodes could be filtered or searched according to its draft/published status.
Also, integration of/with tinymce would be great and i think is a much requested improvement.
Any Estimated Time of Arrival for version 6?
Usability when editing post
# 1 automatic extend text area
I have seen somewhere else (tikiwiki?). The text area increases as you are closer to the bottom. A nice feature when you write long post that avoids to use your mouse to resize the area, and let the display closer to natural writing.
# 2 automatic edit / view switch with one clic on the text area
Extremely practical and easily addictive.
# 3 edit post per section
Same comment. It is secure... and allow editing and reorganizing long post. I do not know how to manage the display and the interface so that the sections are save into the same node. I note that WYMeditor had the potential to resolve this type of problem.
# 4 simple display image module into the core
Attach image to post and display as thumbnails either at the bottom or by the side. A extremely basic module, but something that lets to manage image simply and out of the box.
# 5 simple iconize module into the core
Manage the file extension and display the corresponding icon.
# 6 A taxonomy display module into the core
Something previously noted in drupal usability reports.
User interface
A have a strange feeling with Drupal.
It is the only one CMS that lets me unable to memorize interface. Thus I always do mistakes when I navigate into the admin interface... Why ???
In my point of view because
1) My brain,
2) Drupal interface is only verticals list of fields difficult to distinguish,
3) The long debate between organize per function or per usage,
3) Too much addition of long texts supposed to be informative but that add noting to my understanding (look at the later opened page, or the title field is sufficient), but simply overload my limited brain. Most of the case, long descriptive texts should be shortened to one line.
there were huge strides in usability from 4.7 -> 5
Simplify block 'Page specific visibility settings' on /admin/build/block/configure/*
The question of how to show a block on particular vocabulary/taxonomy terms and/or node types continues to regularly appear in the help forums. Personally, my block settings never holds the custom category php when I edit the configuration and I have to look it up every time.
I think a simple pair of check lists (maybe similar to the ones used in the module, Taxonomy Theme) would make this task much easier. Not to replace the custom php, but as an extra, like the 'Role specific visibility settings'.
- similar to this backup module ?
Search results
I would like to include more information about the search results.
1. Something like
Displaying results 1 - 10 of 24 for searchkey1, searchkey2. You can see this in action at http://drupaltr.org/search/node/erdem. I am using a modified search.module. (the line below "Arama sonuçları")2. Add the above information in the watchdog log. Current implementation requires me to re-search to see if it returned any results.
I created a patch about the 1 and 2.
3. Make it possible to search for non-whole words. When I search for "erdem", I'd like to be able to see "erdemkose" in the search results. This is very important to support different languages, as an example, Turkish is a suffixed language and it uses suffixes very often (See a comparison at Turkish Wikipedia).
I am currently using a modified search.module to support 3, but I'd like to see it in core. See this in action at http://drupaltr.org/search/node/erdem - note that the 4th result (BUEditor) couldnot higlight erdem because it doesn't contain erdem as a whole word (I couldn't fix highlighting issue in my modified search.module).
Some may advise me to use a porter-stemmer but this is not what I want. Here is an article that shows porter-stemming is very hard to implement for Turkish (Search for Turkish on the page).
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://erdemkose.com/
Drupal Turkiye
Ditto for Make it possible to search for non-whole words.
I agree wholeheartedly with that. (Perhaps an "Allow search for non-whole words" option in the admin search zone would satisfy this petition?).
For some languages/people this would solve a lot of troubles as the porter-stemming thing is not always feasible and seldom implementd language by language (I am using Spanish).
Better Multisite support for images.
Multisite + Pictures - release of files directory restriction for pictures!
http://drupal.org/node/132988
less == more
I don't think it is a
I don't think it is a "small" change but it would be great if the multi-site function would allow the placement of the /files directory under /sites (either individual or all) with Drupal then passing links to the right files directory depending on site. I'm not sure if it's an Apache issue or Drupal issue, but it's what's stopping me from using the multisite feature on critical sites.
______________________
Dominik Lukes
http://www.dominiklukes.net
http://www.hermeneuticheretic.net
http://www.czechupdate.com
http://www.techwillow.com
I think you can do this now
I think you should be able to do this now, at least on an individual site basis, if you set the Download method to “private,” and specify the appropriate path. Whether this is a good idea from a security perspective, i am not sure.
I will reiterate, however, my belief expressed above (on page 1) that all user files, such as sites folder, user installed themes and modules, should exist outside the Drupal folder, so that updating Drupal to a new version does not require moving files around, etc.
Hiding blocks on certain page groups
I think this should be rather brief to implement, but I haven't delved into the core, so I could be wrong.
Currently we have a text box where we can enter strings(with wild-cards) to block the display of certain blocks on specific pages or groups of pages. My guess is that when people decide to disable blocks on certain groups of pages they use it in more than one place. My request is for a way to make this simpler(and less error prone-typos, bad patterns, etc)
Stage #1 - a few predefined choices such as all admin pages. There are lots of blocks I'd like to see when on normal pages but which serve no purpose when I am doing admin functions(examples the google-analytics and adsense)
stage #2 - make this list controllable/update-able by the admin (add/drop and modify entries)
This predefined exclude lists could either be selected by check boxes(for short lists) or maybe a multi-selection menu. The selection could either be processed when the page is submitted or maybe if done via JavaScript, the appropriate string pattern could just be inserted in the text box and then processed normally.
I hope this description makes sense.
-------------------
http://www.PrivacyDigest.com/ News from the Privacy Front
http://www.SunflowerChildren.org/ Helping children around the world
Static Export
I use drupal to author large amounts of content with a team of editors: Few people create content, many people just consume it.
I know it it may be old fashioned but to have a decent possibility to export all or parts of a drupal site to static pages would be a huge plus.
Let us keep in mind that even in Web 2.0 times not all people need to be logged in since they simply do not edit but "read" content.
Look at drupal.org as an example. It really takes seconds to only switch to a different section of the site. When I am logged in it seems to be even slower. All the dynamic stuff is nice for editing but simply kills performance. Serving static pages is a no brainer and allows to use cheap hardware. Even a lame PIII could handle thousands of requests with static pages.
There was a static export module for 4.7 (I think) called boost but I have seen nothing for 5 and I do not know plans for drupal 6.
I would vote for an "static-export-module" with some of the following options:
- define what content should be exported to static pages
- define the export folder or site (in order to have a development server and a live server)
- define export times or export rules (e.g. export all published files or export every day a 12p.m.)
I think basic features like that should be part or the drupal core.
Martin
No and yes.
You had me until you said the old chestnut "my obscure pet desire should be part of core" ;-)
No Way is this a core task.
However, I am seriously for a usable static export. For archiving and offlining, and mostly - so that our stuff will still be halfway accessible in three years time.
blogs and all are cool, but they are nowhere near as futureproof as BBS and textfiles and, um, paper have proved to be.
So I'm keen on extending Drupal content pages with both a vanilla HTML / semantic XHTML dump of pages, as well as possibly the requested page snapshot / static file cache idea.
I've started prototyping it as an adjunct to my import_html module, but haven't really taken it far.
.dan.
How to troubleshoot Drupal | http://www.coders.co.nz/
.dan. is the New Zealand Drupal Developer working on Government Web Standards
No core but basic module
I correct myself. I meant an export module that should be part of the basic distribution. ;-)
And you are right: archiving is another important topic.
I'll work on a module, too, but I guess I won't be able to finish anything reasonable untile autumn.
Martin
Internationalization - Multilingual built in support
I know there are some modules about it, but, would be great to have a built in, or default module that detects the language and acts according, and that makes easy to do and manage translations.
Leo
Already done
This is already in DRUPAL-6.
You can see the issues #128866 and #137376
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://erdemkose.com/
Drupal Turkiye
Lots of good suggestions
Starting off with the easier ones, before it becomes more and more tricky (probably, I'm a newbie so the categorization might not be totally correct...).
REALLY EASY:
1.Automatically focus the first field (username) in the log in box, when visiting the page.
2."Remember me" checkbox beneath the log in box.
3.Ability to “Add separator”s ( like this: ____ ) between a group of menu items.
4.Dries said: “I think a lot of people want to have more control about how a node is displayed. They want to control the location of the 'read more' link, the want to hide/show the username, the date, the printer-friendly links or even the taxonomy terms.”
I'll second that! One especially nasty feature is that the tags currently are styled the same way as links such as “read more”, ”Write to author”, etc. They are thus mixed in between these links. The result is both ugly and confusing! A simple workaround is to style the tags differently (preferably in a smaller font, at the top of – not beneath – the teaser). Major advantages. Minor work.
QUITE EASY:
1.Polish the Blog Information module (http://drupal.org/project/bloginfo) and make it into core. (Description of bloginfo module: “adds a blog title and description to your blogs. It is a simple module that adds 2 additional fields to the users account screen, for those who have permission, to have a blog title and blog description.”)
2.It should definitely be possible to give permissions to roles to “Edit own story content comments". Muffie also suggested this.
3.Per menu item permissions would represent a major boost in usability. If one wants restrict access to a single menu item now, one have to go through a rather obscure and clumsy process:
1. Create a new block (Site building -> Blocks -> Add block);
2. Set the right region and weigth for the new block;
3. Click “configure” and set the right permissions, and finally:
4. Move the menu item one want to set restricted permissions on to this new block.
It would be soooo much easier if one just could
1. Go to the right menu item (Site building -> Menus -> edit (to the right of the desired menu item)) and set the proper permissions directly!
2. What are you talking about. There is no step two here.
MEDIUM:
1.FabriceV had two excellent suggestions. The first one was an “automatic extend text area” that increases the text area as one are closer to the bottom.
2.The second one was to put a “Simple iconize module into the core” which would “manage the file extension and display the corresponding icon”.
HARD:
1.An admin theme that would present the administrator's menu as friendly icons, ala Joomla.
2.Ajaxifiy reordering of menu items! Should have an upward arrow and a downward arrow as well as move to top and move to bottom arrows.
3.Ajaxifiy reordering of whole menus and blocks! Should have buttons for moving it to the left, to the middle, to the right, as well as up, down, top and bottom.
4.Ajaxifying everything from submitting comments, to moving menus and blocks, searching, personal messages and basically everything else.
5.More core install profiles.
REALLY HARD #1:
Plone emulations (no I don't use Plone it do have some VERY nice features):
1.Live search (Plone has got this and it works really nice (though I guess it's resource intensive as hell)).
2.WYSIWIG editor (Plone has a beautiful one – it should almost be copied straight).
REALLY HARD #2:
An out-of-the-box social networking site (by choosing the “Community” core install) with:
1.Ajaxified personal messages;
2.Ajaxified block which shows your online buddies (showing their user icon as well their username);
3.Subscription-like feature which lets you follow the stories of your liking just by clicking an ajaxified icon positioned after or before the story headings (for instance an idle star when not following the story and a lit star when you follow the story – which one can do by clicking the idle star without worrying about page refreshes);
4.Block for showing which stories you follow (the ones with new comments at the top, in bold, with “([n] new comments)” after it). Should by default be formatted as a special kind of sticky “story” at the top of the startpage.
5.Block for showing which stories your buddies follows (only headings, and not formatted as a list, but as text, like this: Link #1 | Link #2 | Link #3, in order to show the maximum amount of stuff your buddies follow). Should also by default be formatted as a special kind of sticky “story” at the top (beneath the former mentioned block) of the startpage.
6.Button for giving props/kudos/whatever-you-wanna-call-it beneath every submitted story and comment, and a way to see who you've given props to and who you've got props form, somewhere in your own user account.
I look forward to gain enough skills to contribute, but alas it's not right now.
BTW: Nice to hear that workflow will be included in version 6 again, and I liked a lot of the other suggestions of Dries and others as well!
___________________________________
Be realistic! - Demand the impossible!
...
Since menu items are sorted by weight, then title, this feature would require the admin to assign weight to all items. That's tiresome.
A better approach would be for menu items to have a "display a separator above/bellow" property. This approach is also more correct from the "semantic" perspective. But... this feature exists already: it's already possible to assign CSS classes to individual menu items.
Why are you looking for this feature? Users are already remembered. Are you thinking of scenarios where a user might forget to click "log out" and compromise his privacy, e.g. in "Internet Cafes"?
Thanks. It's "Mooffie".
BTW, the underlying menu system in Drupal 6 allows modules to hook_menu_alter() the menus, and it'd be simple to write a module that does what you want.
It's actually not hard anymore. Thanks to the '.info' mechanism and to the new developments in the theming engine (kudos to merlinofchaos), it should not be hard to add this feature. But it's better to wait a little longer. The fact that now, or in the foreseeable future, we can use the core abilities of drupal to do this, and not do any ad-hoc programming, is a testament to the power of drupal.
I believe this is trivial. I would be surprised if no one wrote a module yet.
Really? I'm disappointed to hear this. Last time I checked, only one workflow could be associated with a node. This is very very disappointing. I believe turning Workflow into a CCK widget (for underlying numeric/string fields) would be a nicer architecture -- but I haven't invested much thought into this.
Good suggestions
Lots of really good suggestions in this post! Thanks.
I know this the second time
I know this the second time I've mentioned it on this thread (or third maybe), but this thread itself has just become the most recent example of the issue.
Try: http://drupal.org/node/141043#new
You won't get the new posts that you've not read yet, you'll get Dries' first post on the thread. Then to see the new posts, you'll have to scroll down the whole page, click "2" on the pager, then possibly scroll again.
four clicks instead of one. If you keep checking back (as many people on busy discussion sites), it becomes 8 clicks instead of two, etc. etc.
Allow Users to Choose Password at Registration
Can Ten Billion other sites be wrong? They all allow you to create your own password at registration.
This should be built into the system and not be part of another module (i.e. LoginToggan).
Having your password defined by the system and only afterwards being able to change it is guaranteed job insurance for the Help Desk and guaranteed frustration for users.
If you're going to make "Remember anonymous comment posters" part of core, this certainly should be included as well.
And for the people who think this would provide a horrible breach of security, allow "user sets own password at registration" at least as an option for those of us who have other concerns.
Drupal 5 lets users to select their own password at registration
This is already implemented in Drupal 5. You can see it on Administer > User Management > User Settings
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://erdemkose.com/
Drupal Turkiye
The Paragraph You Quoted is About Email Authentication
Up to now -- unless you can dig out some other paragraph -- if you choose Email Authentication, the user gets a password issued to him by the system (instead of being able to pick his own) as part of the initial email that goes out.
This is very bad.
All 10 billion web sites allow you to pick your own password AND do email verification. There's a reason why they all do it that way -- usability (and common sense)!
Picking own password and email verification
You can see the discussion about it.
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://erdemkose.com/
Drupal Turkiye
Bad Usability When Creating Account
Again, if you choose Email Authentication, the user gets a machine-generated password issued to him by the system.
_Only_ if you do not require Email Authentication, can users create their own password.
Can I be any more clear than this? If not, check out the ten million web sites out there which let you create your own password AND authenticate by email.
The fact that Drupal doesn't do this is a serious usability problem since it guarantees that users will never remember their passwords.
CMS usability guidelines
As a usability guy by trade I tend to follow the industry rags. This is an article that I happened across by James Robertson where he discusses 11 usability principles for CMS products. This is good stuff and can really help out Drupal with becoming more user friendly.
http://www.steptwo.com.au/papers/kmc_usabilitycms/index.html
Something to keep in mind - good usability is not about more features that can make it quicker to do things. It's actually making things easy to use in the first place - matching how people think about the item they're interacting with.
I don't code, I'm not a graphic designer, but I do design the end of the interface that users see from a structure and layout point of view - where things go and how they work as opposed to how it's coded or what it looks like.
If that's something that could be useful to the project, I'd be interested in helping out. Someone drop me a line if that's the case.
Thanks.
Tim
To help out with usability,
To help out with usability, your best bet is to submit bug reports and/or feature requests to the issue queue: http://drupal.org/node/add/project-issue with any issues you come across.
Also check out groups.drupal.org which has at least one usability group on it.
From the article
Currently Drupal does not do a good job of separating commonly used options from less commonly used options
Usually the options are dumped into a myriad of fieldsets, organized by function instead of usability.
For example, when editing a node "input format" "log message" might be far less likely to be changed than "publishing options", but they are sibling fieldsets.
Tasks fall into two main categories. "Set it once and it should be good for most nodes" (eg. input format) VS "needs to be set per node" (eg. categories)
Suggestion: conduct a usability study to see which options users change most often and hide other options in "advanced" fieldsets
Authors must not lose their content due to bugs or crashes
Suggestion: Drupal needs better multi page forms that don't forget form values between stages
Suggestion: Drupal needs a "Save as Draft" feature to better meet this usability principle
Drupal 5.1 did a great job in separating content management from site building and configuration tasks to increase usability of the system.
Currently Drupal does next to nothing to hide implementation details, and the little that Drupal does just ends up confusing users even more.
For example, the user hits "create content" to make "content", but when linking that content, the user types in, for instance, "node/33" leading them to ask what the heck is a "node".
The user creates content but links nodes, and the user navigates to "categories" to make "vocabularies", etc.
This is classic as "leaky abstraction"
The implementation details are visible, and the user needs to create mental maps "taxonomy = category" & "content = node" & "taxonomy or view or panels or node = webpage" etc.
Suggestion : The bottom line is that views, taxonomy, nodes are all powerful concepts that should form the engine that drives the above model, but users should NEVER have to know that they are there.
It is possible and necessary to make it as simple as "webpages" on a "website" and have nodes/taxonomy/views etc. drive it in the background without losing any of the current power, or flexibility!
Suggestion: Make the UI cleaner and simpler wherever possible by hiding less commonly used options
Suggestion: Make it possible to add "content" to a page, without losing track of what page you are on
Suggestion: Make more important items stand out more from less important items. Eg second-level nested fieldsets must be visually different from top-level fieldsets
"As much as possible, authors should be able to manage the 'pages' on the 'website', without having to understand any of the behind-the-scenes details."
Suggestion: The users need to be able to create a hierarchy of "webpages" which contain "content" like images or blog posts or stories or articles or events, etc.
The user could then apply "layout" and "views" to these webpages. For example, give the page a two-column layout, put all images and events that it contains to the left, and everything else to the right. Then apply the view of sorting by alphabet in the right column but sorting by weight in the left column.
Suggestion: Make it possible to "surf to edit" everything from nodes to blocks
Suggestion: Make it possible to add menu items from inside the menu
Suggestion: Make it possible to configure a block by clicking edit next to the block title
Suggestion: Make it possible to reorder stories on a page without leaving the page
Please watch my screencast for a proof of concept of some of these usability enhancements
Currently the user often has to visit a number of different admin interfaces to build a "webpage"
Eg. go make a vocabulary, term, nodes, a view that provides a block, then panels, than put the block in a panel and hope it worked (go hit reload to see what happened)
Suggestion: Turn the model on its head, so users make pages that they can give layout, and that they can categorize content into, which they can create without leaving the "page"
Suggestion: Use screen real estate better. Minimize long linear pages by putting page/form elements side by side where appropriate
Suggestion: Give stronger visual emphasis to more commonly used options
The forms API provides a pretty good method for explaining what function a particular option performs
The Drupal website and handbooks and community are an excellent resource for help
Suggestion: Work towards making handbooks smaller, not bigger
Suggestion: Look through handbooks to identify tasks that should not have to be explained i.e. could be made obvious with changes to code
Suggestion: Look through handbooks to identify tasks that the system could handle automatically
"with simple point-and-click interfaces for common tasks such as: publishing new content, managing or restructuring the site, adding and managing users, creating or updating workflows, updating security settings"
Drupal 5.1 made great strides in separating these functions
Suggestion: Make it simpler to create a hierarchical structure of webpages that content can be "categorized" into
Not pages, information!
With regard to #6 I'd like to say that while I agree with the general rule "Match authors' mental models", I do think that maybe we shouldn't try to map to the "pages on a website" model, but to the "information of a certain kind" model.
For sure, there are some situations where you need to create a hierarchical set of "pages" to most sensibly present the information at hand. This should however be restricted to those situations where it makes sense.
Why? Because you don't want to manage any site of some volume by dragging individual "pages" around in a tree structure. This is a way too limited and limiting way to manage content. Dupal's strength is in the taxonomy system and together with CCK and views that makes for one powerful combination.
The alternative I suggest is letting 'normal users' (read: content editors) pick the type of content to add ('news item', 'picture', 'press release', etc.) and let the site managers (read: developers / content managers) worry about where these items go in terms of taxonomy, templates, overall information architecture, etc.
This is pretty much the model that Drupal already takes. I can be refined, certainly, but mapping the content system to the "pages on a website" model is something I would consider a throwback.
Suggestion: a "home" module.
Many of the solutions to requests on the support forums involve implementing some hook (hook_link, hook_form_alter, hook_nodeapi, ...). But to do this the admin first have to write a skeleton of a module: an '.info' file and an empty 'mymodule.module' file.
It would be nice if Drupal already came with an empty 'home' module in the 'sites' folder. I would be enable by default, of course. (Maybe it would be possible to turn 'settings.php' into such a module?)
As a bonus, Drupal would check the 'modification time' of this module file on startup and clear the various caches if it has indeed been modified since last check. This would save the casual Drupal admin messing with the cache.
Validations!!!
It would be better if validations are provided for some common form fields ....
-- Sree --
IRC Nick: sreeveturi
Option to Disable IP Logging
It is possible to reasonably scrub a server's IP logging. It would be very helpful for Drupal to be able to use IP addresses, but have an option to not log IP addresses. That feature request is important for Indymedia sites and others to use Drupal.
Completely unrelated, I'd love to see the various profiles as nodes solutions partially moved to core, at least so that profile fields become just CCK fields. Has there been any action in this direction anywhere?
~ben, Agaric Design Collective
benjamin, Agaric
It is possible to reasonably
It is possible to reasonably scrub a server's IP logging. It would be very helpful for Drupal to be able to use IP addresses, but have an option to not log IP addresses. That feature request is important for Indymedia sites and others to use Drupal.
Why is this important? Just curious.
Completely unrelated, I'd love to see the various profiles as nodes solutions partially moved to core, at least so that profile fields become just CCK fields. Has there been any action in this direction anywhere?
That is the direction we want to go in. We got a great deal of CCK in Drupal 5, but right now, it looks like we won't have much additional CCK in Drupal 6. I'm not opposed to more CCK in Drupal 6, quite the contrary. It takes developers to make that happen, and so far, no developers stepped up to move the core-CCK forward. Help!
We can start simple. For example; we could aim to add a simple "add textfield" feature in Drupal 6. It doesn't have to be the whole thing. Small additions like that, make sure that we keep moving in the right direction and it motivates other people to help. Incremental steps are great, even if that means we're only making the smallest possible step at a time. A 10-line patch is a 10-line patch. With many small steps, we'll get there eventually. :)
Something you want to help with, Ben?
IP Logging and place to be brought up to speed on CCK-to-core?
Another feature that'd be nice to see... to have tracker indicate when there's a direct reply to your comment ;-)
Disabling IP logging is considered a basic requirement by Indymedia folks, and is a good idea for anyone taking measures to protect their users if governments seize the servers (yes, this has happened). The issue has more detail.
I would like to use the bonus time here before the freeze to help try move a little more CCK into 6. Sounds like a great introduction to core patching! Of course, I have to hope none of my clients, professors, or summer of code mentors read this... is there a good place to be brought up to speed on CCK-to-core, or should I just look at the code? We always enable CCK by default, so I'm going to have to look at what's in and what's out. I imagine if textfield is moved from CCK to core, both projects should get a patch?
~ In living, loving memory: John Melançon, 1928 - 2007 ~
benjamin, Agaric
wysiwyg, ie, external javascript editors
Hey Dries,
I want to take you up on your offer to work on an interface for external javascript editors. I'm not sure that I could create the interface, but I can try to offer input. Could there be a separate forum posting for this topic?
Add module name as HTML span class?
It's frustrating to find a module emitting markup with no easy or mnemonic way to control that markup through CSS.
Could we make it a rule that whenever a module emits markup, it wraps it in an outermost SPAN with a class that is the module's name? (I say SPAN rather than DIV because DIV could be interpretted as whitepace above and below, but SPAN can be inline or, with display set to block, just like a DIV.
hope you realize that this
hope you realize that this can be done without extra markup
you can just add an extra class to the outermost div that the module emits
we should work towards less markup... not more
besides spans are inline elements (you can display them as block and you can display divs inline, but still)
Put "Search users" with "Show only users where"
These are two separate menu items, but for an admin, they're both means to the same end: Finding a user that meets certain criteria. So, combine them.
In fact, the same logic applies wherever there is a "Show only ____ where" form item, as in "posts" -- a search box should be present because the task is the same.
(And make the search box either additive to the radio buttons, or not, at user option.)
In admin forms, always have a select all checkbox next to title
In the heading.
Spam.module has this, but not all admin forms do. But every time there are 50%+1 items in a list you want to perform an action on, it's simpler to check everything, and then uncheck what you don't want to perform the action on.
If, by adding a search box to all "Show only ____ where" form elements, retreiving items to administer is made much more precise, then such a select all check box is even more likely to be useful.
Make the core aggregator use category module categories
Why does it need its own?
Thoughts for books
I'm not a usability expert, but I find several things frustrating about the dropdown used for organizing books:
1. Very long titles make the dropdown way too long. It should truncate them, perhaps with a uniqifying number if need be and an ellipsis
2. The same chunk of content can't appear under multiple branches. If one was doing serious bookwork, that would make things like boilerplate very hard to do.
Other thoughts about books:
3. There should be an option to search within a book (put the field in with forward/back/up).
4. There should be an option to collect the links within a book, give them titles, and store them. Then the store could export a bibliogrpahy node. The store could be refreshed, and a new bibliography generated.
5. The same idea could be generalized to create a TOC, so authors could be associated with posts in a table of contents navigational page.
Out of the Box
Drupal still looks like a blog the first time it's installed. I do believe a fair number of users like to make it look like a news site with multiple information instead of a vertical series of updates. In the spirit of shortening the learning curve:
1. Include several pre-defined CCK nodes, e.g. Article with 1 picture at the top right; Two-sectioned article with a picture in the middle and center; Review article with 5 star rating at the end; Picture of the day with caption. Make these as CCK rather than as separate modules so that the user can play with them (and learn a thing or two).
2. Include a 'busy front page' view or module without resorting to Views. Rather than letting the user build it block by block, give him/her a default standard one, e.g. In main content: Static Banner (like Drupal's), Headlines/Recent Blogs, Topics in smaller blocks; in side bars: Content menu, Recent Comments, Users online, Ads. Create default primary links and footers, such as News, Blogs, Pictures, About Us. Since there is no content, the links would lead to an error page which explains something like "Content not yet created. You will need to create a page with the taxonomy 'News'"
The user thus modifies or subtracts from it without going through Views. Almost like the block configuration but this is meant to only show on the front page. You can always put a comment "For more functionalities, please use the Views module" i.e. the user cannot complaint if he doesn't like it :)
3. Include a theme which looks very 'newsy' to support the above - smaller fonts, boring hues, simple blocks, solid colors, rounded tabs. Modifiable with the color module.
Second part of suggestions:
As an admin, I would like to have a simple way to view all the configurations at once.
4. I wish there was a button to expand all the collapsed sections without going to press each arrow. (Well, I could do it with a javascript bookmarklet but it would be nice to have it there in Drupal)
5. I wish there was a way to print monospaced reports of the admin/module settings. For example, in theme configuration, instead of a ticked box next to "Mission Statement", the print page would state "Mission Statement - Enabled". CSS perhaps?
The least it could be done is to the log page. I don't care for the fancy table and cell colors. Wish I could have a boring courier font print out - much easier to read (Well, can be done in SQL but nicer if it was in Drupal).
6. I do realise no. 5 might warrant more than a small adjustment, possibly a major module (but really?), but if somebody is already making one, I would like to add another wish - have all the settings from every module, every taxonomy, every user type, every CCK node and ...., every theme choices, etc. all printed on one page. It would be so much simpler to debug the site.
Finally, I'm supporting any attempt to make weights easier to manage, to menu and everything else. Doesn't have to be AJAXified, just a two-column table with a column of text entry boxes to be filled with any numbers, including negatives and decimals (how to slot between -101 and -100? make it -100.5!) - that would help tremendously.
The first part sounds like an 'installation profile'
Isn't the first part of your post, zhzrj, covered by an installation profile? Something like 'Drupal for news sites"? (or something like that).
Just wondering myself.
Yeah, it does
Thanks for the heads up, gusgsm1, somehow I missed that feature in D5 and didn't realise that there are already some profiles in the download sections. None yet for a news site it seems. Since Boris Mann above has started a couple for D6, I wish to propose a 'news site' to his queue.
2. Include a 'busy front
2. Include a 'busy front page' view or module without resorting to Views. Rather than letting the user build it block by block, give him/her a default standard one, e.g.
I agree. The underlying problem that we need to solve, IMO, is to make it easier to build complex layouts (and complex main pages in particular). Drupal always looks like a blog or news website, unless you get your hands dirty with code. I'm hoping that the book module updates I talked about will help us move away a bit from blogs / news websites (without affecting the Drupal blogs / news websites).
A logical next step, after the book module updates, would be to get better at shuffling blocks and content around. So, yes, I agree wholeheartedly. Feel free to help work on that. Not a small suggestion though. ;-)
What about Panels?
I don't know how efficiently the panels module works (and this is no minor change, I'm sure) but what if panels was inserted in core, and used to place all menus, blocks, and content on a page, rather than setting up regions in themes as is the current method? The advantage would be that front page layout could easily vary from other pages and users could pick from a selection of several layouts without touching a single line of theme code.
(joomla uses a similar paradigm to great effect)
A less ambitious change would be for Drupal core to increase the number of default regions available to themes (just to eliminate the need for an override in template.php) This would at least make it more flexible when placing primary menus and blocks. (for instance, a theme would allow the primary menu to be placed above or below the site banner, simply by choosing the region on the blocks page)
On a somewhat unrelated issue, how easy is it to expand the color module so that future themes could tap into its power for choosing all the colors in a theme? Garland was a great start but it doesn't allow enough color choices to truly be useful.
Uncoventional "blog", and coded Read More
Don't fool individual bloggers into starting collective blogs
In Drupal, "Blog" should be used when you want a blog where several authors can contribute. If you are the only one blogging on your site, you are supposed to use "Story". This countra-intutive naming is missed by a lot of individual bloggers, who end up having a duplicate My name-blog on their site.
A change of wording, or a visible warning text should fix this problem.
Read more-break
In order to control what part of a long text that goes to the front page, the user has to enter a html comment into the text. A more user friendly way to control this would be great.
For example, kan additional text entry field for the part of the text that are only to be shown on the node page.
(I'm using Drupal 4, so these issues maybe alredy are fixed in 5.)
The blogging issue is even
The blogging issue is even more problematic. Many users don't understand how to get a blog on the same topic started. It would be nice if the blog.module allowed users to actually start a blog (like a mini Wordpress) to which they could invite other people and they themselves could then have multiple blogs. I know that this could probably be simulated by Organic Groups but this is hard if you already use OG for other things.
______________________
Dominik Lukes
http://www.dominiklukes.net
http://www.hermeneuticheretic.net
http://www.czechupdate.com
http://www.techwillow.com
Flamebait.
I'm going to be skinned alive for saying this, but can we please get some sort of core asset management in place? This is a real sticky issue for a lot of people, and in terms of adoption rates, I personally think this can be filed (albeit loosely) under "usability".
Pages